NATION

PASSWORD

Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your denomination?

Roman Catholic
263
38%
Eastern Orthodox
47
7%
Non-Chalcedonian (Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, etc.)
6
1%
Anglican/Episcopalian
35
5%
Lutheran or Reformed (including Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc.)
71
10%
Methodist
16
2%
Baptist
66
9%
Other Evangelical Protestant (Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.)
62
9%
Restorationist (LDS Movement, Jehovah's Witness, etc.)
32
5%
Other Christian
97
14%
 
Total votes : 695

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:59 pm

Lost Memories wrote:The main point here is, catholics (and all christians) in the united states, having their faith corrupted, by national politics, and/or by the need to conform to their historical oppressors, to avoid the pressure of social stigma. By conforming to people and values which are un-christian, if not even anti-christian.
That's a difficult balance we're walking in every situation. It's why we've got to put our best foot forward on these issues. There's our local parishes and then there's the world. When I attend mass I never want to leave. But at the end of the day, we've got to put our coats back on and walk. When we face the world we've got to show people what we're willing to do every single day. Ordinary tasks can go a long way.

An alternative explaination to the Stockholm syndrome, is that part of the catholics in america are converts.
And those converts still retain their same old political allegiance, totally unchanged, on both political sides, and they would rather fit their new catholic faith around their old political positions, which distorts their faith, rather than re-evalue their politics from the new point of view their faith gives them.
Not like there is a way to solve that, since catholicism isn't compatible with the limited prepackaged presets american political choices.
Catholics that belong to both sides of the aisle have got to affirm each other's humanity. Now, I am a Democrat. I had a Catholic friend who was a Republican during the past presidential election. We agreed on a lot of policy after we sat down and examined possible solutions to the problems of our country.

To him, it didn't matter that we prayed in the same church on Sunday. For a good while, he was very angry with me. It wasn't the best way to reach someone, so after a tense conversation we got to the subject of personal sins and I did not judge him for a moment. That's the ticket, the imitation of Christ. That isn't to say that I don't get mad at people or get into heated exchanges, the difference is that I've learned when to embrace people.

There's a lot of men and women out there who never got to know Christ very closely. They've been judged by others including their fellow Catholics for their whole lives. That's got to stop. That's why we've got to put the Christ back into Christianity because if we don't, we're going to have a very poor church.

In case this is even needed, I am not talking specifically about the people using this forum, this is more of an observation and conclusion from: observing various reactions and discussions over different sites, and from looking at what the media usually seem to focus on more.
And well, yeah, obviously the internet isn't very representative of reality, most of the times. You tell me, how far or close I got, to your living experience of the reality in the United States of America.
The search for truth always starts from ignorance, it's normal and not ashaming to make mistakes.[/spoiler]


Well, my real experience with the church has been positive; it's now the best part of my life.

Before I got involved with Opus Dei I was spending so much time trying to solve questions that can only be answered through living. I would test the limits of love because I did not feel its boundaries. I would waste time because I didn't know how limited it was, how every second is an opportunity. I ignored the freedom I had because I never saw the gift that it was. Still, I fall into certain errors at times

The first Catholics I met were excited to discuss Aquinas and Distributism. But what really preserved my interest in the faith was its beauty. The stories of its martyrs, the history, and the beauty of its practice. I later met a woman who deeply knew the way of Christ and her virtue spoke for itself. Since then, she chose the religious life. But she was the one who directed me to St. Josemaria Escriva and the personal prelature of Opus Dei.
Last edited by Sundiata on Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Lost Memories
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Postby Lost Memories » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:01 pm

@Sundiata
I've reread your reply multiple times, and I'm not very sure I get how the reply connects to the quoted parts.
It's like, ok, reasonable, but how does that follow from the premise?
As if I said, "A + B = C, how right/wrong is that?" and the reply is "F / A = Y + X, makes me feel cozy", what about the relationship between A B C ?
(also, the final part felt like an opus dei advertising)

There were quite a lot of topics condensed into that single post, and connected together.
So it's also understandable it may be a mess to untie that big post.

topics:

american post-protestant social transformation (decades long)
|
american political divide tensions --- (limitations of the american political system)
|
party A and party B, opposed to each other <--- (historical aggressors of catholicism) --- (anti-catholicism)
|
(odd bond of submission or mingle)
|
catholics in america --- (politicization of the faith)
|
christianity/catholicism can't be reduced to a party

Then some questions, assuming that structure actually describes reality. But does it?


Anyway, thanks for the input.
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

hmag

pagan american empireLiberalism is a LieWhat is Hell

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

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Lost Memories
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Postby Lost Memories » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:00 pm

For today's little corner of catholic catechism.

The 4 Cardinal Virtues.
Human virtues are firm attitudes, stable dispositions, habitual perfections of intellect and will that govern our actions, order our passions, and guide our conduct according to reason and faith. They make possible ease, self-mastery, and joy in leading a morally good life. the virtuous man is he who freely practices the good.
The moral virtues are acquired by human effort. They are the fruit and seed of morally good acts; they dispose all the powers of the human being for communion with divine love.

Four virtues play a pivotal role and accordingly are called "cardinal"; all the others are grouped around them. They are: prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance.

Justice
Justice is the moral virtue that consists in the constant and firm will to give their due to God and neighbor. Justice toward God is called the "virtue of religion." Justice toward men disposes one to respect the rights of each and to establish in human relationships the harmony that promotes equity with regard to persons and to the common good. the just man, often mentioned in the Sacred Scriptures, is distinguished by habitual right thinking and the uprightness of his conduct toward his neighbor. "You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor."68 "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

hmag

pagan american empireLiberalism is a LieWhat is Hell

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
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Postby Sundiata » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:20 pm

If I weren't working so much I'd respond more substantively, it's on me. Your post is fine.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:24 am

so I finally got around to watching hail Ceasar! and it turns out they dipped into this thread for help on their script :p


https://youtu.be/KJEiDRi4Itc
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:16 am

Tarsonis wrote:so I finally got around to watching hail Ceasar! and it turns out they dipped into this thread for help on their script :p


https://youtu.be/KJEiDRi4Itc

Should I watch it?
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:20 am

Today on the Catholic calendar is the feast of St. Agnes, virgin and martyr, one of the martyrs mentioned specifically in the Litany of Saints during Masses. Pure and gentle, yet brave against wicked men, she died defending her virtue and defending the God she loved. As we move to an uncertain future, let us ask her to pray for us, that in darkness we may always have hope in Christ.
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faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:02 am

Sundiata wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:so I finally got around to watching hail Ceasar! and it turns out they dipped into this thread for help on their script :p


https://youtu.be/KJEiDRi4Itc

Should I watch it?


you're not gonna turn into a pillar of salt if you do.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:22 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Should I watch it?


you're not gonna turn into a pillar of salt if you do.

Thank you, haha.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:46 am

Tarsonis wrote:so I finally got around to watching hail Ceasar! and it turns out they dipped into this thread for help on their script :p


https://youtu.be/KJEiDRi4Itc


I enjoyed the film immensely, but I watched it in Dubai while working on a museum project there a few years ago - and they cut that scene. It wasn't until a couple of years later when I watched it again with my wife back in the UK that I realised what I'd missed.

And it was the only scene cut by the UAE censor. God only knows why. Because there was no imam? Because there was a rabbi? Because there was no imam but there was a rabbi? Because everyone there - including the rabbi - accepted the crucifixion, which is rejected by Islam?

You do have to wonder about the motivations of the UAE censor when he/they left one of the most brilliantly camp scenes in recent film history stay. Perhaps all the gay references went over their heads?
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:48 am

Tarsonis wrote:so I finally got around to watching hail Ceasar! and it turns out they dipped into this thread for help on their script :p


https://youtu.be/KJEiDRi4Itc


Interesting, I remember watching it when it released in theaters and feeling a bit disappointed. I just thought it didn't stand up to the content of other Coen Brothers works, but perhaps I oughta rewatch it and understand it better contextually.

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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:34 pm

Hail, Caesar! is a brilliant film, but the scene with the Orthodox patriarch, the (presumably) Catholic priest and the Protestant (I'd guess Baptist?) reverend all talking about theology without arguing with one another at all was quite unrealistic :p

Although, I suppose that they were discussing basic trinitarian theology, which is one of the few areas where most major Christian denominations are more or less in agreement owing to it being hashed out fairly early in the church's history- the christological spats with the Oriental Orthodox and the Church of the East notwithstanding.
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Lost Memories
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Postby Lost Memories » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:36 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:I enjoyed the film immensely, but I watched it in Dubai while working on a museum project there a few years ago - and they cut that scene. It wasn't until a couple of years later when I watched it again with my wife back in the UK that I realised what I'd missed.

And it was the only scene cut by the UAE censor. God only knows why. Because there was no imam? Because there was a rabbi? Because there was no imam but there was a rabbi? Because everyone there - including the rabbi - accepted the crucifixion, which is rejected by Islam?

My guess would be because of naming Jesus the Son of God. Also talking about the Trinity.
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

hmag

pagan american empireLiberalism is a LieWhat is Hell

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

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Suriyanakhon
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Postby Suriyanakhon » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:38 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Should I watch it?


you're not gonna turn into a pillar of salt if you do.


I hope you realize he's going to be extremely salty if you're wrong.

I'll see myself out now.
Last edited by Suriyanakhon on Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lost Memories
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Postby Lost Memories » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:39 pm

For the little corner of catholic catechism.

The 4 Cardinal Virtues.
Prudence
Prudence is the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it; "the prudent man looks where he is going." "Keep sane and sober for your prayers." Prudence is "right reason in action," writes St. Thomas Aquinas, following Aristotle. It is not to be confused with timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the charioteer of the virtues); it guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure. It is prudence that immediately guides the judgment of conscience. the prudent man determines and directs his conduct in accordance with this judgment. With the help of this virtue we apply moral principles to particular cases without error and overcome doubts about the good to achieve and the evil to avoid.

To live well is nothing other than to love God with all one's heart, with all one's soul and with all one's efforts; from this it comes about that love is kept whole and uncorrupted (through temperance). No misfortune can disturb it (and this is fortitude). It obeys only (God) (and this is justice), and is careful in discerning things, so as not to be surprised by deceit or trickery (and this is prudence).
-St. Augustine, De moribus, eccl. 1, chapter 25, part 46: PL 32, 1330-1331.



De moribus ecclesiae catholicae et de moribus Manichaeorum (On the Morals of the Catholic Church and on the Morals of the Manichaeans)
Chapter 15.— The Christian Definition of the Four Virtues

25. As to virtue leading us to a happy life, I hold virtue to be nothing else than perfect love of God.
For the fourfold division of virtue I regard as taken from four forms of love. For these four virtues, I should have no hesitation in defining them: that temperance is love giving itself entirely to that which is loved; fortitude is love readily bearing all things for the sake of the loved object; justice is love serving only the loved object, and therefore ruling rightly; prudence is love distinguishing with sagacity between what hinders it and what helps it.
The object of this love is not anything, but only God, the chief good, the highest wisdom, the perfect harmony. So we may express the definition thus: that temperance is love keeping itself entire and incorrupt for God; fortitude is love bearing everything readily for the sake of God; justice is love serving God only, and therefore ruling well all else, as subject to man; prudence is love making a right distinction between what helps it towards God and what might hinder it.
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

hmag

pagan american empireLiberalism is a LieWhat is Hell

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

User avatar
Sundiata
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Posts: 9755
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:18 pm

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
you're not gonna turn into a pillar of salt if you do.


I hope you realize he's going to be extremely salty if you're wrong.

I'll see myself out now.

Witty. :p
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Lost Memories
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Postby Lost Memories » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:48 am

Pope Francis recognizes heroic virtues of pioneering French geneticist Jerome Lejeune
Pope Francis recognized on Thursday the heroic virtues of Jérôme Lejeune, the French geneticist who discovered the extra chromosome that causes Down syndrome.

Lejeune was born on June 13, 1926, in Montrouge, in the southern Parisian suburbs. In 1958, he deduced that Down syndrome was caused by an extra copy of chromosome 21.
He dedicated the rest of his life to researching treatments to improve the lives of people with Down syndrome.
He firmly opposed the use of prenatal testing to identify unborn children with Down syndrome and other chromosomal abnormalities for abortion.

When he received the prestigious William Allan Award for his work in genetics in 1969, he gave an impassioned speech opposing abortion.
“For millennia, medicine has striven to fight for life and health and against disease and death. Any reversal of the order of these terms of reference would entirely change medicine itself,” he said.
“It happens that nature does condemn. Our duty has always been not to inflict the sentence but to try to commute the pain. In any foreseeable genetical trial I do not know enough to judge, but I feel enough to advocate.”
After the speech, which received a cool reception, he reportedly told his wife: “Today, I lost my Nobel Prize in medicine.”


Promulgation of Decrees of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, 21.01.2021

On 21 January 2021, the Holy Father Francis received in audience His Eminence Cardinal Marcello Semeraro, prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints. During the audience, the Supreme Pontiff authorised the same Congregation to promulgate the Decrees regarding:

The martyrdom of the Servant of God Giovanni Fornasini, diocesan priest; born on 23 February 1915 in Pianaccio di Lizzano in Belvedere, Italy, and killed in hatred of the faith in San Martino di Caprara, Italy, on 13 October 1944;

- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Michele Arcangelo Maria Antonio Vinti, diocesan priest; born on 18 January 1893 in Grotte, Italy, and died there on 17 August 1943;

- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Ruggero Maria Caputo, diocesan priest; born on 1 May 1907 in Barletta, Italy, and died there on 15 June 1980;

- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Mary Josephine of Jesus (née Elizabeth Prout), founder of the Congregation of the Sisters of the Holy Cross and of the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ; born on 2 September 1820 in Shrewsbury, England, and died in Sutton, England on 11 January 1864;

- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Santiago Masarnau Fernández, lay faithful; born on 10 December 1805 in Madrid, Spain, and died there on 14 December 1882;

- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Pasquale Canzii, seminarian; born on 6 November 1914 in Bisenti, Italy, and died in Penne, Italy on 24 January 1930;

- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Jérôme Lejeune, lay faithful; born on 13 June 1926 in Montrouge, France, and died in Paris, France, on 3 April 1994;

- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Adele Bonolis, lay faithful, founder of the Works of Assistance and Social Redemption; born on 14 August 1909 in Milan, Italy, and died there on 11 August 1980.


For the details of other seven declared servants of God, which the media doesn't seem to have focused on as much, there is a detailed report on the site of the Congregation of the causes for the Saints, but that site seems to be only in italian.
http://www.causesanti.va/it/archivio-de ... -2021.html
Autotranslated with google.
the martyrdom of the Servant of God Giovanni Fornasini , diocesan priest; born on 23 February 1915 in Pianaccio di Lizzano in Belvedere (Italy) and killed, out of hatred for the Faith, in San Martino di Caprara (Italy), on 13 October 1944.

Regarding the formal martyrdom ex parte persecutoris, one must take into account the complex framework created in Italy after the Armistice of 8 September 1943 and the consequent war retaliations. The partisan actions against the Germans unleashed ferocious Nazi reprisals against the population. After the massacres that took place on Monte Sole, the Servant of God had done his utmost in intense mediation activity to avoid further bloodshed among civilians. Both for his role as mediator and for the attention to the customs of the population, Don Fornasini was perceived as an uncomfortable presence for the German authority, which perceived him as an obstacle to his evil prestige, for which the odium fidei was the overriding reason for the killing. His assassination was motivated by a specific aversion to the ministry.


- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Michael the Archangel Maria Antonio Vinti , diocesan priest; born on 18 January 1893 in Grotte (Italy) and died there on 17 August 1943.

With regard to the heroic exercise of charity towards God, his writings reveal the intensity of his love for the Lord, which was expressed above all in the constant search for perfection. The way of living the priestly ministry manifests his love for God: in preaching, in administering the sacrament of reconciliation, in promoting prayer to lead everyone to the love of God. Concerning charity towards neighbor, the Servant of God showed constantly the will to put the good of his faithful before any personal interest. Although living in hardship, he also deprived himself of the little he had in order to meet the needs of the poorest. He also tried to generously take care of the sick, whom he regularly visited. He often showed up at the bedside of the most serious ones without being called,often succeeding in confessing them and giving them the anointing of the sick. Above all, at the confessional, he was available, maintaining a welcoming, affable and smiling manner.


- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Ruggero Maria Caputo , diocesan priest; born on 1 May 1907 in Barletta (Italy) and died there on 15 June 1980.

The Servant of God was distinguished by a great and profound faith, learned from childhood, and always lived according to this virtue. Faith for him was the foundation of all life and of every activity. At the center of his interior life there was always Christ. From the Eucharist he drew the strength to serve with love without measure every member of the local Church. He had a deep devotion to the Madonna. The dynamics of faith led him to teach and preach the Christian message to others, in particular he was concerned with transmitting the teaching of Christian doctrine to young people.


- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Maria Giuseppa di Gesù (born Elisabetta Prout ), Foundress of the Congregation of the Sisters of the Holy Cross of the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ; born on 2 September 1820 in Shrewsbury (England) and died in Sutton (England) on 11 January 1864.

The Servant of God, from her youth, manifested heroic faith on many occasions in her life. She lived with profound trust and humility both the insertion into the community of the Sisters of the Child Jesus and the forced return to the family because of the illness. Heroic faith sustained her even when she was confronted with the disapproval of her Anglican mother, who hindered her sacramental life. He agreed to leave his family and embrace a situation of total uncertainty and economic precariousness in order to remain faithful to the choice of Catholicism. He knew how to read as a sign of divine Providence the proposal to start a Religious Institute at the service of the marginalized.

The virtue of hope, exercised to a heroic degree, was the guide of the existence of the Servant of God. She pursued the desire for religious consecration, overcoming illness, the unknown of the future and the internal difficulties of the Congregation. The hope was also visible in the courage with which she made some decisions, such as that of abandoning her father's house to remain faithful to his Catholic faith. In particular, heroic hope was shown in the events that marked the life of the Congregation due to the bad administration of a nun and which led the Servant of God to beg for alms to pay off the debts that weighed on the Institute.

The profound charity was also manifested in her capacity for forgiveness. She had a delicate charity towards her sisters, with which she was always attentive and caring. Her charity was revealed above all in the dedication she nurtured towards young women of the poorer classes, despite the fact that she came from a middle-class family. She not only tried to put herself at the service of the poor, but she wanted to be one of them. She knew how to understand the needs of the most unfortunate young women, courageously designing residences, homes, in which they could be hosted for free and protected while they worked in the factory, trying to ensure them also a human and Christian formation.


- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God James Masarnau Fernández , Faithful Layman; born on 10 December 1805 in Madrid (Spain) and died there on 14 December 1882.

The Servant of God Giacomo Masarnau Fernández was born in Madrid (Spain) on 10 December 1805, into a wealthy and deeply Christian family. Since his father was a court official, the Servant of God, in the first years of his life, moved with his family to various Spanish cities. During this period, showing an early aptitude for music, he was initiated to an adequate training in this area.

In 1843, he returned to Madrid, becoming Deputy Director and Professor of Music in the college founded by his brother. Humbly and silently he began Vincentian's mission in hospitals, hospices and other social institutes, where he visited the patients, helped them in various needs, gave free music lessons as a means of rehabilitation and human promotion. She also supported the nascent work in favor of marginalized women undertaken by Santa Micaela del Santissimo Sacramento, Foundress of the Adorers.

In 1849, together with two professors from the college, he founded the first Spanish Conference of San Vincenzo de 'Paul. The Servant of God also worked in the Society to give a solid formation to its members. In particular, he conveyed to them that the ultimate goal of the Institution was the sanctification of the participants and the realization of works of charity. This fruitful framework of works and spiritual journey was interrupted in 1868 when a decree of the revolutionary government suppressed the Society. The Servant of God accepted this decision and, together with a group of faithful collaborators, intensified his activity as a Vincentian in private, visiting about one hundred needy families every week. However, some Conferences continued to function underground.

Faith appears to be the plant on which the other theological and cardinal virtues are grafted. His is clearly Christocentric faith lived through the practice of the sacraments and meditation on the Word of God, which he also recommended to the members of the Society. He had a deep love for the Virgin Mary, St. Joseph and St. Vincent de 'Paoli; he was very loyal to the Pope.

Charity was the backbone in the life of the Servant of God that translated his faith into concrete form; it was the fruit of the interior action of the Holy Spirit, to whom he was generously open. Charity took on different and effective forms in him: the visit to the sick and the poor whom he went to meet, listening to those who needed to express himself and his needs, the distribution of advice and possessions. He knew the poor and called them by name, an aspect that went beyond the distribution of anonymous alms.

Between faith and charity, the Servant of God cultivated the virtue of hope, which led him to trust in God's Providence and mercy and, at the same time, gave him courage, which he then instilled in others.


- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Pasquale Canzii , Seminarian; born on 6 November 1914 in Bisenti (Italy) and died in Penne (Italy) on 24 January 1930.

The Servant of God Pasquale Canzii was born in Bisenti (Teramo, Italy) on November 6, 1914, into a family of sound Christian principles. Due to economic difficulties, the father was forced to emigrate to the United States of America. On the occasion of a popular mission in Bisenti, in 1926, the Servant of God met a Passionist priest. Attracted by the figure of St. Gabriel of the Addolorata, he expressed the desire to enter the Congregation of the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ but, due to his rather fragile health, he was sent to the diocesan seminary. In October of the same year, the Servant of God entered the Seminary of Penne, receiving the habit of a cleric. Engaged in a singular way in piety, discipline and studies, he often repeated that he wanted to "be holy, great saint and soon a saint", like St. Gabriel,St. Louis Gonzaga, St. Stanislao Kostka, St. John Berckmans and St. Therese of Lisieux, young saints who inspired his life.

The mortifications, the renunciations and the discipline to which he underwent gradually undermined the resistance of his fragile body.
He died in the seminary of Penne (Italy), due to pneumonia, on January 24, 1930, at the age of 15.

The brief existence of the Servant of God was characterized by a constant aspiration to holiness, cultivated through love and faithful dedication to one's priestly vocation, pursued without reserve and in simplicity.

The whole life of the Servant of God was characterized by a profound spirit of supernatural faith, nourished by an intense and uninterrupted dialogue with God in prayer. Aware of his human limitations, he did not trust in his own personal resources, but entrusted himself totally to God, by whom he felt called, expecting everything from the divine goodness, with naturalness and simplicity. His faith declined in the assiduous commitment to cooperate with the grace of God, sought and encountered in long hours of prayer, especially in Eucharistic Adoration, and then through the popular devotions he had learned from his mother. By faith he entered the seminary and remained there tenaciously despite the difficulties of health, thanks to his confidence in the Crucifix, of which, educated by the Passionist spirituality that had formed him,he particularly grasped love and mercy. His particular devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary was manifested in the tender filial affection and confidence he had towards the Mother of God, to whom he entrusted every concern and his own spiritual journey.

The Servant of God believed that the vocation to the priesthood was a call to charity towards one's neighbor. During his seminary time, he prayed a lot for others and showed himself available to everyone's needs.

The Servant of God lived in total trust in divine love, manifested in his serenity in the face of the trials and difficulties of life and in the interior determination to respond to the priestly vocation. The heroic hope of the Servant of God was founded on the certainty of God's faithfulness, on divine love revealed in the Crucifix, on filial devotion to Our Lady and on the ardent desire for Paradise.


- the heroic virtues of the Servant of God Adele Bonolis , Faithful Laywoman, Foundress of the Works of Assistance and Social Redemption; born on 14 August 1909 in Milan (Italy) and died there on 11 August 1980.

The Servant of God Adele Bonolis was born in Milan (Italy) on August 14, 1909. After obtaining the diploma of Commercial License, she worked as a clerk. At the same time she participated in parish life by committing herself to Catholic Action, of which she became director. She cultivated a profound interior life, at the base of which was the Eucharist, received daily.

in 1950, she initiated the Women's Orientation House (COF) in Milan destined to welcome prostitutes and single mothers with their children.
Three years later, she founded the Orientation House for Discharged from Correctional Institutes (CODIC) for ex-prisoners and, in 1957, the Fraternal Assistance Work (As.Fra.)
For ex-prisoners and discharged from judicial asylums, subsequently opening the same Opera to psychically fragile and labile people.
In 1962, she founded the Friendship association for people eager to help themselves in the spiritual life and willing to give themselves to others. In these activities, she loved to repeat three words that became a life program for her: “Prudence, Foresight, Providence”.
On 7 December 1959 she received the gold medal of merit from the Municipality of Milan and, in the following years, she received various awards and diplomas of merit from the Ministry of Grace and Justice.

In June 1976, during a spiritual retreat in Anghiari, the Servant of God felt the first symptoms of bowel cancer, for which she was operated on on 13 December 1978.
She died in Milan on 11 August 1980, at the age of 71.


The Servant of God lived heroically the virtue of faith, which sustained her especially in the most difficult moments. She nurtured her relationship with the Lord through prayer, especially love for the Eucharist and the Holy Rosary. Human balance allowed her to reconcile an intense apostolic life with prayer and listening to people.

He heroically lived the virtue of hope in abandonment to Divine Providence. She was convinced that, in the face of obstacles and setbacks, only trust in God could sustain her. So it was during times of sickness and pain. The people who came to visit her saw her smiling to the last, abandoned in God, certain of His love and eternal life.

She did not hesitate to give all of herself for the glory of God and for the salvation of people, caring not only for their physical but also for their spiritual health. The smile and patience with which she welcomed and treated the guests of the houses she founded were born of an authentic love for God and for humanity.

Love for God, in fact, was the source of his tireless love of neighbor, under the double aspect: the material one, aimed at helping others in their daily needs, and the moral one of comfort and accompaniment.
She loved to repeat: "Every soul is a word of God not repeated" and as such must be loved, helped to regain one's filial dignity.
The way in which she exercised charity towards his neighbor was characterized by understanding and delicacy in his treatment, kindness and finesse.
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hmag

pagan american empireLiberalism is a LieWhat is Hell

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A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

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or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

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Aeritai
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Postby Aeritai » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:29 pm

I wonder where all the Protestant users went... I remember when I first came to this thread there was a quite a few back then and now they seem to gone.

Nothing wrong with Catholics and Other users posting here (I respect you guys) just generally curious on where the Protestant users went.
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:59 pm

Aeritai wrote:I wonder where all the Protestant users went... I remember when I first came to this thread there was a quite a few back then and now they seem to gone.

Nothing wrong with Catholics and Other users posting here (I respect you guys) just generally curious on where the Protestant users went.


A lot of us Catholics started off as Protestant
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Joohan
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Postby Joohan » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:07 pm

Aeritai wrote:I wonder where all the Protestant users went... I remember when I first came to this thread there was a quite a few back then and now they seem to gone.

Nothing wrong with Catholics and Other users posting here (I respect you guys) just generally curious on where the Protestant users went.


Catholics are rather fantastic at apologetics, and usually, they're able to turn protestants ( I used to be a Baptist ). It's kind of hard to argue in favor of most any protestant denomination when one is aware of apostolic succession.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:24 pm

Aeritai wrote:I wonder where all the Protestant users went... I remember when I first came to this thread there was a quite a few back then and now they seem to gone.

Nothing wrong with Catholics and Other users posting here (I respect you guys) just generally curious on where the Protestant users went.


Part of it is that a few converted, like me (although not really because of NSG or the posters here), and part of it is that we get too combative and there's more Catholics than protestants so it turns into a dogpile. Which isn't really pleasant to be in.
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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:33 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Aeritai wrote:I wonder where all the Protestant users went... I remember when I first came to this thread there was a quite a few back then and now they seem to gone.

Nothing wrong with Catholics and Other users posting here (I respect you guys) just generally curious on where the Protestant users went.


Part of it is that a few converted, like me (although not really because of NSG or the posters here), and part of it is that we get too combative and there's more Catholics than protestants so it turns into a dogpile. Which isn't really pleasant to be in.

That, and the relative greater knowledge of some on theology (ie, Tarsonis for Catholics and Arch for the Orthodox) possibly discourages getting into straight-out theology fights with them - I know it does for me.

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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:24 am

Aeritai wrote:I wonder where all the Protestant users went... I remember when I first came to this thread there was a quite a few back then and now they seem to gone.

Nothing wrong with Catholics and Other users posting here (I respect you guys) just generally curious on where the Protestant users went.

Aggressive gatekeeping by the Cathodox contingent makes it more or less impossible for Protestants to hang around in this thread without absurdly thick skins.
"Classicist in literature, royalist in politics, and Anglo-Catholic in religion" (T.S. Eliot). Still, unaccountably, a NationStates Moderator.
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The Archregimancy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:44 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Aeritai wrote:I wonder where all the Protestant users went... I remember when I first came to this thread there was a quite a few back then and now they seem to gone.

Nothing wrong with Catholics and Other users posting here (I respect you guys) just generally curious on where the Protestant users went.

Aggressive gatekeeping by the Cathodox contingent makes it more or less impossible for Protestants to hang around in this thread without absurdly thick skins.


Whereas the Orthodox have several centuries more practice at batting aside passive aggressive Catholic condescension about how unity is of course absolutely possible so long as we agree to the Catholic position on all important points of doctrine; also, we do agree with Catholics that most Protestants are slightly silly (making an exception of sorts, usually, for Anglicans), even if we tend to see Protestants as just an outgrowth of Catholicism rather than assume the Catholic-Protestant dichotomy that defines most of these debates in Western Christianity.

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Lost Memories
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lost Memories » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:15 am

Aeritai wrote:I wonder where all the Protestant users went... I remember when I first came to this thread there was a quite a few back then and now they seem to gone.

Nothing wrong with Catholics and Other users posting here (I respect you guys) just generally curious on where the Protestant users went.

If your first visit was around 2018, at that time the protestant presence in this thread was already lower, than compared to older times.

briefly: they left the forum, or they focus only on other discussions, and avoid this one.
Needless to say, there was a lot more arguing before between different "denominations". Maybe some got tired of the arguing, and just left.
I've also noticed it can happen for regular posters to take a break, or to focus more on other discussions in the forum. There seem to be more protestants spread around different discussions, than protestants participating in here.
Also, this is a trite explaination, but it's true, most people have limited time to write on forums.

But in general, my guess is that this whole forum is seeing a phase of lower activity, which relates to the number of new people coming in, which also gets lower, so new posters no longer replaces the people who left. (as much as before)
That goes to add, over the already present divide over christian groups actively posting here.


Some of the minor christian groups, or individuals, maybe left or became less active, because of lack of company from people of the same christian group. It's hard to be christian by staying alone afterall, and the sense of community is an important part of the faith, but also more in general the sense of community is an important part of being human.

The sense of community aside, which helps in the long term, I personally think most forum visitors (not only protestants) should be more bold with their own ideas and opinions. Not for the sake of pushing them on others (and feeling dejected when that fails), but to share to others one piece of the world which only they hold.
A forum without opinions is boring. (while a forum without spite is fantasy, but it's worth trying)
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

hmag

pagan american empireLiberalism is a LieWhat is Hell

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

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