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by New haven america » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:31 am
by New Paine » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:33 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:Heloin wrote:Send the police officers who have destroyed Hong Kong to jail. Remove all members of the LegCo who aren’t elected by the people of Hong Kong. Have free fair elections for the people of Hong Kong. Leave China or have China guarantee true regional autonomy that’s enforced by a third party. Those are the points China will never accept, but those are the only way Hong Kong will see true peace outside of the death of the city and the people who live there.
What is needed is a comprehensive (but fair) crackdown of all the specific protestors who have broken the law and destroyed so much of the local economy through vandalism.
However, we can wait until after Chinese New Year to see how much momentum this movement still has. I believe many people here tire of the street violence and vandalism. It might be possible to simply wait and then make a final round of investigations.
by Pasong Tirad » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:33 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:Heloin wrote:Send the police officers who have destroyed Hong Kong to jail. Remove all members of the LegCo who aren’t elected by the people of Hong Kong. Have free fair elections for the people of Hong Kong. Leave China or have China guarantee true regional autonomy that’s enforced by a third party. Those are the points China will never accept, but those are the only way Hong Kong will see true peace outside of the death of the city and the people who live there.
What is needed is a comprehensive (but fair) crackdown of all the specific protestors who have broken the law and destroyed so much of the local economy through vandalism.
However, we can wait until after Chinese New Year to see how much momentum this movement still has. I believe many people here tire of the street violence and vandalism. It might be possible to simply wait and then make a final round of investigations.
by Thermodolia » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:34 am
New Paine wrote:Thermodolia wrote:Hardly a word salad. You just can’t handle getting called out on being a doomer.
It’s not semantics it’s a fact.
Which would be a small price to pay for the total economic collapse of China. We import more than we export to China. If we halted trade China would collapse while we would just end up with a recession that we could and would bounce back from stronger and more powerful.
You don’t want to do that because that means tighter belts and that would cut into your cushy lifestyle.
Tibet and Vietnam would both like a word with you. Also it’s not a reach. We are in a Cold War with China weather you like it or not. And right now you definitely seem like the type who would have willingly give up the Cold War in the 50’s.
No it’s not. Genocide is genocide no matter how you slice it
Bull fucking shit. You don’t want to do anything else because that would mean less money for gaming. You don’t want to hurt your cushy lifestyle. But that doesn’t mean we need to roll over and die and let the CCP walk all over us.
China is not invading nations and setting up satellite states, so comparing it to the USSR is silly.
No, if we cut of our largest trading partner, we won’t “bounce back stronger than ever”. It will take years to even recover even slightly and when we do, we will be weaker than ever.
You’re acting like China has very little influence, weak military, and weak economy, which is untrue.
And by the way, you may believe you sound more intelligent my acting like a smug asshole, but it does really doesn’t.
by New haven america » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:35 am
Pasong Tirad wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
What is needed is a comprehensive (but fair) crackdown of all the specific protestors who have broken the law and destroyed so much of the local economy through vandalism.
However, we can wait until after Chinese New Year to see how much momentum this movement still has. I believe many people here tire of the street violence and vandalism. It might be possible to simply wait and then make a final round of investigations.
It's like anything we say just enters one ear and falls right out the other.
by Thermodolia » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:35 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:Heloin wrote:Send the police officers who have destroyed Hong Kong to jail. Remove all members of the LegCo who aren’t elected by the people of Hong Kong. Have free fair elections for the people of Hong Kong. Leave China or have China guarantee true regional autonomy that’s enforced by a third party. Those are the points China will never accept, but those are the only way Hong Kong will see true peace outside of the death of the city and the people who live there.
What is needed is a comprehensive (but fair) crackdown of all the specific protestors who have broken the law and destroyed so much of the local economy through vandalism.
However, we can wait until after Chinese New Year to see how much momentum this movement still has. I believe many people here tire of the street violence and vandalism. It might be possible to simply wait and then make a final round of investigations.
by Thermodolia » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:36 am
New Paine wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
What is needed is a comprehensive (but fair) crackdown of all the specific protestors who have broken the law and destroyed so much of the local economy through vandalism.
However, we can wait until after Chinese New Year to see how much momentum this movement still has. I believe many people here tire of the street violence and vandalism. It might be possible to simply wait and then make a final round of investigations.
Do you think that the protests will hurt or help the pro-Democracy camp in LegCo?
by Heloin » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:38 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:Heloin wrote:Send the police officers who have destroyed Hong Kong to jail. Remove all members of the LegCo who aren’t elected by the people of Hong Kong. Have free fair elections for the people of Hong Kong. Leave China or have China guarantee true regional autonomy that’s enforced by a third party. Those are the points China will never accept, but those are the only way Hong Kong will see true peace outside of the death of the city and the people who live there.
What is needed is a comprehensive (but fair) crackdown of all the specific protestors who have broken the law and destroyed so much of the local economy through vandalism.
However, we can wait until after Chinese New Year to see how much momentum this movement still has. I believe many people here tire of the street violence and vandalism. It might be possible to simply wait and then make a final round of investigations.
by Heloin » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:39 am
New Paine wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
What is needed is a comprehensive (but fair) crackdown of all the specific protestors who have broken the law and destroyed so much of the local economy through vandalism.
However, we can wait until after Chinese New Year to see how much momentum this movement still has. I believe many people here tire of the street violence and vandalism. It might be possible to simply wait and then make a final round of investigations.
Do you think that the protests will hurt or help the pro-Democracy camp in LegCo?
by Albrenia » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:41 am
by Thermodolia » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:42 am
by New haven america » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:43 am
by New Paine » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:47 am
by Thermodolia » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:49 am
by The Free Joy State » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:55 am
Heloin wrote:Send the police officers who have destroyed Hong Kong to jail. Remove all members of the LegCo who aren’t elected by the people of Hong Kong. Have free fair elections for the people of Hong Kong. Leave China or have China guarantee true regional autonomy that’s enforced by a third party. Those are the points China will never accept, but those are the only way Hong Kong will see true peace outside of the death of the city and the people who live there.
by Pasong Tirad » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:00 am
Albrenia wrote:Not everyone who supports the protesters would go out and protest either, I suspect. Many would be too scared or otherwise unable to take part, so just counting the people in each protest isn't accurate as the sum total of support they'd have.
Just sayin'.
by Thermodolia » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:03 am
Pasong Tirad wrote:Albrenia wrote:Not everyone who supports the protesters would go out and protest either, I suspect. Many would be too scared or otherwise unable to take part, so just counting the people in each protest isn't accurate as the sum total of support they'd have.
Just sayin'.
Try telling IM that. Any sign of lower protester numbers is a sign that the movement is weakening. Any sign that they're getting bigger or, say, massively winning an election, is just a fluke.
by Gormwood » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:11 am
by The Free Joy State » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:17 am
Earlier in the afternoon, more than 1,000 people had attended a peaceful rally, waving Uighur flags and posters as they took part in the latest demonstration in more than six months of unrest.
A mixed crowd of young and older people, dressed in black and wearing masks to hide their identities, held up signs reading: “Free Uyghur, Free Hong Kong” and “Fake ‘autonomy’ in China results in genocide”.
[...]
“I think basic freedom and independence should exist for all people, not just for Hong Kong,” said a 41-year-old woman surnamed Wong, who attended the protest with her husband.
United Nations experts and activists say at least 1 million Uighurs and members of other largely Muslim minority groups have been detained in camps in Xinjiang since 2017 under a campaign that has been condemned by the US and other countries.
Beijing says it is providing vocational training to help stamp out separatism and to teach new skills. It denies any mistreatment of Uighurs.
Protests in Hong Kong are in their seventh month, albeit in a relative year-end lull. Many residents are angry at what they see as Chinese meddling in the freedoms promised to the former British colony when it returned to Chinese rule in 1997.
China denies interfering and says it is committed to the “one country, two systems” formula put in place at that time and has blamed foreign forces for fomenting unrest.
On Saturday, Hong Kong riot police swept into several shopping centres, chasing off and arresting demonstrators pressing their demands in the peak shopping weekend before Christmas.
The police’s heavy-handed clampdown on demonstrations and frequent use of teargas have incensed many protesters, whose demands include full democracy and an independent investigation into perceived police brutality.
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:13 am
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:16 am
The Free Joy State wrote:Thermodolia wrote:IM should really get a job as a CCP propagandist
Successful propaganda is supposed to be vaguely believable...
That said, let's not turn our shiny, new thread into an IM thread.
So, focusing on the Hong Kong protests: Hong Kong police clashed with protesters rallying in support of the Uighurs:Earlier in the afternoon, more than 1,000 people had attended a peaceful rally, waving Uighur flags and posters as they took part in the latest demonstration in more than six months of unrest.
A mixed crowd of young and older people, dressed in black and wearing masks to hide their identities, held up signs reading: “Free Uyghur, Free Hong Kong” and “Fake ‘autonomy’ in China results in genocide”.
[...]
“I think basic freedom and independence should exist for all people, not just for Hong Kong,” said a 41-year-old woman surnamed Wong, who attended the protest with her husband.
United Nations experts and activists say at least 1 million Uighurs and members of other largely Muslim minority groups have been detained in camps in Xinjiang since 2017 under a campaign that has been condemned by the US and other countries.
Beijing says it is providing vocational training to help stamp out separatism and to teach new skills. It denies any mistreatment of Uighurs.
Protests in Hong Kong are in their seventh month, albeit in a relative year-end lull. Many residents are angry at what they see as Chinese meddling in the freedoms promised to the former British colony when it returned to Chinese rule in 1997.
China denies interfering and says it is committed to the “one country, two systems” formula put in place at that time and has blamed foreign forces for fomenting unrest.
On Saturday, Hong Kong riot police swept into several shopping centres, chasing off and arresting demonstrators pressing their demands in the peak shopping weekend before Christmas.
The police’s heavy-handed clampdown on demonstrations and frequent use of teargas have incensed many protesters, whose demands include full democracy and an independent investigation into perceived police brutality.
I like what the 41-year-old protestor said: "I think basic freedom and independence should exist for all people, not just for Hong Kong."
Basic freedom. Human dignity and rights. That's all people want. That's all most anybody wants.
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:18 am
by Heloin » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:28 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:The Free Joy State wrote:Successful propaganda is supposed to be vaguely believable...
That said, let's not turn our shiny, new thread into an IM thread.
So, focusing on the Hong Kong protests: Hong Kong police clashed with protesters rallying in support of the Uighurs:Earlier in the afternoon, more than 1,000 people had attended a peaceful rally, waving Uighur flags and posters as they took part in the latest demonstration in more than six months of unrest.
A mixed crowd of young and older people, dressed in black and wearing masks to hide their identities, held up signs reading: “Free Uyghur, Free Hong Kong” and “Fake ‘autonomy’ in China results in genocide”.
[...]
“I think basic freedom and independence should exist for all people, not just for Hong Kong,” said a 41-year-old woman surnamed Wong, who attended the protest with her husband.
United Nations experts and activists say at least 1 million Uighurs and members of other largely Muslim minority groups have been detained in camps in Xinjiang since 2017 under a campaign that has been condemned by the US and other countries.
Beijing says it is providing vocational training to help stamp out separatism and to teach new skills. It denies any mistreatment of Uighurs.
Protests in Hong Kong are in their seventh month, albeit in a relative year-end lull. Many residents are angry at what they see as Chinese meddling in the freedoms promised to the former British colony when it returned to Chinese rule in 1997.
China denies interfering and says it is committed to the “one country, two systems” formula put in place at that time and has blamed foreign forces for fomenting unrest.
On Saturday, Hong Kong riot police swept into several shopping centres, chasing off and arresting demonstrators pressing their demands in the peak shopping weekend before Christmas.
The police’s heavy-handed clampdown on demonstrations and frequent use of teargas have incensed many protesters, whose demands include full democracy and an independent investigation into perceived police brutality.
I like what the 41-year-old protestor said: "I think basic freedom and independence should exist for all people, not just for Hong Kong."
Basic freedom. Human dignity and rights. That's all people want. That's all most anybody wants.
This is not the case. The demands of the protestors are far in excess of this. Specifically, the demand that all protestors (regardless of rioting behavior in a case by case basis) be pardoned is basically calling for vandalism and attacking of the police and shops to be condoned if a big enough crowd dies it.
Also, the protestors demand political power in that they insist on a specific CE stepping down. There’s nothing “basic” about it.
If the protests were really about human dignity and rights then they wouldn’t have caused all this destruction in the city. In doing so, and destroying tons of business, the movement shows a reckless disregard and double standard.
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