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Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your denomination?

Roman Catholic
163
41%
Eastern Orthodox
24
6%
Non-Chalcedonian (Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, etc.)
1
0%
Anglican/Episcopalian
23
6%
Lutheran or Reformed (including Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc.)
44
11%
Methodist
8
2%
Baptist
39
10%
Other Evangelical Protestant (Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.)
29
7%
Restorationist (LDS Movement, Jehovah's Witness, etc.)
15
4%
Other Christian
50
13%
 
Total votes : 396

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:14 am

Bienenhalde wrote:
Auristania wrote:JW and LDS reject Nicene Creed, they ain't Christians, so they ain't Prods.

I don't know whether Restorationists and Non-Demoninationalists reject Nicene Creed, but if they do, they ain't Prods neither.


What about denominations that say they only follow the Bible and not creeds but happen agree with everything in the Nicene Creed anyway?


Then they're still technically following it.
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This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

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Lower Nubia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2017
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Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:14 am

Bienenhalde wrote:
Auristania wrote:JW and LDS reject Nicene Creed, they ain't Christians, so they ain't Prods.

I don't know whether Restorationists and Non-Demoninationalists reject Nicene Creed, but if they do, they ain't Prods neither.


What about denominations that say they only follow the Bible and not creeds but happen agree with everything in the Nicene Creed anyway?


That sounds like following the Nicene Creed but with extra steps.
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"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:30 am

Lower Nubia wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
What about denominations that say they only follow the Bible and not creeds but happen agree with everything in the Nicene Creed anyway?


That sounds like following the Nicene Creed but with extra steps.


Like unilaterally adding a word stating that the Spirit proceeds from the Son as well as the Father?

We can't be having that, can we.

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South Odreria 2
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Postby South Odreria 2 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:34 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Kedri wrote:
He could possibly mean he's a part of the Restoration movement (churches of Christ, Disciples of Christ, etc.) The Restorationists often do not regard themselves as Protestants and probably could be considered non-denominational, although idk how many would accept or ready that label.


I mean...Restorationists are also Protestant.

?protestants split from the catholics.
Last edited by South Odreria 2 on Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:37 am

Is it a sin to lie to my grandmother with dimentia? We have to lie to her all the time for her own good. For example, when she goes to day care, we have to lie to her and tell she's going to work. Because of her domentia, she thinks she's going to work, and she won't go if we tell her otherwise. Is that a sin?
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Archregimancy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:32 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Is it a sin to lie to my grandmother with dimentia? We have to lie to her all the time for her own good. For example, when she goes to day care, we have to lie to her and tell she's going to work. Because of her domentia, she thinks she's going to work, and she won't go if we tell her otherwise. Is that a sin?


I think a priest would be much better-placed to answer that for you than NSG.

But for the unofficial record, my non-binding Orthodox opinion is that this is easily covered by the principle of economia. You may be deviating from the ordinary rules over lying, but surely this is covered by the need to display a loving spirit of Christian charity towards your grandmother. I can't imagine that any Orthodox priest would view what you are doing as wrong.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:36 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Is it a sin to lie to my grandmother with dimentia? We have to lie to her all the time for her own good. For example, when she goes to day care, we have to lie to her and tell she's going to work. Because of her domentia, she thinks she's going to work, and she won't go if we tell her otherwise. Is that a sin?


I think a priest would be much better-placed to answer that for you than NSG.

But for the unofficial record, my non-binding Orthodox opinion is that this is easily covered by the principle of economia. You may be deviating from the ordinary rules over lying, but surely this is covered by the need to display a loving spirit of Christian charity towards your grandmother. I can't imagine that any Orthodox priest would view what you are doing as wrong.

cheers
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Dylar
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Postby Dylar » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:18 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Is it a sin to lie to my grandmother with dimentia? We have to lie to her all the time for her own good. For example, when she goes to day care, we have to lie to her and tell she's going to work. Because of her domentia, she thinks she's going to work, and she won't go if we tell her otherwise. Is that a sin?


I think a priest would be much better-placed to answer that for you than NSG.

But for the unofficial record, my non-binding Orthodox opinion is that this is easily covered by the principle of economia. You may be deviating from the ordinary rules over lying, but surely this is covered by the need to display a loving spirit of Christian charity towards your grandmother. I can't imagine that any Orthodox priest would view what you are doing as wrong.

You could say his methods are a little...

Unorthodox

I'll see myself out now
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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:50 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Is it a sin to lie to my grandmother with dimentia? We have to lie to her all the time for her own good. For example, when she goes to day care, we have to lie to her and tell she's going to work. Because of her domentia, she thinks she's going to work, and she won't go if we tell her otherwise. Is that a sin?

As Arch said, a priest probably would be best to answer this question. However, personally, I have lived with grandparents who suffered with dementia and Alzheimer's for many years. It's a vicious, fickle beast, as I'm sure you probably know. I don't think it's a sin. Your intention is to give her care, which is already a corporeal work of mercy, caring for the sick and infirm. You have to live on her level, and so it would not be a sin. There's little you can do about these sorts of delusions or lapses without medicine, which really only slows the progress of the dementia. In your case, you're doing all you can to keep her comfortable. :hug: :hug:
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3
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"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Be safe, wear your mask outside the home, pray for peace, mercy, and justice to reign in our world. God bless you!

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Luminesa
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Founded: Dec 09, 2014
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:02 am

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
Are there any valid Christian theologies which discount the need of the sacraments which also can also be found in the duty, life and mission of the Church for the last 2,000 years? Not 500? No.


You're the only one who brought up sacraments, dude. I didn't say anything about them.

Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Salus Maior wrote:
Nubia isn't a Catholic.

And also neither of us are being that harsh with you. It's a fair criticism.


I didn't say it wasn't. I half-joking by making a Skyrim reference to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread. Just a little light-hearted, humor is all.

Tars and Nubia have already addressed the part about God not needing but still desiring temples, at least in part, but I'd like to add my own little bit.

God did command for His followers to create specific dwellings for Him. He asked for the Ark of the Covenant to be made for His dwelling place, and yes, He could not be entirely contained by it. Anyone who was deemed unworthy and who tried to enter the Temple to see it died immediately. Yet the point was that God still wished to be among His people, to let them know that no matter what, He is with them.

Sure, there are cases in which Masses or services can be said without a church. St. John Paul II, when he was a younger priest, would take his students on kayaking trips, and when he wanted to say Mass (in communist-run Poland this was not exactly safe to do in public), he would take his kayak, turn it into an altar, and he would say Mass with his students as the congregation, somewhere deep in the wilderness. The Sacraments are what made that Mass valid, rather than the saying of a Mass in a building.

So the requirement for buildings is twofold. In normal circumstances, God asks them of His followers, both in the Bible and in Tradition. Yet the buildings become useless if they are not blessed by God's presence, if He is not within them. There is the vision where Ezekiel saw the glory of God leaving the temple of Jerusalem. It's meant to be symbolic, in a sense, but at the same time it does make a literal point. What is a home without its creator, and what must one do if God asks for us to build houses for Him even if He does not necessarily need them?
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
King Alfred's Prayer
Be safe, wear your mask outside the home, pray for peace, mercy, and justice to reign in our world. God bless you!

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Lower Nubia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lower Nubia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:08 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
That sounds like following the Nicene Creed but with extra steps.


Like unilaterally adding a word stating that the Spirit proceeds from the Son as well as the Father?

We can't be having that, can we.


Oh damn, you got those Catholics good.
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"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

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Tarsonis
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Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:58 pm

Lower Nubia wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
Like unilaterally adding a word stating that the Spirit proceeds from the Son as well as the Father?

We can't be having that, can we.


Oh damn, you got those Catholics good.



Funnily enough this doesn't feel like a gotcha to me because in my Orthodox Catholic dialog group on another forum, this is all we've been talking about lately and we've had some very productive discussions.
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Lower Nubia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2017
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Postby Lower Nubia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:59 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
Oh damn, you got those Catholics good.



Funnily enough this doesn't feel like a gotcha to me because in my Orthodox Catholic dialog group on another forum, this is all we've been talking about lately and we've had some very productive discussions.


4th Council of Constantinople in 869 or 879?
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"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:04 pm

Lower Nubia wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:

Funnily enough this doesn't feel like a gotcha to me because in my Orthodox Catholic dialog group on another forum, this is all we've been talking about lately and we've had some very productive discussions.


4th Council of Constantinople in 869 or 879?


eh were more debating the council of Florence
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Lower Nubia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lower Nubia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:06 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
4th Council of Constantinople in 869 or 879?


eh were more debating the council of Florence


Interesting, I know very little of the Council of Florence, other than it was utter Hypocrisy to call for unity while Catholicism was split so neatly, on the whole, couldn't "pick a pope" so to speak.
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Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
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Rosmana
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Founded: Apr 08, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rosmana » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:21 am

Lower Nubia wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
eh were more debating the council of Florence


Interesting, I know very little of the Council of Florence, other than it was utter Hypocrisy to call for unity while Catholicism was split so neatly, on the whole, couldn't "pick a pope" so to speak.

It was about the conflict between the Conciliar movement and the principle of papal supremacy, who or what is leading in the RCC.

The Council, or the Pope? :)
"We need to consecrate our souls through grace in order to reach the kingdom of God"

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Lower Nubia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:49 am

Rosmana wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
Interesting, I know very little of the Council of Florence, other than it was utter Hypocrisy to call for unity while Catholicism was split so neatly, on the whole, couldn't "pick a pope" so to speak.

It was about the conflict between the Conciliar movement and the principle of papal supremacy, who or what is leading in the RCC.

The Council, or the Pope? :)


Well... The Council(s), or one of the Pope(s). Which I think was the enate hypocrisy.

"Join us! Let's be unified - wooo no more fighting"

must immediately pick sides in an ecclesiastical civil war
Last edited by Lower Nubia on Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
    Syndrome
  5. Graduated
    in Biochemistry
Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

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Rosmana
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Posts: 279
Founded: Apr 08, 2020
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Postby Rosmana » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:06 am

Lower Nubia wrote:
Rosmana wrote:It was about the conflict between the Conciliar movement and the principle of papal supremacy, who or what is leading in the RCC.

The Council, or the Pope? :)


Well... The Council(s), or one of the Pope(s). Which I think was the enate hypocrisy.

"Join us! Let's be unified - wooo no more fighting"

must immediately pick sides in an ecclesiastical civil war

Agreed, it was a disaster. :)
"We need to consecrate our souls through grace in order to reach the kingdom of God"

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:22 am

Remember that we are but clay in the Lord's hands, the word of the Lord.
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Rosmana
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Founded: Apr 08, 2020
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Postby Rosmana » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:49 am

Sundiata wrote:Remember that we are but clay in the Lord's hands, the word of the Lord.

Yes yes, we are worms. :D
"We need to consecrate our souls through grace in order to reach the kingdom of God"

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The Archregimancy
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 24886
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:18 am

Lower Nubia wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
Like unilaterally adding a word stating that the Spirit proceeds from the Son as well as the Father?

We can't be having that, can we.


Oh damn, you got those Catholics good.


For the record, it was intended as a light-hearted joke, not as a 'gotcha'.

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Lower Nubia
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Posts: 2228
Founded: Dec 22, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:36 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
Oh damn, you got those Catholics good.


For the record, it was intended as a light-hearted joke, not as a 'gotcha'.


We know your real intentions. ;)
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
    Syndrome
  5. Graduated
    in Biochemistry
Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

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Tarsonis
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Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:32 pm

Lower Nubia wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
For the record, it was intended as a light-hearted joke, not as a 'gotcha'.


We know your real intentions. ;)


The Orthodox Conspiracy™ persists
Last edited by Tarsonis on Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Lower Nubia
Minister
 
Posts: 2228
Founded: Dec 22, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:36 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
We know your real intentions. ;)


The Orthodox Conspiracy™ persists


Image
  1. Anglo-Catholic
    Anglican
  2. Socially Centre-Right
  3. Economically Centre-left
  4. Asperger
    Syndrome
  5. Graduated
    in Biochemistry
Her Region of Africa
Her Overview (WIP)
"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
Signature Updated: 19th March, 2020

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55386
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:47 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I23aEVCtzHs

For anyone seeking to do Adoration, but who is unable to attend a church, St. Benedict’s in Melbourne, Australia is offering Perpetual Adoration live from YouTube. Now you can worship Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament from your own home.

If you’ve never done Adoration before, it’s very relaxing and really opens the heart to God. Just sit in silence, or talk to God about your day, or even write your prayers in a journal. Just spend some time with Jesus.

If this link stops, I’ll happily find another Perpetual Adoration link. God bless! :)
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
King Alfred's Prayer
Be safe, wear your mask outside the home, pray for peace, mercy, and justice to reign in our world. God bless you!

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