NationStates

Ethel mermania wrote:
That answers the second part of my question, what about the first?

I don't know why you would expect an answer. How would we know that?

Obviously we can't observe Christ's DNA, but He is 100% human so I would surmise that it would appear to be completely normal human material. His Divinity is not really something we can make assumptions on, being something completely transcendent and all.

Ethel mermania wrote:

Sundiata wrote:So Jesus is fully human and fully divine.

The Council of Chalceon when the Christian Church in its Orthodox teaching gathered and said this, "Jesus is the hypostatic union of two natures in one person." Therefore, no to nestorianism, arianism, and apollinanianism. That's the basis for so much of what Christians think.

Jesus doesn't stop being God nor is his humanity altered. From this teaching we get the basis for all of Christian spirituality, moral, and social teaching.

We are most ourselves not when we try to resist God, try to become God, but when we surrender to God.

That's why St. Iranaeus said "The glory of God is a human being fully alive." That's it, that's the Chalcedonian Christology.

That answers the second part of my question, what about the first?

He's fully human and fully Devine. Much as I enjoyed Michael Cordy's spy thriller, I doubt if we found Christ's actual DNA, that it'd show anything out of the ordinary. Divinity and Humanity are quantification of Essences and Hypostasis. They're not tangible qualities that can he measured scientifically.

Tarsonis wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:
That answers the second part of my question, what about the first?

He's fully human and fully Devine. Much as I enjoyed Michael Cordy's spy thriller, I doubt if we found Christ's actual DNA, that it'd show anything out of the ordinary. Divinity and Humanity are quantification of Essences and Hypostasis. They're not tangible qualities that can he measured scientifically.

This seems like hedging. I bet if we found Christ's DNA, and it was full of weird anomalies, Christians would never shut up about it.

Nakena wrote:
His name was Yaweh.

There. Done.

The name of God "Yahweh" means that God contains in himself the reason for his own existence. God is the non-contingent basis for contingency. His essence and material being aren't ordered by anything but himself. God is not surrounded extrinsically or intrinsically by any causes that usher him into being. In religious language, he is the creator of heavens and the earth.

That's the distinction between God and anything in the world, between the supernatural and anything in nature.

That's what God means when he says so concisely to Moses that his name is Yahweh or "I Am that I Am."

Neanderthaland wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
He's fully human and fully Devine. Much as I enjoyed Michael Cordy's spy thriller, I doubt if we found Christ's actual DNA, that it'd show anything out of the ordinary. Divinity and Humanity are quantification of Essences and Hypostasis. They're not tangible qualities that can he measured scientifically.

This seems like hedging. I bet if we found Christ's DNA, and it was full of weird anomalies, Christians would never shut up about it.

Catholics wouldn't for sure. Protestants would be mad at us for never shutting up a bout it, but that's just cause they jelly we know the blood type of Christ is AB and all our sacred objects confirm that.

Neanderthaland wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
He's fully human and fully Devine. Much as I enjoyed Michael Cordy's spy thriller, I doubt if we found Christ's actual DNA, that it'd show anything out of the ordinary. Divinity and Humanity are quantification of Essences and Hypostasis. They're not tangible qualities that can he measured scientifically.

This seems like hedging. I bet if we found Christ's DNA, and it was full of weird anomalies, Christians would never shut up about it.

Well based on the Shroud of Turin, He was 5'11" and had AB+ blood. As far as His genome? I imagine it was a human's genome.

Luminesa wrote:

Neanderthaland wrote:This seems like hedging. I bet if we found Christ's DNA, and it was full of weird anomalies, Christians would never shut up about it.

Well based on the Shroud of Turin, He was 5'11" and had AB+ blood. As far as His genome? I imagine it was a human's genome.

I'm sure that would be relevant if Jesus died a thousand years later, when people used herringbone weaves to create shrouds that carbon date to that period.

God's essence and his existence are one in the same: himself.

Doesn't that nature make you joyous about the extent to which he loves you? It's sad that it's fully inconceivable in this life but that nature is still something to be excited about, right?

Aren't you guys awe-stricken by that?

Neanderthaland wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
He's fully human and fully Devine. Much as I enjoyed Michael Cordy's spy thriller, I doubt if we found Christ's actual DNA, that it'd show anything out of the ordinary. Divinity and Humanity are quantification of Essences and Hypostasis. They're not tangible qualities that can he measured scientifically.

This seems like hedging. I bet if we found Christ's DNA, and it was full of weird anomalies, Christians would never shut up about it.

I don't know why you'd think that.

Our understanding of Christ necessitates Him being 100% human. As it says in Scriptures, Christ was the same as us in all ways, except He was without sin.

Salus Maior wrote:

Neanderthaland wrote:This seems like hedging. I bet if we found Christ's DNA, and it was full of weird anomalies, Christians would never shut up about it.

I don't know why you'd think that.

Our understanding of Christ necessitates Him being 100% human. As it says in Scriptures, Christ was the same as us in all ways, except He was without sin.

You think that Christians would take near-proof of Jesus Christ's divinity as proof that their religion is wrong?

Somehow I don't see that happening.

Does anyone here believe that for someone to be a good Christian and purify themselves, it may be necessary to take a retreat or a spiritual journey of sorts out from society and into nature for a little while?

Neanderthaland wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
I don't know why you'd think that.

Our understanding of Christ necessitates Him being 100% human. As it says in Scriptures, Christ was the same as us in all ways, except He was without sin.

You think that Christians would take near-proof of Jesus Christ's divinity as proof that their religion is wrong?

Somehow I don't see that happening.

Him having hypothetical genetic abnormalities wouldn't necessarily mean divinity.

Sure, some people would think that. And probably most people would just say that these abnormalities would have been caused by something unknown but not supernatural, like any natural phenomena. Which honestly I would also say.

Because Divinity doesn't work that way. It's transcendent and immaterial.

Salus Maior wrote:

Neanderthaland wrote:This seems like hedging. I bet if we found Christ's DNA, and it was full of weird anomalies, Christians would never shut up about it.

I don't know why you'd think that.

Our understanding of Christ necessitates Him being 100% human. As it says in Scriptures, Christ was the same as us in all ways, except He was without sin.

Not to sound star-struck or shallow again but can you blame me? Jesus is not just a perfect human, he is perfection itself. His way of being is not just a big deal, it's the biggest deal there could possibly be. I can't help but be overwhelmed every time we approach the topic of Christ.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Does anyone here believe that for someone to be a good Christian and purify themselves, it may be necessary to take a retreat or a spiritual journey of sorts out from society and into nature for a little while?

Yes, I'm actually going on one very soon.

Sundiata wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
I don't know why you'd think that.

Our understanding of Christ necessitates Him being 100% human. As it says in Scriptures, Christ was the same as us in all ways, except He was without sin.

Not to sound star-struck or shallow again but can you blame me? Jesus is not just a perfect human, he is perfection itself. His way of being is not just a big deal, that's the biggest deal that there could possibly be. I can't help but be overwhelmed every time we approach the topic of Christ.

Well, yeah, He's God.

You know it's a stereotype among some that God chose the most pious and righteous people to speak to, but it actually would make sense if he chose the opposite. If you have a man who's strayed from the path and is lost, divine revelation may be the key to saving him.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Does anyone here believe that for someone to be a good Christian and purify themselves, it may be necessary to take a retreat or a spiritual journey of sorts out from society and into nature for a little while?

From what I've been told by a Benedictine, he became a monk because he felt that it was the best way for him to have a relationship with Christ.

So, for some people I suppose "leaving society" is something people do to become better Christians. I also find going off by myself and being in nature as very helpful for my spiritual health.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:You know it's a stereotype among some that God chose the most pious and righteous people to speak to, but it actually would make sense if he chose the opposite. If you have a man who's strayed from the path and is lost, divine revelation may be the key to saving him.

Those are the people God chose to use. Paul would be one.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:You know it's a stereotype among some that God chose the most pious and righteous people to speak to, but it actually would make sense if he chose the opposite. If you have a man who's strayed from the path and is lost, divine revelation may be the key to saving him.

God literally chose one of the most fallible and often weak men in the Bible to be the "Rock of the Church". St. Peter is incredibly human.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:You know it's a stereotype among some that God chose the most pious and righteous people to speak to, but it actually would make sense if he chose the opposite. If you have a man who's strayed from the path and is lost, divine revelation may be the key to saving him.

In a conventional sense, some of the apostles were at times really bad guys. Jesus Christ still chose them to found the church. Seriously, look into the life of Saint Peter, the first Pope. He publicly denied all knowledge of Jesus Christ three times even after he saw Jesus perform miracles in front of his face.

Yeah, the first Pope lied about Jesus and Jesus forgave him.

Sundiata wrote:

Nakena wrote:
His name was Yaweh.

There. Done.

The name of God "Yahweh" means that God contains in himself the reason for his own existence. God is the non-contingent basis for contingency. His essence and material being aren't ordered by anything but himself. God is not surrounded extrinsically or intrinsically by any causes that usher him into being. In religious language, he is the creator of heavens and the earth.

That's the distinction between God and anything in the world, between the supernatural and anything in nature.

That's what God means when he says so concisely to Abraham that his name is Yahweh or "I Am that I Am."

I believe you're mistaken, and have repeated the mistake more than once.

Yahweh does not mean 'I Am that I Am'.

He says 'Ehyeh asher ehyeh' or 'I Am who I Am' to Moses when prompted on who he is.

He never said it to Abraham.

Baldwin Park wrote:

Sundiata wrote:The name of God "Yahweh" means that God contains in himself the reason for his own existence. God is the non-contingent basis for contingency. His essence and material being aren't ordered by anything but himself. God is not surrounded extrinsically or intrinsically by any causes that usher him into being. In religious language, he is the creator of heavens and the earth.

That's the distinction between God and anything in the world, between the supernatural and anything in nature.

That's what God means when he says so concisely to Abraham that his name is Yahweh or "I Am that I Am."

I believe you're mistaken, and have repeated the mistake more than once.

Yahweh does not mean 'I Am that I Am'.

He says 'Ehyeh asher ehyeh' or 'I Am who I Am' to Moses when prompted on who he is.

He never said it to Abraham.

That Abraham thing was a pretty big mistake, thank you correcting me on the prophets. Not Abraham, Moses. I can't believe I've been saying Abraham this whole time.

Still, God nonetheless revealed his nature to Moses by telling him his name. "Ehyeh asher ehyeh" is how God referred to himself in the first person, "Yahweh asher Yahweh" is how Moses referred to God in the third person. "Yahweh," the english translation from Hebrew, is the shortened form of God's name in the third person.

Sundiata wrote:

Baldwin Park wrote:
I believe you're mistaken, and have repeated the mistake more than once.

Yahweh does not mean 'I Am that I Am'.

He says 'Ehyeh asher ehyeh' or 'I Am who I Am' to Moses when prompted on who he is.

He never said it to Abraham.

That was a pretty big mistake, thank you correcting me on the prophets. Not Abraham, Moses. I can't believe I've been saying Abraham this whole time.

Still, God nonetheless revealed his nature to Moses by telling him his name. "Ehyeh asher ehyeh" is how God referred to himself in the first person, "Yahweh asher Yahweh" is how Moses referred to God in the third person. "Yahweh," the english translation from Hebrew, is the shortened form of God's name in the third person.

Ok. You make a good point regardless.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:You know it's a stereotype among some that God chose the most pious and righteous people to speak to, but it actually would make sense if he chose the opposite. If you have a man who's strayed from the path and is lost, divine revelation may be the key to saving him.

This happens a lot more than you think. A short list:
St. Peter
St. Dismus (The Penitent Thief)
St. Mary Magdalene (Incorrectly stated to be the adulteress of John 8, actually suffered demonic obsession before following Jesus.)
Kings David and Solomon (Notorious womanizers, still God’s chosen kings.)
All of the Apostles (except Judas)
St. Paul (Murdered Christians before his conversion)
Charlemagne (Not a canonized Saint but an enormous force for Christianity in the “Dark Ages”, could hardly read.)
St. Mary of Egypt (Lived a very troubled life before becoming a hermitess in the Egyptian desert.)
St. Jerome (Had a temper and was a curmudgeon to basically everyone, still considered THE premier Biblical translator.)
St. Augustine (Also a hot-head, had several extramarital relationships, left a cult, caused his mother grief almost her entire life.)
St. Ignatius of Loyola (A soldier and a playboy whose life was turned around after his leg was crippled in battle. Founded the Jesuit order.)
Raphael, Botticelli, Michelangelo, Leonardo di Vinci (All Renaissance artists who created gorgeous imagery of Christ and the Madonna, all who lived extravagant or unhappy lives-especially Raphael, who died in his 20’s of what was most likely an STD.)
St. Margaret of Cortona (Had extramarital relationships and a troubled childhood/young adult life, dedicated her life to God)
Alessandro Serenelli (The almost-rapist and murderer of St. Maria Goretti, who had a major conversion experience in prison, became a brother, and lived to see St. Maria canonized.)

Luminesa wrote:Alessandro Serenelli (The almost-rapist and murderer of St. Maria Goretti, who had a major conversion experience in prison, became a brother, and lived to see St. Maria canonized.)

I've got to honestly say that was one of the nastiest stories I've read in a long time. I have no idea how God's compassion can be so infinite that he loves all human beings. That was just sick.

I have nothing nice to say about Alessandro Serenelli so I will not say anything at all.

As mentioned yesterday, today, Laetare Sunday, sees a Papal Mass celebrating the fifth centenary of Philippine Christendom. This is one of several links to the livestream of said Mass.