Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Lower Nubia]

Honestly, for Baptist successionism, that’s all they needed to be.

Have you seen Baptist’s try and mould the Paulicians into Baptists, saying that: “We only know of the Paulicians through Catholic/Byzantine writing, which means they have been embellished and distorted from what they were: Genuine God fearing, faith in the Christ and the gospel, people.”

Like Oof it makes you cringe.

Even if it were embellished, there's no evidence that they were secret Baptists or whatever.

Waldensians, from what I know of them, are the only heretical sect that comes anywhere close.

Of course there's no evidence. That doesn't stop them making it up.

[Geneviev]

I'm looking for a new church right now, but I have no idea what denomination it should be. Do you have any suggestions for where I should go?

[Salus Maior]

I'm looking for a new church right now, but I have no idea what denomination it should be. Do you have any suggestions for where I should go?

Well, considering the majority of posters here are Catholic, I might as well get the suggestion of "Catholic Church" out of the way (although I'm sure you would have a decent time visiting any given parish).

But considering your views I imagine you wouldn't commit to a Catholic parish, so I would suggest perhaps an Episcopal or ELCA church.

[Lost Memories]

I'm looking for a new church right now, but I have no idea what denomination it should be. Do you have any suggestions for where I should go?

I have two questions:
(going by the idea that, others can give examples, of things you may not know, but in the end you should decide for yourself)

Why do you feel to need a church?
What are the reasons. (or why the lack of a church is not desiderable) Knowing what you do search is a start.

Why did you leave your previous one?

[Lost Memories]

True. Catharism is NOT Christianity. Likewise, burning people alive don't fit the God who is Love incarnate.

If i understand the history of that event right, the one of the cathars killed en masse(Massacre of Béziers), by the time the mass killing happened the cathars had established themselves as supporters of a rogue state, after the killing of a diplomat. So it wasn't out of the blue, it was an event framed inside the context of a war. (the killing is reported to have been by sword though, during the end of the siege of Béziers)
(where at the time the debate about if wars could be "just" did have its highs and lows, but there wasn't an universal rejection of war)

Then there is the dual topic of the acceptance of torture and death sentence in the societies of those times (and actually, the general stance on torture and death penalty changed to rejection only relatively recently in human history, and still not everywhere), so stake burning is horrible for us, but probably at those times it was seen as just one of the many ways to have an exemplary execution, where executions were common, and exemplary executions not so unheard of.

Talking about torture, given the historical context, it would seem that when Jesus was tortured before talking with Pilate, it was because it was customary in roman trials to torture the accused, with the assumption torture made confessions more truthful. (and that idea carried on quite far past the romans usage)

All that said, the papal legate Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Cîteaux, who was in charge during the Massacre during the siege of Béziers in 1209, and who is reported to have famously said "Kill them all, the Lord will recognise His own", he wasn't really inspired by moderation and compassion...



To say, "burning people alive don't fit the God who is Love incarnate."
I agree, but that's part of our sensibility to torture and death penality in the present time.
In the past the sensibility was different, death was something felt more closely all the time, and as such torture and death penality were less shocking.
Just think that the inventor of the guillotine (the physician Joseph-Ignace Guillotin, 1789) thought he did an "humanitarian work" when he invented it, compared to the other more barbaric methods of execution. And 1789 isn't really ancient times.

[Lower Nubia]

I'm looking for a new church right now, but I have no idea what denomination it should be. Do you have any suggestions for where I should go?

You'll probably be most comfortable with a Lutheran or Episcopal Church.

[Rosmana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktPjEOlmtxg

Sorry for overreacting but somehow this feels like a dagger in the heart.

[Geneviev]

I'm surprised that I didn't get more suggestions for Catholicism. Anyway, thank you.

[The New California Republic]

Crossposting (forgive the pun) from the Hagia Sophia thread:

Crowds gathered in Istanbul as the historic Hagia Sophia site opened for Friday prayers for the first time since Turkish authorities ruled it could be converted into a mosque.

Clerics in white robes sang from the Koran. Mosaics and frescoes of Jesus and Mary were draped with curtains.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53506445

Thus begins the whitewashing of the history of the Hagia Sophia...

[Rosmana]

Crossposting (forgive the pun) from the Hagia Sophia thread:

Crowds gathered in Istanbul as the historic Hagia Sophia site opened for Friday prayers for the first time since Turkish authorities ruled it could be converted into a mosque.

Clerics in white robes sang from the Koran. Mosaics and frescoes of Jesus and Mary were draped with curtains.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53506445

Thus begins the whitewashing of the history of the Hagia Sophia...

They will probably paint them over.
Again.

[New Visayan Islands]

I'm surprised that I didn't get more suggestions for Catholicism. Anyway, thank you.

See? CDT isn't an all-Catholic thread.

[Rosmana]

I'm surprised that I didn't get more suggestions for Catholicism. Anyway, thank you.

See? CDT isn't an all-Catholic thread.

Amen, nobody here gets why I am wearing so much green.

I am just a very ordinary person.

[Lost Memories]

Crossposting (forgive the pun) from the Hagia Sophia thread:

Crowds gathered in Istanbul as the historic Hagia Sophia site opened for Friday prayers for the first time since Turkish authorities ruled it could be converted into a mosque.

Clerics in white robes sang from the Koran. Mosaics and frescoes of Jesus and Mary were draped with curtains.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53506445

Thus begins the whitewashing of the history of the Hagia Sophia...

As Rosmana said, if you try to search for some photos of the interiors of Hagia Sophia, you'll see plenty had already been "re-converted" before, and the general state of the building is unkempt.
https://www.gettyimages.it/immagine/hag ... a-interior

It also seems most of the imagery got destroyed by the same byzantines during the iconoclasm. So in general very little christian imagery was left even before the recent decision to officially convert it into a mosque.

[Rosmana]

Crossposting (forgive the pun) from the Hagia Sophia thread:

As Rosmana said, if you try to search for some photos of the interiors of Hagia Sophia, you'll see plenty had already been "re-converted" before, and the general state of the building is unkempt.
https://www.gettyimages.it/immagine/hag ... a-interior

It also seems most of the imagery got destroyed by the same byzantines during the iconoclasm. So in general very little christian imagery was left even before the recent decision to officially convert it into a mosque.

It is still a waste, the ones that remained where priceless artifacts, i hope they will just stick to the curtains.

[Tarsonis]

I'm surprised that I didn't get more suggestions for Catholicism. Anyway, thank you.

See? CDT isn't an all-Catholic thread.

.Heresy

[Rosmana]

See? CDT isn't an all-Catholic thread.

.Heresy

that was unexpected....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4

[Lost Memories]

It's a shame there aren't photos of Hagia Sophia before the turkish takeover, and before the iconoclasm, but i thought looking at St Peter's Basilica could give an idea of how Hagia Sophia actually looked before, for what concerns number and placement of imagery (since the style had to be clearly different)
https://www.gettyimages.it/immagine/st- ... d-interior

Guess i can now imagine what was hidden behind those round panels with arabic inscriptions in Hagia Sophia. St Peter's Basilica hosts some images in very similar positions.

[The New California Republic]

Crossposting (forgive the pun) from the Hagia Sophia thread:

As Rosmana said, if you try to search for some photos of the interiors of Hagia Sophia, you'll see plenty had already been "re-converted" before, and the general state of the building is unkempt.
https://www.gettyimages.it/immagine/hag ... a-interior

It also seems most of the imagery got destroyed by the same byzantines during the iconoclasm. So in general very little christian imagery was left even before the recent decision to officially convert it into a mosque.

I was more meaning the inevitable whitewashing that was going to take place after the decision was taken.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I'm looking for a new church right now, but I have no idea what denomination it should be. Do you have any suggestions for where I should go?

Remember that you don't need to be part of a church if you don't want to be. I'm not and I'm fine with it. Doesn't make you any less Christian.

And those who say it does are probably "Prosperity Gospel" swindlers trying to con you out of your money.

[The New California Republic]

The ownership of an A-listed modernist building which the Catholic Church has been trying to get rid of for years has been transferred to a charitable trust.

Last year, the church described St Peter's Seminary in Cardross, near Helensburgh, as an "albatross around our neck" which it could not give away.

The "modernist masterpiece" closed in the 1970s and has seen decades of failed plans to revive it.

The church said the Kilmahew Education Trust would be the new legal owners.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53530257

Finally something might be done with it.

[Lower Nubia]

I'm looking for a new church right now, but I have no idea what denomination it should be. Do you have any suggestions for where I should go?

Remember that you don't need to be part of a church if you don't want to be. I'm not and I'm fine with it. Doesn't make you any less Christian.

And those who say it does are probably "Prosperity Gospel" swindlers trying to con you out of your money.

You kind of do need to be part of a Church. How else do you receive the sacraments?

[Salus Maior]

I'm looking for a new church right now, but I have no idea what denomination it should be. Do you have any suggestions for where I should go?

Remember that you don't need to be part of a church if you don't want to be. I'm not and I'm fine with it. Doesn't make you any less Christian.

And those who say it does are probably "Prosperity Gospel" swindlers trying to con you out of your money.

I mean, Jesus would disagree but hey.

[Luminesa]

Crossposting (forgive the pun) from the Hagia Sophia thread:

Crowds gathered in Istanbul as the historic Hagia Sophia site opened for Friday prayers for the first time since Turkish authorities ruled it could be converted into a mosque.

Clerics in white robes sang from the Koran. Mosaics and frescoes of Jesus and Mary were draped with curtains.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53506445

Thus begins the whitewashing of the history of the Hagia Sophia...

This is what I was afraid of. Erdogan knows exactly what he's doing.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Remember that you don't need to be part of a church if you don't want to be. I'm not and I'm fine with it. Doesn't make you any less Christian.

And those who say it does are probably "Prosperity Gospel" swindlers trying to con you out of your money.

You kind of do need to be part of a Church. How else do you receive the sacraments?

Remember that you don't need to be part of a church if you don't want to be. I'm not and I'm fine with it. Doesn't make you any less Christian.

And those who say it does are probably "Prosperity Gospel" swindlers trying to con you out of your money.

I mean, Jesus would disagree but hey.

Alternative theological positions: *exist*

Catholics: "And so, you will die a heretic's death."

[Lower Nubia]

You kind of do need to be part of a Church. How else do you receive the sacraments?

I mean, Jesus would disagree but hey.

Alternative theological positions: *exist*

Catholics: "And so, you will die a heretic's death."

Are there any valid Christian theologies which discount the need of the sacraments which also can also be found in the duty, life and mission of the Church for the last 2,000 years? Not 500? No.