Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Lower Nubia]

Let us go with you all?

with y'all

Sips tea

[Menassa]

In the end of days, the world will have Universal knowledge of the one God of the Jews. As is clear from Isaiah 2 and other places in the Old Testament, this is one of the facts about the Messianic age that has not come to pass, and will not come to pass, until the advent of the Messiah.

Now I know what you're thinking. "Rabbi, does this not clearly refer to Jesus it says a Jewish man!" To which I will respond that Zechariah's words are: 'Let us go with you ... because we have heard that God is with you.' And the you in this verse is written in the second person plural, so a proper English translation would be let us go with y'all. This is reflected in languages that have a second person plural like German which translates this word as 'euch.'

Well, what is a Jew?

Someone you need if you want to succeed on Broadway.

[Tarsonis]

with y'all

Sips tea

laughs in freedom

[Lower Nubia]

Sips tea

laughs in freedom

sips sea-salted tea

[Australian rePublic]

Did Jesus take any of the 12 Apostles from amongst the goyim, or were they all Jews?

[Dogmeat]

Also, there's a chance that many Christians in the 21st Century are decendant from Jews

Dunno, i would guess there are more chances to be a descendant of Genghis Khan, than to be from Jewish ancestry, for a common random person, that is.

I mention this only because it's a subject that interests me, and not as an enforcement of anything:
Virtually everyone in the world has Jewish ancestry. Because Judaism is an old religion.

That thing you've heard about everyone in Europe being descended from Charlemagne - because: math - doesn't just apply to him. Because the number of ancestors you have doubles with each generation you go back, you don't have to go back that many generations before you have just an astronomical number of ancestors.

So by the time of Charlemagne this is enough, that every European ought to be related to him through at least two different lines. And a plurality of non-Europeans are likely to be descended from him as well. Judaism is - very conservatively - at least a thousand years older than that, and there were and are a lot of Jews.

So you have a Jewish ancestor. I can basically guarantee it. You have lots, probably. And there's a pretty good chance you share most of them with most of the other people in this thread. Because: math.

[Lost Memories]

Because the number of ancestors you have doubles with each generation you go back, you don't have to go back that many generations before you have just an astronomical number of ancestors.
...
Judaism is - very conservatively - at least a thousand years older than that, and there were and are a lot of Jews.

It doesn't actually work like that. The 'math' you are using there is overly simplified, so much to be faulty.
It isn't a linear recursive sum of 2^x, for x generations, but things like isolated ethnic groups do exist, and they did exist in larger part in the past than now in the present, and as such intermarrying, albeit with some/many generations inbetween, did and do happen all the time.
Virtually everytime someone marries with someone from the same nationality, they are marrying someone who more likely has some common far away relative in common.

Because of that, while the number of ancestors across every generation does grow linearly with time, that doesn't mean at all that the high number of ancestors has to overflow into other ethnic groups. It can just very easily be that your ancestors have always lived in the same place, with limited contact and mixing with other groups.
And unless you want to include the homo erectus in the ancestry, if someone marries someone from outside their ethnic group, the chances of having some common ancestor or relative, is really thin.

Charlemagne doesn't matter much as a person, but Genghis Khan is often cited for high number of descendants, even if with some overblown reasoning, because his high number of offsprings (most of them illegitimate), and because their populations didn't remain self-isolated but did merge around with other populations.
Charlemagne is just a random guy in the context of ancestry, but Genghis Khan is a limit case, like that other Moroccan king who had over 867 childs (525 boys and 342 girls registered, and many others unregistered), they aren't average normal guys.

Judaism as an ethnic group has been self isolating way more than other ethnic groups, and relatively speaking has never been a big population, anywhere in history, so the chances of them having mixed with lots of other populations in the past, as extensively as to have left descendants everywhere, is less likely than other options.
It's actually more likely the opposite, inside the Jewish ethnicity there are traces of every other ethnicity. While highly unlikely for everyone to have a jewish ancestor.


Now, if someone said everyone has an homo erectus as ancestor, i would have to agree with that instead.
But singling out any specific ethnic group is a rather odd thing to do, and the validity of saying everyone has an ancestor from that specific group is very questionable.

[Lost Memories]

Regardless, talks of ancestry delving too long in the past, seem like one of those aimless pursuits which the devil would love to see people lose their time on.

[Menassa]

Regardless, talks of ancestry delving too long in the past, seem like one of those aimless pursuits which the devil would love to see people lose their time on.

1 Timothy 1:4
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.

[Tarsonis]

Did Jesus take any of the 12 Apostles from amongst the goyim, or were they all Jews?

All Jews

[Australian rePublic]

Did Jesus take any of the 12 Apostles from amongst the goyim, or were they all Jews?

All Jews

Cheers thanks

[Australian rePublic]

Regardless, talks of ancestry delving too long in the past, seem like one of those aimless pursuits which the devil would love to see people lose their time on.

I think God has more important things to worry about than whether or not we talk about genealogy

Regardless, talks of ancestry delving too long in the past, seem like one of those aimless pursuits which the devil would love to see people lose their time on.

1 Timothy 1:4
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.

Context is important. The rest of that chapter talks about how to be faithful Christian. Further, Judaism is one of those faiths where it's difficult to participate if you don't have a Jewish mother. I'm not sure if it Judaism was like that at the time of Jesus, but on the context of the surrounding tmverses, I think it's more about "anyone can join regardless of ansestry" or "ansestry shouldn't determine how you live your life" or something like that, rather than "you know where your great grandparents were born, boo!"

[Menassa]

1 Timothy 1:4
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.

[...] rather than "you know where your great grandparents were born, boo!"

I wasn't insinuating this.

[Australian rePublic]

[...] rather than "you know where your great grandparents were born, boo!"

I wasn't insinuating this.

My bad. Carry on

[Sundiata]

I'm just praying for the recent victims of gun-violence who were killed largely on the basis of their race.

[Salus Maior]

I'm just praying for the recent victims of gun-violence who were killed largely on the basis of their race.

A good thing to pray for.

[Luminesa]

I'm just praying for the recent victims of gun-violence who were killed largely on the basis of their race.

Yes, we must all pray. And we must pray for peace in Minneapolis, and around the US.

[The Zionist Lehi State]

The votes are filtering in, who will win? The Roman Catholics. It's always the Roman Catholics.

as it should be

[Lower Nubia]

The votes are filtering in, who will win? The Roman Catholics. It's always the Roman Catholics.

as it should be

I’m surprised that the Anglicans are catching up to the Orthodox. Is Canterbury the fourth Rome?

[Auristania]

Regardless, talks of ancestry delving too long in the past, seem like one of those aimless pursuits which the devil would love to see people lose their time on.

I think God has more important things to worry about than whether or not we talk about genealogy

1 Timothy 1:4
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.

Context is important. The rest of that chapter talks about how to be faithful Christian. Further, Judaism is one of those faiths where it's difficult to participate if you don't have a Jewish mother. I'm not sure if it Judaism was like that at the time of Jesus, but on the context of the surrounding tmverses, I think it's more about "anyone can join regardless of ansestry" or "ansestry shouldn't determine how you live your life" or something like that, rather than "you know where your great grandparents were born, boo!"

God OUGHT to bother about better things than genealogy, BUT huge chunks of Scripture are genealogy.

[Northern Davincia]

I think God has more important things to worry about than whether or not we talk about genealogy


Context is important. The rest of that chapter talks about how to be faithful Christian. Further, Judaism is one of those faiths where it's difficult to participate if you don't have a Jewish mother. I'm not sure if it Judaism was like that at the time of Jesus, but on the context of the surrounding tmverses, I think it's more about "anyone can join regardless of ansestry" or "ansestry shouldn't determine how you live your life" or something like that, rather than "you know where your great grandparents were born, boo!"

God OUGHT to bother about better things than genealogy, BUT huge chunks of Scripture are genealogy.

It is quite bold to say what God ought to do.

[New Visayan Islands]

as it should be

I’m surprised that the Anglicans are catching up to the Orthodox. Is Canterbury the fourth Rome?

Are we assuming that Moscow is the Third Rome in this scenario?

[Lower Nubia]

I’m surprised that the Anglicans are catching up to the Orthodox. Is Canterbury the fourth Rome?

Are we assuming that Moscow is the Third Rome in this scenario?

Purely for the memes of course.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

https://youtu.be/pRhjWdr-LAA

High school students perform for a talent show as "silent monks" "singing" Handel's Hallelujah. It's kind of beautiful.

[Auristania]

Dunno, i would guess there are more chances to be a descendant of Genghis Khan, than to be from Jewish ancestry, for a common random person, that is.

I mention this only because it's a subject that interests me, and not as an enforcement of anything:
Virtually everyone in the world has Jewish ancestry. Because Judaism is an old religion.

That thing you've heard about everyone in Europe being descended from Charlemagne - because: math - doesn't just apply to him. Because the number of ancestors you have doubles with each generation you go back, you don't have to go back that many generations before you have just an astronomical number of ancestors.

So by the time of Charlemagne this is enough, that every European ought to be related to him through at least two different lines. And a plurality of non-Europeans are likely to be descended from him as well. Judaism is - very conservatively - at least a thousand years older than that, and there were and are a lot of Jews.

So you have a Jewish ancestor. I can basically guarantee it. You have lots, probably. And there's a pretty good chance you share most of them with most of the other people in this thread. Because: math.

This is a mathematical truth. So the Jews made a rule: it's gotta be descent by mother's mother's mother etc all the way back to count as actually Jewish.

12 apostles, 11 were Jewish, Judas was Canaanite.