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Hong Kong II - Ragnarök

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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I believe..

It will all die out and HK will slowly be subsumed into an authoritarian China
90
20%
It will all die out but international pressure will come to bear on China to change
19
4%
It will continue yet HK will slowly be subsumed into an authoritarian China
156
34%
It will continue and international pressure will come to bear on China to change
70
15%
Shit's going down yo'
60
13%
Hasselhoff will wake from his slumber and the chosen one will rise again
35
8%
I like clicking polls.. I mean, a bit like democracy I guess.. but i just like clicking polls
20
4%
Other
7
2%
 
Total votes : 457

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Pilipinas and Malaya
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1893
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:31 am

Diahon wrote:i'm awake and i'm sorry for this dil since this is not about hong kong at all but REAL SHIT

China is sending military planes near Taiwan with increasing frequency in what appears to be a stepping up of its threat to use force to take control of the island, Taiwan’s foreign minister said Wednesday.


OHSHITOHFUCKOHSHITOHFUCKOHSHITOHFUCKOHSHITOHFUCKOHSHITOHFUCK


One can only imagine who’s next if Taiwan falls.
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Adamede
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Posts: 154
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Adamede » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:23 pm

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Diahon wrote:i'm awake and i'm sorry for this dil since this is not about hong kong at all but REAL SHIT



OHSHITOHFUCKOHSHITOHFUCKOHSHITOHFUCKOHSHITOHFUCKOHSHITOHFUCK


One can only imagine who’s next if Taiwan falls.

If the PRC is able to gain control of Taiwan most of the eastern Pacific is within their grasp.
21yo American male. Political beliefs lean classical liberal/libertarian. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

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New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9204
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Rogernomics » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:34 pm

Adamede wrote:
Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
One can only imagine who’s next if Taiwan falls.

If the PRC is able to gain control of Taiwan most of the eastern Pacific is within their grasp.
Big thing is if, as it would require the US to let it be invaded unopposed, as even under the best case scenario for China, it would take months to develop a beach head, build a supply chain, and totally blockade the island.

Holds silly opinions on some things, and likes animals of all kinds, including the scary ones.
Pro: Individualism, Humanism, Human Rights, Internationalism & Free Markets, Democracy, Decentralization, Treaty of Sèvres, Free Hong Kong.
Against: Social Conservatism, Religious Extremism, Extreme Nationalism, Racism, Homo/Trans phobia, Authoritarianism.

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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36201
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:34 pm

Adamede wrote:
Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
One can only imagine who’s next if Taiwan falls.

If the PRC is able to gain control of Taiwan most of the eastern Pacific is within their grasp.


Plus it will have them learn the lesson they can invade anyone and get away with it.
If you give a mouse a cookie...
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Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Adamede
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 154
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Adamede » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:37 pm

New Rogernomics wrote:
Adamede wrote:If the PRC is able to gain control of Taiwan most of the eastern Pacific is within their grasp.
Big thing is if, as it would require the US to let it be invaded unopposed, as even under the best case scenario for China, it would take months to develop a beach head, build a supply chain, and totally blockade the island.

Oh yah definitely. I expect this current situation to not go beyond some peacock strutting. But then again the rest of 2020 has been a shit show so who knows?

Novus America wrote:
Adamede wrote:If the PRC is able to gain control of Taiwan most of the eastern Pacific is within their grasp.


Plus it will have them learn the lesson they can invade anyone and get away with it.
If you give a mouse a cookie...

Thankfully for the last couple decades China's foreign interventions have mostly been failures, but it remains to be seen what the future will hold.
21yo American male. Political beliefs lean classical liberal/libertarian. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36201
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:39 pm

Adamede wrote:
New Rogernomics wrote:Big thing is if, as it would require the US to let it be invaded unopposed, as even under the best case scenario for China, it would take months to develop a beach head, build a supply chain, and totally blockade the island.

Oh yah definitely. I expect this current situation to not go beyond some peacock strutting. But then again the rest of 2020 has been a shit show so who knows?

Novus America wrote:
Plus it will have them learn the lesson they can invade anyone and get away with it.
If you give a mouse a cookie...

Thankfully for the last couple decades China's foreign interventions have mostly been failures, but it remains to be seen what the future will hold.


True, but we need to ensure it is a failure if they try invading Taiwan. It would be grounds for war, although perhaps this is best for the Taiwan thread, although if the PRC starts and loses a war, perhaps a successful uprising against the PRC in Hong Kong becomes more likely.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Adamede
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 154
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Adamede » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:41 pm

Novus America wrote:
Adamede wrote:Oh yah definitely. I expect this current situation to not go beyond some peacock strutting. But then again the rest of 2020 has been a shit show so who knows?


Thankfully for the last couple decades China's foreign interventions have mostly been failures, but it remains to be seen what the future will hold.


True, but we need to ensure it is a failure if they try invading Taiwan. It would be grounds for war, although perhaps this is best for the Taiwan thread, although if the PRC starts and loses a war, perhaps a successful uprising against the PRC in Hong Kong becomes more likely.

What we need to do to China is box them in like we did with Russia in Europe. Pretty much every nation in Asia with a Pacific Coastline hates China as it is right now, and as the biggest rival to China the US could use that to it's advantage.
21yo American male. Political beliefs lean classical liberal/libertarian. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36201
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Adamede wrote:
Novus America wrote:
True, but we need to ensure it is a failure if they try invading Taiwan. It would be grounds for war, although perhaps this is best for the Taiwan thread, although if the PRC starts and loses a war, perhaps a successful uprising against the PRC in Hong Kong becomes more likely.

What we need to do to China is box them in like we did with Russia in Europe. Pretty much every nation in Asia with a Pacific Coastline hates China as it is right now, and as the biggest rival to China the US could use that to it's advantage.


I absolutely agree. We might not be able to save Hong Kong, but we can still save others from sharing its fate.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9204
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Rogernomics » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:49 pm

Novus America wrote:True, but we need to ensure it is a failure if they try invading Taiwan. It would be grounds for war, although perhaps this is best for the Taiwan thread, although if the PRC starts and loses a war, perhaps a successful uprising against the PRC in Hong Kong becomes more likely.
As long as the US never publicly hesitates to state it will defend Taiwan, the island should be safe. The US as a final card to play could place nuclear weapons on the Island, and recognize the independence of Taiwan, and the CCP could do nothing to stop it. China likes to play up their strength and capabilities to invade, though if the US put it's nuclear umbrella over the island, they'd face the same issue as the USSR did in Berlin AKA they could invade, but it would start WW3.

Holds silly opinions on some things, and likes animals of all kinds, including the scary ones.
Pro: Individualism, Humanism, Human Rights, Internationalism & Free Markets, Democracy, Decentralization, Treaty of Sèvres, Free Hong Kong.
Against: Social Conservatism, Religious Extremism, Extreme Nationalism, Racism, Homo/Trans phobia, Authoritarianism.

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New Visayan Islands
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3291
Founded: Jan 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Visayan Islands » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:47 pm

Novus America wrote:
Adamede wrote:What we need to do to China is box them in like we did with Russia in Europe. Pretty much every nation in Asia with a Pacific Coastline hates China as it is right now, and as the biggest rival to China the US could use that to it's advantage.


I absolutely agree. We might not be able to save Hong Kong, but we can still save others from sharing its fate.

Like a cell loaded to the gills with virus particles telling immune cells "this is the virus that is currently wrecking my shit. Avenge me!"
Joined the ranks of Moderation in the wee hours of the morning of September 19th, AD 2020.

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The Yellow Emperor
Attaché
 
Posts: 72
Founded: Apr 06, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Yellow Emperor » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:06 pm


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Glorious Hong Kong
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 379
Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:50 am

Hong Kong bars 12 opposition candidates from election

I REALLY hope the pro-democrats have a Plan B because this is totally fucked up.

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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28745
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:52 am

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Hong Kong bars 12 opposition candidates from election

I REALLY hope the pro-democrats have a Plan B because this is totally fucked up.

Lol, a sham democracy, where anyone the Party doesn't like is blocked from running in the election.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13814
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:59 am

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Hong Kong bars 12 opposition candidates from election

I REALLY hope the pro-democrats have a Plan B because this is totally fucked up.

Well this was totally expected of the Generalgouvernement.

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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36201
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:51 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Hong Kong bars 12 opposition candidates from election

I REALLY hope the pro-democrats have a Plan B because this is totally fucked up.

Lol, a sham democracy, where anyone the Party doesn't like is blocked from running in the election.


Note that you cannot run if you:
“expressed "an objection in principle" to the imposition of the national security law by central authorities in Beijing”
“expressed "an intention to exercise the functions of a LegCo Member by indiscriminately voting down" any legislative proposals introduced by the Hong Kong government, "so as to force the government to accede to certain political demands"“

So basically you cannot run if you disagree with the government.
It is now going straight open dictatorship.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13814
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:52 am

Novus America wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Lol, a sham democracy, where anyone the Party doesn't like is blocked from running in the election.


Note that you cannot run if you:
“expressed "an objection in principle" to the imposition of the national security law by central authorities in Beijing”
“expressed "an intention to exercise the functions of a LegCo Member by indiscriminately voting down" any legislative proposals introduced by the Hong Kong government, "so as to force the government to accede to certain political demands"“

So basically you cannot run if you disagree with the government.

Welcome to the Reich Protectorate I guess?

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Glorious Hong Kong
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 379
Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:55 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Note that you cannot run if you:
“expressed "an objection in principle" to the imposition of the national security law by central authorities in Beijing”
“expressed "an intention to exercise the functions of a LegCo Member by indiscriminately voting down" any legislative proposals introduced by the Hong Kong government, "so as to force the government to accede to certain political demands"“

So basically you cannot run if you disagree with the government.

Welcome to the Reich Protectorate I guess?


Sieg Heil!

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Glorious Hong Kong
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 379
Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:30 am

Hong Kong security law: Four students arrested for 'inciting secession'

Four students have been arrested in Hong Kong in the first police operation to enforce China's new national security law for the territory.

The four were detained for "inciting secession" on social media after the new law began on 1 July, police said.

A pro-independence group said those arrested included its former leader, Tony Chung.

Beijing's controversial new law criminalises subversion, secession and collusion with foreign forces.

Previous arrests under the new law have been made for slogans and banners at protests.

Critics say China's new law erodes Hong Kong's freedoms. But Beijing has dismissed the criticism, saying that the law is necessary to stop the type of pro-democracy protests seen in Hong Kong during much of 2019.
What do we know about the arrests?

Three men and a woman aged between 16 and 21 were arrested on suspicion of organising and inciting secession, police said.

"Our sources and investigation show that the group recently announced on social media to set up [sic] an organisation that advocates Hong Kong independence," said Li Kwai-wah from the new national security unit inside Hong Kong police.

Computers, phones and documents were also seized, he said.

The students were former members of or had links to Studentlocalism, a pro-independence youth group. It was disbanded in June before the new security law came into force and said it would continue to campaign from abroad.

But Mr Li said overseas activity could still be prosecuted.

"If anyone who tells others that he advocates violating the national security law from abroad, even he does that from overseas, we have the jurisdiction to investigate these kind of cases," he said.


Photos posted on social media showed Mr Chung being led away in handcuffs in the district of Yuen Long.

Studentlocalism said Mr Chung was detained at about 20:50 local time (12:50 GMT). Police officers also took away items in several bags, the group said.

Prominent rights activist Joshua Wong said Mr Chung had been followed by police for several days. He said Mr Chung had been arrested for writing a Facebook post on "China's nationalism" and alleged that the detainees' phones had been hacked shortly after their arrest.

"Tonight's arrest will clearly send a chilling effect on HK online speech," Mr Wong tweeted.


I support Hong Kong Independence and I'm typing this from overseas. Arrest me, motherfuckers.

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MGTOWia
Envoy
 
Posts: 222
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby MGTOWia » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:53 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Hong Kong bars 12 opposition candidates from election

I REALLY hope the pro-democrats have a Plan B because this is totally fucked up.

Lol, a sham democracy, where anyone the Party doesn't like is blocked from running in the election.


ZOMG you mean the Chicoms are reneging on that 50-year "one country, two systems" deal?! SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

Apparently, the thing to do at this point is NOT to say anything in public, but keep it quiet until after you get elected. Maybe a hopeless task.

The CCP is in dire need of replacement and disposal on the ash heap of history.
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Diahon
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1588
Founded: Apr 01, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diahon » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:58 pm

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Hong Kong bars 12 opposition candidates from election

I REALLY hope the pro-democrats have a Plan B because this is totally fucked up.


Plan B: Have every last Hong Kong residemt file their candidacy for wharever's still open. If Xi wishes to reap, let him reap through millions.

Plan C: Turn up en masse, again, and camp out for months. Do not establishments or the police; consent to harrassment, beatings, and death. Even death is better than a lingering life unable to exercise your rights.
FLEE.

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The Yellow Emperor
Attaché
 
Posts: 72
Founded: Apr 06, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Yellow Emperor » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:57 pm

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Hong Kong bars 12 opposition candidates from election

I REALLY hope the pro-democrats have a Plan B because this is totally fucked up.

I'm glad that Hong Kong is getting a chance as I consider, a restart on society with the National Security Law, but I do beg to define further with certain areas, such as to how they gather information, on what does it constitute as a breach of the National Security Law, and further in the legislation, I hope to see regulations related to the legislation. The youth and the group of localists have caused damage as we've seen. Doxxing certain members of the community is disgusting frankly.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13814
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:05 am

>PRC
>Regulating their very own Gestapo
https://www.cah.utexas.edu/db/dmr/image_lg/di_05812.jpg

User avatar
Diahon
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1588
Founded: Apr 01, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diahon » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:08 am

The Yellow Emperor wrote:
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Hong Kong bars 12 opposition candidates from election

I REALLY hope the pro-democrats have a Plan B because this is totally fucked up.

I'm glad that Hong Kong is getting a chance as I consider, a restart on society with the National Security Law, but I do beg to define further with certain areas, such as to how they gather information, on what does it constitute as a breach of the National Security Law, and further in the legislation, I hope to see regulations related to the legislation. The youth and the group of localists have caused damage as we've seen. Doxxing certain members of the community is disgusting frankly.


you won't

frankly, the cogs are now being taught to spin wound and wound till they break

do cogs speak out? doubt it
FLEE.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13814
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:15 am

Diahon wrote:
The Yellow Emperor wrote:I'm glad that Hong Kong is getting a chance as I consider, a restart on society with the National Security Law, but I do beg to define further with certain areas, such as to how they gather information, on what does it constitute as a breach of the National Security Law, and further in the legislation, I hope to see regulations related to the legislation. The youth and the group of localists have caused damage as we've seen. Doxxing certain members of the community is disgusting frankly.


you won't

frankly, the cogs are now being taught to spin wound and wound till they break

do cogs speak out? doubt it

This is the same political entity that had students run over by tanks under the rule of a "benigner" emperor (benign compared to Chairman Xi at least). Why would anyone expect them to regulate their own tyranny?

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-Astoria-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1754
Founded: Oct 27, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria- » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:45 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Diahon wrote:
you won't

frankly, the cogs are now being taught to spin wound and wound till they break

do cogs speak out? doubt it

This is the same political entity that had students run over by tanks under the rule of a "benigner" emperor (benign compared to Chairman Xi at least). Why would anyone expect them to regulate their own tyranny?

Pigs still haven't sprouted wings, so we still wait.

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