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Hong Kong II - Ragnarök

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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I believe..

It will all die out and HK will slowly be subsumed into an authoritarian China
80
19%
It will all die out but international pressure will come to bear on China to change
18
4%
It will continue yet HK will slowly be subsumed into an authoritarian China
140
34%
It will continue and international pressure will come to bear on China to change
65
16%
Shit's going down yo'
57
14%
Hasselhoff will wake from his slumber and the chosen one will rise again
32
8%
I like clicking polls.. I mean, a bit like democracy I guess.. but i just like clicking polls
17
4%
Other
7
2%
 
Total votes : 416

User avatar
Pilipinas and Malaya
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1436
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:00 pm

I haven’t found a proper article to link, but it seems that the US has now passed a bill that would grant Hong Kongers refugee status.
Federative States of Pilipinas and Malaya
Member of Europe
Hello there, welcome to my thoughts.
Yes, my nation does represent a good chunk of my views, deal with it.
I still like K-Pop, no, I am not one of those very annoying stans.
Soups are among my favourite kinds of food.
Civ 6's Frontier Pass seems very exciting, maybe we'll finally get a Filipino civ?

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Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13750
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:02 pm

The first person to be arrested under the new Security Law is a man who was holding an independence flag, the black version of the normal HK flag, in Causeway Bay.. and so it begins..
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13166
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:05 am

So the Anschluss is finally here... and then it's "Wayward Sudetenland's" turn. Who will become Poland?
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13750
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:12 am

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:I haven’t found a proper article to link, but it seems that the US has now passed a bill that would grant Hong Kongers refugee status.


Here you go.. https://www.wsj.com/articles/congress-l ... -residents
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
Bengal and Assam
Diplomat
 
Posts: 766
Founded: Jun 18, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bengal and Assam » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:38 am

I heard that some bloke was arrested just coz he had an IndyHK flag...
A country with a mixed Bengali, British and Oriental population and culture. NSStats not Used...
Led By Yuuhi Tsumikado... Mostly MT, with some elements of FT.
BBSOne:Prime Minister Susan Itai's party proposes a motion to "nominally end" enforced National Service in Bengal, with no penalties for draft dodgers, other than their right to vote, state funded subsidies, Commonwealth free-travel rights, and education and healthcare grants taken away. Critics call it a move to create "a second class, less privileged citizenship" among Kawanese.

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Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13750
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:49 am

Bengal and Assam wrote:I heard that some bloke was arrested just coz he had an IndyHK flag...


Yup, though more now..

As of 3 pm, around 30 people had been arrested on suspicion of participating in an unlawful assembly, violating the national security law, obstructing a police officer and possessing offensive weapons, according to NowTV.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 831
Founded: May 23, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:36 am

Time for a violent uprising as you all have nothing to lose now.
I'm NOT Novus America. We are two different players just with similar flags.
Will accept Telegrams. I will debate via telegram if you debate civilly.
American Nationalist & Anti-military interventionist.
The U.S. Constitution.
Anti-imperialism is often code for Anti-west.

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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27262
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:31 am

Crossposting from UKPol:

Up to three million Hong Kong residents are to be offered the chance to settle in the UK and ultimately apply for citizenship.

About 350,000 UK passport holders, and 2.6 million others eligible, will be able to come to the UK for five years. After a further year they will be able to apply for citizenship.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53246899
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6868
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:03 am

Wasn't the "HONG KONG INDEPENDENCE" flag hoisted by the first arrested man prefixed with a very subtle "No To [...]"? :blink:
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP) ~ Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador
World Assembly Delegate of Auctor * 73rd Cup of Harmony winners

Security Council:
A: SC#250 "Repeal "Liberate Femdom Empire"" (87%)
A: SC#251 "Commend Alasdair I Frosticus" (91%)
A: SC#267 "Repeal "Liberate The East Pacific"" (90%)

General Assembly:
A: GA#484 "Disease Naming Compact" (54%)
C: GA#491 "Rights of the employed" (54%)

Issues:
C: Issue #1115 "One in the Arm for @@LEADER@@?"
Quoth RiderSyl: "If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead."

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27262
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:13 am

Tinhampton wrote:Wasn't the "HONG KONG INDEPENDENCE" flag hoisted by the first arrested man prefixed with a very subtle "No To [...]"? :blink:

It did. It was probably a way to avoid getting detained under the new shitty law, but the police making the arrest either can't read properly or just didn't buy it.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 831
Founded: May 23, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:32 am

Any members of the 50 cent army here to say this is somehow good?


Edit:
BBC wrote:The law can also apparently be broken from abroad by non-residents, under Article 38


That's stupid. Looks like we in America can violate the law. What balls.

Fearing repercussions, political activists are resigning their posts and one pro-democracy protester, who asked to remain anonymous, told me that ordinary people are now deleting posts on social media.

Many people are just stopping talking about politics, and stopping talking about freedom and democracy because they want to save their own lives. They want to save their freedom and avoid being arrested.

One contact of mine, a lawyer and human rights activist, sent me a message shortly after the law was passed. Please delete everything on this chat, he wrote.

Instead of deleting messages and surrendering, these people should take up arms. Democracy in France or America did not come by asking the kings nicely. It came out of the barrel of a gun.
Last edited by The Reformed American Republic on Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm NOT Novus America. We are two different players just with similar flags.
Will accept Telegrams. I will debate via telegram if you debate civilly.
American Nationalist & Anti-military interventionist.
The U.S. Constitution.
Anti-imperialism is often code for Anti-west.

User avatar
Pilipinas and Malaya
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1436
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:05 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Any members of the 50 cent army here to say this is somehow good?


Edit:
BBC wrote:The law can also apparently be broken from abroad by non-residents, under Article 38


That's stupid. Looks like we in America can violate the law. What balls.

Fearing repercussions, political activists are resigning their posts and one pro-democracy protester, who asked to remain anonymous, told me that ordinary people are now deleting posts on social media.

Many people are just stopping talking about politics, and stopping talking about freedom and democracy because they want to save their own lives. They want to save their freedom and avoid being arrested.

One contact of mine, a lawyer and human rights activist, sent me a message shortly after the law was passed. Please delete everything on this chat, he wrote.

Instead of deleting messages and surrendering, these people should take up arms. Democracy in France or America did not come by asking the kings nicely. It came out of the barrel of a gun.


I, for one, am probably never going to be able to travel to Hong Kong simply because of the views I hold here. I'm not exactly sure a rebellion is the best option either, now that the act has passed, China now has free reign over the police in HK. If a rebellion is ever to happen, China is unlikely to regret taking away and detaining all of them.

Unless the HKers force the Chinese hand by doing extreme displays of force which would result in many casualties, then the world will turn their heads towards Hong Kong as the Chinese raze the city. That is really only a last resort for both sides and wouldn't bode well for either one.
Federative States of Pilipinas and Malaya
Member of Europe
Hello there, welcome to my thoughts.
Yes, my nation does represent a good chunk of my views, deal with it.
I still like K-Pop, no, I am not one of those very annoying stans.
Soups are among my favourite kinds of food.
Civ 6's Frontier Pass seems very exciting, maybe we'll finally get a Filipino civ?

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27262
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:25 am

A former employee of the UK's Hong Kong consulate who alleged he was tortured in China has been granted political asylum in Britain.

Simon Cheng, a Hong Kong citizen, was detained on a business trip to mainland China for 15 days last August. Beijing accused Mr Cheng of inciting political unrest amid anti-government protests in Hong Kong. He denied the charges, telling the BBC he had been beaten and forced to sign false confessions while in custody.

Mr Cheng was working for the UK embassy in Hong Kong, charged with generating interest in investing in Scotland among the Chinese business community. But as the 2019 protests began to grow, he also volunteered to collect information on the status of the protests for the consulate - for the purposes of observation.

He went missing on 8 August after being detained at the border on the way back from the Chinese city of Shenzhen. Mr Cheng says he was held for 15 days during which time he was "shackled, blindfolded and hooded", held in stress positions and beaten if he moved. The questioning focused on his role in the protests. He also said he saw other Hong Kong protesters during his time in custody.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53252533
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33285
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:28 am

The new law from China being forced on Hong Kong is shit and Xi Jinping and his winnie the pooh ass can go get fucked.

User avatar
United England n Wales
Attaché
 
Posts: 82
Founded: Sep 09, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby United England n Wales » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:28 am

The New California Republic wrote:Crossposting from UKPol:

Up to three million Hong Kong residents are to be offered the chance to settle in the UK and ultimately apply for citizenship.

About 350,000 UK passport holders, and 2.6 million others eligible, will be able to come to the UK for five years. After a further year they will be able to apply for citizenship.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53246899

Yep I fully support the UK gov, doing this.

The PRC has ripped up the 1985 Sino-British joint declaration. >:(
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:The new law from China being forced on Hong Kong is shit and Xi Jinping and his winnie the pooh ass can go get fucked.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-china-53247144?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5efc95741aef1f0655fca30d%26New%20national%20security%20law%20%27Orwellian%27%20-%20Lord%20Patten%262020-07-01T14%3A16%3A53.846Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:6d3c99ca-0be7-4d0f-a5a4-7793abc0cdaf&pinned_post_asset_id=5efc95741aef1f0655fca30d&pinned_post_type=share
George Orewells 1984 in a nutshell
Last edited by United England n Wales on Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
President of Old Zealand .
WA Delegate.
Executive Chairman of the Democratic Centrist Party for Old Zealand
Supports Hong Kong, against PRC.
FREE HONG KONG.
Political centrist
Anti-Trump
Male who is half-English, half-Scottish Living in the UK.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13166
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:32 am

Replacing diplomatic recognition of ROC with PRC was a grave mistake. Change my mind.

User avatar
United England n Wales
Attaché
 
Posts: 82
Founded: Sep 09, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby United England n Wales » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:38 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Replacing diplomatic recognition of ROC with PRC was a grave mistake. Change my mind.

I still can not understand why they thought that was ever a good idea.
President of Old Zealand .
WA Delegate.
Executive Chairman of the Democratic Centrist Party for Old Zealand
Supports Hong Kong, against PRC.
FREE HONG KONG.
Political centrist
Anti-Trump
Male who is half-English, half-Scottish Living in the UK.

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 831
Founded: May 23, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:41 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Replacing diplomatic recognition of ROC with PRC was a grave mistake. Change my mind.

No, because I agree with you.
I'm NOT Novus America. We are two different players just with similar flags.
Will accept Telegrams. I will debate via telegram if you debate civilly.
American Nationalist & Anti-military interventionist.
The U.S. Constitution.
Anti-imperialism is often code for Anti-west.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13166
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:43 am

United England n Wales wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Replacing diplomatic recognition of ROC with PRC was a grave mistake. Change my mind.

I still can not understand why they thought that was ever a good idea.

Nixon et al clearly thought playing PRC vs USSR involved recognising PRC... which wasn't the case.

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 831
Founded: May 23, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:44 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
United England n Wales wrote:I still can not understand why they thought that was ever a good idea.

Nixon et al clearly thought playing PRC vs USSR involved recognising PRC... which wasn't the case.

It was also done for business interests.
I'm NOT Novus America. We are two different players just with similar flags.
Will accept Telegrams. I will debate via telegram if you debate civilly.
American Nationalist & Anti-military interventionist.
The U.S. Constitution.
Anti-imperialism is often code for Anti-west.

User avatar
-Astoria-
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 423
Founded: Oct 27, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria- » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:52 am

United England n Wales wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Replacing diplomatic recognition of ROC with PRC was a grave mistake. Change my mind.

I still can not understand why they thought that was ever a good idea.
IIRC to pretty much dunk on the USSR, which was at the time having a bit of a split with the PRC à la Yugoslavia.

Then again, at that time the ROC wasn't exactly in the best period...

ASTORIA - the other third of F7's official representatives w/ Nooooooooooooooo & Valentine Z.
Please disregard any OOC posts made before 1/1/2020 - new year, new changes [& hopefully being less of a massive bellend].
BUGGER IT - this flag is IC now. [luckily I haven't made the previous ones canon] | -Astoria is my main - use their factbooks if you see this nation.
Politiscales | LeftValues | RightValues


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New Bremerton
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1326
Founded: Jul 20, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Bremerton » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:18 am

I have family in HK and I fear for their safety. I can't even say one word on FB about China from the comfort of my home in Malaysia. Not one single word. It's just as well I scrubbed my Facebook Timeline way back in March when the Malaysian government unexpectedly changed hands and I initially feared the worst. The bullshit law also applies to non-ethnic Chinese Americans, Europeans, and private companies that have no ties whatsoever to HK or China. If you're planning on visiting or even just transiting through HK anytime soon, be sure to scrub your social media posts well in advance or set them to Private or Me Only. Also do so if you have friends or family in HK. Or not. It's entirely up to you.

I just want to applaud Britain, Canada, the United States, and Taiwan for taking concrete steps to ensure that the people of HK have a viable escape route. Your solidarity in our time of need will not be forgotten. Here's to hoping Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, and Singapore follow suit. I'd love to see hundreds of thousands of HKers immigrate to my country and completely transform it from the ground up. My country would be unrecognizable if that ever happened, and in a very good way. I really miss their food in particular. Cantonese also happens to be widely spoken natively (with a funny Malaysian accent), particularly in and around KL and Ipoh, by many Malaysian Chinese. The people of HK can aid the locals in correcting their faulty pronunciation (particularly of English loanwords, a dead giveaway) and ensuring the survival of the Cantonese language for generations to come. :p

I'm not sure it's worth risking my personal safety just to savor the city's amazing food one more time. The National Security Law will likely result in the forced closure of countless yellow businesses, forcing customers to exclusively patronize pro-Beijing businesses.
LIBERATE HONG KONG. REVOLUTION OF OUR TIMES.
CHINA LIED. PEOPLE DIED. PRC DELENDA EST.
ALL LIVES MATTER.

Glorious Hong Kong is my alt.

User avatar
United England n Wales
Attaché
 
Posts: 82
Founded: Sep 09, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby United England n Wales » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:20 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Nixon et al clearly thought playing PRC vs USSR involved recognising PRC... which wasn't the case.

It was also done for business interests.
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
United England n Wales wrote:I still can not understand why they thought that was ever a good idea.

Nixon et al clearly thought playing PRC vs USSR involved recognising PRC... which wasn't the case.

Siding with the lesser of the two evils never really works out in politics in the long run.
With
-Astoria- wrote:
United England n Wales wrote:I still can not understand why they thought that was ever a good idea.
IIRC to pretty much dunk on the USSR, which was at the time having a bit of a split with the PRC à la Yugoslavia.

Then again, at that time the ROC wasn't exactly in the best period...
Nixon no surprise there tbh.
Yer true about the ROC
President of Old Zealand .
WA Delegate.
Executive Chairman of the Democratic Centrist Party for Old Zealand
Supports Hong Kong, against PRC.
FREE HONG KONG.
Political centrist
Anti-Trump
Male who is half-English, half-Scottish Living in the UK.

User avatar
New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9144
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:43 am

Visiting HK will be exactly like visiting the mainland, where any foreign citizen is a hostage-in-waiting if the Chinese government is angry at the government in question.

Join the Lazarus Reform Club for healthy discussion on Lazarus.

Holds silly opinions on some things, and likes animals of all kinds, including the scary ones.
Pro: Individualism, Humanism, Human Rights, Internationalism & Free Markets, Democracy, Decentralization, Treaty of Sèvres, Free Hong Kong.
Against: Social Conservatism, Religious Extremism, Extreme Nationalism, Racism, Homo/Trans phobia, Authoritarianism.

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34660
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:53 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
United England n Wales wrote:I still can not understand why they thought that was ever a good idea.

Nixon et al clearly thought playing PRC vs USSR involved recognising PRC... which wasn't the case.


Nixon did not support de recognition of the ROC though. Nixon never officially recognized the PRC and continued to recognize and support the ROC. Nixon supported unofficial ties with the PRC while simultaneously backing the ROC, he was keeping the ROC as a hedge against the PRC. Nixon never trusted the PRC.

Carter recognized the PRC and dropped recognition of the ROC.
Carter is to blame for that really. Not Nixon as Nixon’s policy was better.

Unofficially recognizing the PRC while also continuing to recognize the ROC made sense in the context of the 70s to early 80s, Nixon’s “two Chinas” policy did make sense at the time, (Carter’s stupidity of supporting the PRC’s “one China” did not) but anyways it all ceased to have meaning after 1989. Had we cut off the PRC then (and ideally still be recognizing the ROC as Nixon planned) things would be fine. Continuing Carter’s policies into the 90s and beyond was the mistake.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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