Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Salus Maior]

Question for my Christian friends here (sorry if I posted in the wrong place):

What political philosophy would you argue Jesus would be if he was in modern times? And does this influence who you vote for/support in elections, or your own political philsophy?

Christ's programme transcends existence and therefore politics.

Christ would probably be as critical of modern parties as He was of the Pharisees and Saducees.

[Lower Nubia]

Question for my Christian friends here (sorry if I posted in the wrong place):

What political philosophy would you argue Jesus would be if he was in modern times? And does this influence who you vote for/support in elections, or your own political philsophy?

Fully automated luxury gay space communism.

More seriously, probably Christian Corporatism.

Less seriously, I remember an incident with a whip, so likely Christ would use the modern equivelent, an Amazon sex swing.

More seriously, yes, though the necessity of certain economic functions is not so clearly defined. Certain policies could be, like Abortion, or homosexual marriage, other than social polices, economic policies are difficult to fit into a “Only Christian option”.

[Sanghyeok]

Thank you to everyone who answered.

[Lost Memories]

Less seriously, I remember an incident with a whip, so likely Christ would use the modern equivalent, an Amazon sex swing.

You mean this one?


(though, i contend if overall the image can too easily be co-opted by supporters of liberation theology, basically to trivialize Jesus as just a political figure)

The modern equivalent would be an anti-trust enforcement btw (casually, on big tax evading trusts like amazon).

Talking about liberation theology, it seems like a recurring trend arising every some century or so, and generating problems every single time.
First the fraticelli, then protestantism(only by words for propaganda, not really by actions), and now again liberation theology.

[Salus Maior]

Jesus would just call out everyone's hypocrisy tbh. Left, right, they'd all get roasted. And Christ roasts are pretty harsh.

[Suriyanakhon]

Jesus would just call out everyone's hypocrisy tbh. Left, right, they'd all get roasted. And Christ roasts are pretty harsh.

When the Lake of Fire was actually created because Jesus roasted the devil so hard he caught into flames.

[Luminesa]

Jesus would just call out everyone's hypocrisy tbh. Left, right, they'd all get roasted. And Christ roasts are pretty harsh.

When the Lake of Fire was actually created because Jesus roasted the devil so hard he caught into flames.

"I need to spit some rhymes on you, Satan, but I ain't gotta do a thing except die on the cross for the peoples' sins. Congrats, you played yourself." *Mic drop.*

Angels in the back:

[Lower Nubia]

Less seriously, I remember an incident with a whip, so likely Christ would use the modern equivalent, an Amazon sex swing.

You mean this one?


(though, i contend if overall the image can too easily be co-opted by supporters of liberation theology, basically to trivialize Jesus as just a political figure)

The modern equivalent would be an anti-trust enforcement btw (casually, on big tax evading trusts like amazon).

Talking about liberation theology, it seems like a recurring trend arising every some century or so, and generating problems every single time.
First the fraticelli, then protestantism(only by words for propaganda, not really by actions), and now again liberation theology.

Christ didn’t whip them for trading, but trading in his father’s house. In that regard, prosperity gospel would be more akin to the people he whipped compared to say, the people on Wall Street.

[Dylar]

You mean this one?


(though, i contend if overall the image can too easily be co-opted by supporters of liberation theology, basically to trivialize Jesus as just a political figure)

The modern equivalent would be an anti-trust enforcement btw (casually, on big tax evading trusts like amazon).

Talking about liberation theology, it seems like a recurring trend arising every some century or so, and generating problems every single time.
First the fraticelli, then protestantism(only by words for propaganda, not really by actions), and now again liberation theology.

Christ didn’t whip them for trading, but trading in his father’s house. In that regard, prosperity gospel would be more akin to the people he whipped compared to say, the people on Wall Street.

I could've sworn they were money-changers that converted Roman currency into temple currency and Christ whipped them out for practicing usury

[Lower Nubia]

Christ didn’t whip them for trading, but trading in his father’s house. In that regard, prosperity gospel would be more akin to the people he whipped compared to say, the people on Wall Street.

I could've sworn they were money-changers that converted Roman currency into temple currency and Christ whipped them out for practicing usury

“Then Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who were selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you are making it a den of robbers.”

“Then they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling and those who were buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves; and he would not allow anyone to carry anything through the temple.”

“The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple, both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.”

“Then he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling things there; and he said, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer’; but you have made it a den of robbers.”

Some were traders, and some were robbers and thieves, but all their stalls overturned and they were whipped for practicing it in the temple. There was nothing wrong with money-changers because they converted Roman currencies into Temple currencies. No doubt fraud was exceedingly prevalent, but the ire is directed at their disregard for the temple and utilising this as a place of commerce and not worship. I believe this is kind of obvious, Christ talks with many people who commit fraud, tax collectors are an example, and they’re not whipped.

[Lost Memories]

A knife-wielding attacker shouting "Allahu Akbar" beheaded a woman and killed two other people at a church in the southern French city of Nice on Thursday, according to police officials. - 29/10/2020

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said on Twitter the knife attack had happened at the city's Notre Dame church and that police had detained the attacker.

A police source said three people were confirmed to have died, including a woman who was decapitated in the attack. One of the people killed inside the church was believed to be the church warden, Estrosi said.

When secularism and islam clash, and as a result christians in church get killed, because why not....
Sad, disgusting, and totally demented.

You can bet very few news will report parades with signs saying "Je suis chrétien" this time.


According to other news, more attacks are expected to come. Suspected to be targeting christians in france.
France tightens security, facing 'very high' terror risk after teacher beheading - 27/10/2020

France’s national police have called for increased security at religious sites around the All Saint’s holiday this coming weekend, particularly noting online threats from extremists against Christians and moderate French Muslims.

[Vu Den Voc]

A knife-wielding attacker shouting "Allahu Akbar" beheaded a woman and killed two other people at a church in the southern French city of Nice on Thursday, according to police officials. - 29/10/2020

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said on Twitter the knife attack had happened at the city's Notre Dame church and that police had detained the attacker.

A police source said three people were confirmed to have died, including a woman who was decapitated in the attack. One of the people killed inside the church was believed to be the church warden, Estrosi said.

When secularism and islam clash, and as a result christians in church get killed, because why not....
Sad, disgusting, and totally demented.

You can bet very few news will report parades with signs saying "Je suis chrétien" this time.


According to other news, more attacks are expected to come. Suspected to be targeting christians in france.
France tightens security, facing 'very high' terror risk after teacher beheading - 27/10/2020

France’s national police have called for increased security at religious sites around the All Saint’s holiday this coming weekend, particularly noting online threats from extremists against Christians and moderate French Muslims.

so true.

[Vu Den Voc]

I could've sworn they were money-changers that converted Roman currency into temple currency and Christ whipped them out for practicing usury

“Then Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who were selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you are making it a den of robbers.”

“Then they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling and those who were buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves; and he would not allow anyone to carry anything through the temple.”

“The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple, both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.”

“Then he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling things there; and he said, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer’; but you have made it a den of robbers.”

Some were traders, and some were robbers and thieves, but all their stalls overturned and they were whipped for practicing it in the temple. There was nothing wrong with money-changers because they converted Roman currencies into Temple currencies. No doubt fraud was exceedingly prevalent, but the ire is directed at their disregard for the temple and utilising this as a place of commerce and not worship. I believe this is kind of obvious, Christ talks with many people who commit fraud, tax collectors are an example, and they’re not whipped.

Yeah, Jesus is not against being rich or having a large company, rather when a company is used to abuse power and gain more money rather than helping the people, that is when you get into some bad territory.

[New Visayan Islands]

A knife-wielding attacker shouting "Allahu Akbar" beheaded a woman and killed two other people at a church in the southern French city of Nice on Thursday, according to police officials. - 29/10/2020

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said on Twitter the knife attack had happened at the city's Notre Dame church and that police had detained the attacker.

A police source said three people were confirmed to have died, including a woman who was decapitated in the attack. One of the people killed inside the church was believed to be the church warden, Estrosi said.

When secularism and islam clash, and as a result christians in church get killed, because why not....
Sad, disgusting, and totally demented.

You can bet very few news will report parades with signs saying "Je suis chrétien" this time.


According to other news, more attacks are expected to come. Suspected to be targeting christians in france.
France tightens security, facing 'very high' terror risk after teacher beheading - 27/10/2020

France’s national police have called for increased security at religious sites around the All Saint’s holiday this coming weekend, particularly noting online threats from extremists against Christians and moderate French Muslims.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm being too cynical when I see the Internet treating Christians as the expendable religious group, to be honest. Like at best nobody cares, at worst people cheer when Christians get fucked over. It could be me, though.

Anyway, with cemeteries closed off from today to November 4th I have to ask: when and how often do you go to visit those loved ones who have died? Prior to The Coof, when I was in Manila the family made it a point every Sunday to stop by my late paternal grandfather's niche in the church columbarium. That his urn is interred near my maternal great-uncle's (before anyone asks, it was actually coincidental) means we also visit him.

[Vu Den Voc]

wait would Non-Denominational technically be other, i don't really believe in a religion more of "a relationship with god and what Jesus and the bible says".

[Lost Memories]

Sometimes I wonder if I'm being too cynical when I see the Internet treating Christians as the expendable religious group, to be honest. Like at best nobody cares, at worst people cheer when Christians get fucked over. It could be me, though.

Well, internet is sort of a special case, demography is skewed in favor of people who have too much free time on their hands, meaning mostly kids. So it doesn't reflect reality in its wholeness, and inflates visibility of adolescents and their interests (and often immaturity).
But it's pretty much reality for most news media sources, the anti-christian bias is there. It's not just an impression. And it isn't either something new.

The tag #ChristianLivesMatter is hardly ever going to trend on social medias.
(maybe for the best, that exclusivist framing is stupid)

Anyway, with cemeteries closed off from today to November 4th I have to ask: when and how often do you go to visit those loved ones who have died? Prior to The Coof, when I was in Manila the family made it a point every Sunday to stop by my late paternal grandfather's niche in the church columbarium. That his urn is interred near my maternal great-uncle's (before anyone asks, it was actually coincidental) means we also visit him.

Going every week is very attentive.

I go maybe one or two times every year, used to go more often before.
It may be a necessary matter of space, but i don't like much ash urns, i find it more significant for a dead person to have a grave in the earth.
There is more work involved in mantaining a grave, and i think that helps to think about the deceased. But, yeah, the premise is to go at all.

wait would Non-Denominational technically be other, i don't really believe in a religion more of "a relationship with god and what Jesus and the bible says".

That's pretty much "other", but depending on the belief in the divinity of christ, it could be even more far away, out of christianity.

[Kungsu]

I could've sworn they were money-changers that converted Roman currency into temple currency and Christ whipped them out for practicing usury

“Then Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who were selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you are making it a den of robbers.”

“Then they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling and those who were buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves; and he would not allow anyone to carry anything through the temple.”

“The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple, both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.”

“Then he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling things there; and he said, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer’; but you have made it a den of robbers.”

Some were traders, and some were robbers and thieves, but all their stalls overturned and they were whipped for practicing it in the temple. There was nothing wrong with money-changers because they converted Roman currencies into Temple currencies. No doubt fraud was exceedingly prevalent, but the ire is directed at their disregard for the temple and utilising this as a place of commerce and not worship. I believe this is kind of obvious, Christ talks with many people who commit fraud, tax collectors are an example, and they’re not whipped.

You know, I always found Jesus whipping people to be a bit uncharacteristic of him, since he fully embraced a doctrine of love and forgiveness, regardless of sinner or sin. But reading through this makes me wonder if the whip was to drive the cattle/sheep. I mean, even the sentence structure seems to indicate the whip was for the animals, rather than the people.

Doesn't mean Jesus was thrilled about the moneychangers/merchants/thieves. But it's just a curiosity in my mind, since some people use these verses to justify "righteous anger/violence" and it didn't really sit well with the rest of Jesus's actions and doctrine.

[Vu Den Voc]

“Then Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who were selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’; but you are making it a den of robbers.”

“Then they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling and those who were buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves; and he would not allow anyone to carry anything through the temple.”

“The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple, both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.”

“Then he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling things there; and he said, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer’; but you have made it a den of robbers.”

Some were traders, and some were robbers and thieves, but all their stalls overturned and they were whipped for practicing it in the temple. There was nothing wrong with money-changers because they converted Roman currencies into Temple currencies. No doubt fraud was exceedingly prevalent, but the ire is directed at their disregard for the temple and utilising this as a place of commerce and not worship. I believe this is kind of obvious, Christ talks with many people who commit fraud, tax collectors are an example, and they’re not whipped.

You know, I always found Jesus whipping people to be a bit uncharacteristic of him, since he fully embraced a doctrine of love and forgiveness, regardless of sinner or sin. But reading through this makes me wonder if the whip was to drive the cattle/sheep. I mean, even the sentence structure seems to indicate the whip was for the animals, rather than the people.

Doesn't mean Jesus was thrilled about the moneychangers/merchants/thieves. But it's just a curiosity in my mind, since some people use these verses to justify "righteous anger/violence" and it didn't really sit well with the rest of Jesus's actions and doctrine.

I can see your concerns, when i first saw that i was kind of confused. But after my mom explained it, it makes perfect sense. See when people think of Jesus they think of him as divine and godly, while this is true technically, he had the abilty to sin because he was in a human body. Now several times in the bible god feels emotions (one of the many things we have in common with god) and my mom said this chapter/verse exemplifies that. It's okay to feel angry and to be enraged/disgusted. Its human nature. In fact i forgot the verse, somewhere in the old testament where god was so angry, he planned to get rid of the the Jews, because they kept on sinning (although Moses was so close to god he told him not to).

[Kungsu]

You know, I always found Jesus whipping people to be a bit uncharacteristic of him, since he fully embraced a doctrine of love and forgiveness, regardless of sinner or sin. But reading through this makes me wonder if the whip was to drive the cattle/sheep. I mean, even the sentence structure seems to indicate the whip was for the animals, rather than the people.

Doesn't mean Jesus was thrilled about the moneychangers/merchants/thieves. But it's just a curiosity in my mind, since some people use these verses to justify "righteous anger/violence" and it didn't really sit well with the rest of Jesus's actions and doctrine.

I can see your concerns, when i first saw that i was kind of confused. But after my mom explained it, it makes perfect sense. See when people think of Jesus they think of him as divine and godly, while this is true technically, he had the abilty to sin because he was in a human body. Now several times in the bible god feels emotions (one of the many things we have in common with god) and my mom said this chapter/verse exemplifies that. It's okay to feel angry and to be enraged/disgusted. Its human nature. In fact i forgot the verse, somewhere in the old testament where god was so angry, he planned to get rid of the the Jews, because they kept on sinning (although Moses was so close to god he told him not to).

That was a good lesson for your mother to teach her child, kudos to her. It is important to teach that emotions are natural and to not feel ashamed of them.

However, the example Jesus sets here (if He is whipping people) is that it is okay to act out your anger violently onto other people. If Jesus was just angry, that would be fine, but under this scenario He would be going out of His way to injure people in anger. It just doesn't add up, especially since Jesus was trying to give us a model for how we should live our lives. The anger is okay, but the violence is not.

The language present in these verses, as well as the Christ throughout the rest of the New Testament lean far more towards Him using the whip to drive the cattle/sheep rather than drive out the people.

[Vu Den Voc]

I can see your concerns, when i first saw that i was kind of confused. But after my mom explained it, it makes perfect sense. See when people think of Jesus they think of him as divine and godly, while this is true technically, he had the abilty to sin because he was in a human body. Now several times in the bible god feels emotions (one of the many things we have in common with god) and my mom said this chapter/verse exemplifies that. It's okay to feel angry and to be enraged/disgusted. Its human nature. In fact i forgot the verse, somewhere in the old testament where god was so angry, he planned to get rid of the the Jews, because they kept on sinning (although Moses was so close to god he told him not to).

That was a good lesson for your mother to teach her child, kudos to her. It is important to teach that emotions are natural and to not feel ashamed of them.

However, the example Jesus sets here (if He is whipping people) is that it is okay to act out your anger violently onto other people. If Jesus was just angry, that would be fine, but under this scenario He would be going out of His way to injure people in anger. It just doesn't add up, especially since Jesus was trying to give us a model for how we should live our lives. The anger is okay, but the violence is not.

The language present in these verses, as well as the Christ throughout the rest of the New Testament lean far more towards Him using the whip to drive the cattle/sheep rather than drive out the people.

Yes agreed. I think maybe the verse sounds more violent in certain versions, i think a lot is lost in translation when it comes to the bible. To one person the scripture means this, to another, it means that, i guess it depends on your relationship with god and what he reveals to you.

[Genivaria]

When the Lake of Fire was actually created because Jesus roasted the devil so hard he caught into flames.

"I need to spit some rhymes on you, Satan, but I ain't gotta do a thing except die on the cross for the peoples' sins. Congrats, you played yourself." *Mic drop.*

Angels in the back:

I just wandered into this thread for a minute in saw this.
Worth it.

[Kungsu]

That was a good lesson for your mother to teach her child, kudos to her. It is important to teach that emotions are natural and to not feel ashamed of them.

However, the example Jesus sets here (if He is whipping people) is that it is okay to act out your anger violently onto other people. If Jesus was just angry, that would be fine, but under this scenario He would be going out of His way to injure people in anger. It just doesn't add up, especially since Jesus was trying to give us a model for how we should live our lives. The anger is okay, but the violence is not.

The language present in these verses, as well as the Christ throughout the rest of the New Testament lean far more towards Him using the whip to drive the cattle/sheep rather than drive out the people.

Yes agreed. I think maybe the verse sounds more violent in certain versions, i think a lot is lost in translation when it comes to the bible. To one person the scripture means this, to another, it means that, i guess it depends on your relationship with god and what he reveals to you.

I agree, there isn't a uniform "this Bible verse means this" and thus inner spirituality, study, and your personal relationship with God is highly important. Your interpretation has helped you in a positive way, so I won't say you are wrong. In the end, the exact details of what went down are less important than the morals, guidelines, and messages within.

[Glen Ellyn]

Jesus would just call out everyone's hypocrisy tbh. Left, right, they'd all get roasted. And Christ roasts are pretty harsh.

Jesus would be roasting the rich and powerful who don’t care for the poor, but he would also be marching for justice, making sure people got their COVID test results quickly, giving people warm food after their houses were burned, delivering mail even as the company he works for is crumbling and all the while teaching us what we should really focus on in this tumultuous year: his Holy Father. Truth be told he is doing this right now, through us, his beloved followers. So go out there, and loyally and faithfully do what God is calling you to do, love your neighbor as yourself, and live to serve, not to be served. And may the Grace and Love and Peace of Christ go with you always,
Amen

[Suriyanakhon]

I had a somewhat (controversial) question that I hesitated to ask for a few days because my intent isn't incendiary. Me and Sun had a conversation in the Feminist Discussion Thread about transgender people and the Roman Catholic Church, and how the RCC doesn't accept the identity of transgender people. My question is about someone who has already transitioned medically, legally, and/or surgically. If such a person were to convert to the RCC or Orthodox Church, what would their status be and what would the Church's opinion of what they should do be?

This is a purely speculative question, please don't interpret is as me being open to being convinced to detransition.

[Vu Den Voc]

I had a somewhat (controversial) question that I hesitated to ask for a few days because my intent isn't incendiary. Me and Sun had a conversation in the Feminist Discussion Thread about transgender people and the Roman Catholic Church, and how the RCC doesn't accept the identity of transgender people. My question is about someone who has already transitioned medically, legally, and/or surgically. If such a person were to convert to the RCC or Orthodox Church, what would their status be and what would the Church's opinion of what they should do be?

This is a purely speculative question, please don't interpret is as me being open to being convinced to detransition.

Well i don't go to a RCC or orthdox church but my church is not bothered by homosexuals', transgender's, etc, but that does not mean we are for transgender surgery or gay marriage. If a homosexual asks me honestly how do they get close to god, i would tell him/her to give up their homosexuitaly. But i'm not gonna tell every gay person, "oh your a mistake" etc. Gay people are still people. Trans people are still people. So that's my take on it. I would guess that the RCC is more strict on that. But idk since the pope says he supports gay/trans civil rights groups.