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Hong Kong II - Ragnarök

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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I believe..

It will all die out and HK will slowly be subsumed into an authoritarian China
113
21%
It will all die out but international pressure will come to bear on China to change
20
4%
It will continue yet HK will slowly be subsumed into an authoritarian China
185
34%
It will continue and international pressure will come to bear on China to change
76
14%
Shit's going down yo'
72
13%
Hasselhoff will wake from his slumber and the chosen one will rise again
39
7%
I like clicking polls.. I mean, a bit like democracy I guess.. but i just like clicking polls
33
6%
Other
9
2%
 
Total votes : 547

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27909
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun May 31, 2020 5:26 am

Atsvea wrote:uh, no, im an hiker and you can get permanent residency after spending 7 years in hk. you don’t need chinese citizenship. you do need chinese citizenship for an hk passport, but you can get approved in hk and not the mainland. and living in a country makes you more qualified than people on the internet

Image
Tuthina is from the very same city you live in. Allegedly. For all we know you could be an MSS agent.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Sun May 31, 2020 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Sun May 31, 2020 5:30 am

The New California Republic wrote:
-Astoria wrote:Let's look at the pro-Beijing crowds, shall we?
Image

Image

Literally just less than two dozen people combined.

Lol. :lol2:


Jesus, you'd think a powerful group like the CCP could pay (or threaten) more people than that to stage a protest.

User avatar
Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Sun May 31, 2020 5:47 am

Atsvea wrote:uh, no, im an hiker and you can get permanent residency after spending 7 years in hk. you don’t need chinese citizenship. you do need chinese citizenship for an hk passport, but you can get approved in hk and not the mainland. and living in a country makes you more qualified than people on the internet

2.Permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
A person who is within one of the following categories is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region—
[(a) to (c) only applicable to Chinese nationals or their children]
(d)A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
(e)A person under 21 years of age born in Hong Kong to a parent who is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in category (d) before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region if at the time of his birth or at any later time before he attains 21 years of age, one of his parents has the right of abode in Hong Kong.
(f)A person other than those residents in categories (a) to (e), who, before the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, had the right of abode in Hong Kong only.

7.Loss of the status as a permanent resident
A permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region loses the status of such resident only if— (Amended 28 of 1998 s. 2(2))
(a)being a person falling within the category in paragraph 2(d) or (e) has been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 36 months since he ceased to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong; or
(b)being a person falling within the category in paragraph 2(f), has been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 36 months after he obtained the right of abode in any place other than Hong Kong and has ceased to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong.

Based on IM's own statement, they probably belong to 2(d) unless, as I said, they or their parents somehow managed to gain Chinese national status. As such, their permanent residency would fall within the purview of 7(a).

Now, to be fair, this distinction is pretty arbitrary and doesn't make much sense, but that's the law we have to deal with for the time being.
Last edited by Tuthina on Sun May 31, 2020 5:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
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Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Atsvea
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Atsvea » Sun May 31, 2020 5:56 am

Tuthina wrote:
Atsvea wrote:uh, no, im an hiker and you can get permanent residency after spending 7 years in hk. you don’t need chinese citizenship. you do need chinese citizenship for an hk passport, but you can get approved in hk and not the mainland. and living in a country makes you more qualified than people on the internet

2.Permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
A person who is within one of the following categories is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region—
[(a) to (c) only applicable to Chinese nationals or their children]
(d)A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
(e)A person under 21 years of age born in Hong Kong to a parent who is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in category (d) before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region if at the time of his birth or at any later time before he attains 21 years of age, one of his parents has the right of abode in Hong Kong.
(f)A person other than those residents in categories (a) to (e), who, before the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, had the right of abode in Hong Kong only.

7.Loss of the status as a permanent resident
A permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region loses the status of such resident only if— (Amended 28 of 1998 s. 2(2))
(a)being a person falling within the category in paragraph 2(d) or (e) has been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 36 months since he ceased to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong; or
(b)being a person falling within the category in paragraph 2(f), has been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 36 months after he obtained the right of abode in any place other than Hong Kong and has ceased to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong.

Based on IM's own statement, they probably belong to 2(d) unless, as I said, they or their parents somehow managed to gain Chinese national status. As such, their permanent residency would fall within the purview of 7(a).

Now, to be fair, this distinction is pretty arbitrary and doesn't make much sense, but that's the law we have to deal with for the time being.

i see, i didn’t know about the distinction. it’s a shame

User avatar
Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Sun May 31, 2020 5:57 am

Atsvea wrote:
Tuthina wrote:
2.Permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
A person who is within one of the following categories is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region—
[(a) to (c) only applicable to Chinese nationals or their children]
(d)A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
(e)A person under 21 years of age born in Hong Kong to a parent who is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in category (d) before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region if at the time of his birth or at any later time before he attains 21 years of age, one of his parents has the right of abode in Hong Kong.
(f)A person other than those residents in categories (a) to (e), who, before the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, had the right of abode in Hong Kong only.

7.Loss of the status as a permanent resident
A permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region loses the status of such resident only if— (Amended 28 of 1998 s. 2(2))
(a)being a person falling within the category in paragraph 2(d) or (e) has been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 36 months since he ceased to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong; or
(b)being a person falling within the category in paragraph 2(f), has been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 36 months after he obtained the right of abode in any place other than Hong Kong and has ceased to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong.

Based on IM's own statement, they probably belong to 2(d) unless, as I said, they or their parents somehow managed to gain Chinese national status. As such, their permanent residency would fall within the purview of 7(a).

Now, to be fair, this distinction is pretty arbitrary and doesn't make much sense, but that's the law we have to deal with for the time being.

i see, i didn’t know about the distinction. it’s a shame

It's fine, it's a pretty stupid distinction anyway. :hug:
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Australian rePublic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27166
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun May 31, 2020 5:57 am

The CCP could easily crush these revolutions and intergrate Hong Kong tomorrow. This begs the question- why haven't they? What are they scared of?
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-Astoria
Minister
 
Posts: 2011
Founded: Mar 14, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria » Sun May 31, 2020 5:59 am

Australian rePublic wrote:The CCP could easily crush these revolutions and intergrate Hong Kong tomorrow. This begs the question- why haven't they? What are they scared of?

Homogenisation is, after all a gradual process.

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Atsvea
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Atsvea » Sun May 31, 2020 6:07 am

Tuthina wrote:It's fine, it's a pretty stupid distinction anyway. :hug:
:)

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Australian rePublic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27166
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun May 31, 2020 6:07 am

-Astoria wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:The CCP could easily crush these revolutions and intergrate Hong Kong tomorrow. This begs the question- why haven't they? What are they scared of?

Homogenisation is, after all a gradual process.

In what alternate universe does bigger army diplomacy give a shit about homogeny?
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
From Greek ancestry Orthodox Christian
Issues and WA Proposals Written By Me |Issue Ideas You Can Steal
I want to commission infrastructure in Australia in real life, if you can help me, please telegram me. I am dead serious

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Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Sun May 31, 2020 6:14 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
-Astoria wrote:Homogenisation is, after all a gradual process.

In what alternate universe does bigger army diplomacy give a shit about homogeny?

Presumably when applying said diplomacy would definitely screw with the place that provided PRC with like 2/3 of its foreign direct investment, right during its economy was taking a (relatively minor admittedly) hit from the pandemic. If it wishes, it definitely could level Hong Kong, but it's apparently not too sure if it could handle the aftermath, so the current approach is (relatively) subdued, using things like counterterrorism and national security as justification/excuse. It didn't seem that many other countries are buying into that, though, so how it would develop remains to be seen.
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Sun May 31, 2020 7:46 am

Australian rePublic wrote:The CCP could easily crush these revolutions and intergrate Hong Kong tomorrow. This begs the question- why haven't they? What are they scared of?


They are scared of their God, money.

Hong Kong despite being less important than it was still plays a role in transferring investment capital to the mainland.

And also the are scared of US and European sanctions. Which could crash their economy.

Money is the only reason really. If there were no financial consequences they surely would.
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Vistulange
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5472
Founded: May 13, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Vistulange » Sun May 31, 2020 8:20 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
-Astoria wrote:Homogenisation is, after all a gradual process.

In what alternate universe does bigger army diplomacy give a shit about homogeny?

No alternate universes involved, it's our current one.

Maybe, just maybe, the field of international politics is broader than "military might go pew pew". Just a suggestion.

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Glorious Hong Kong
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1357
Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Sun May 31, 2020 11:06 am

Tuthina wrote:
Atsvea wrote:uh, no, im an hiker and you can get permanent residency after spending 7 years in hk. you don’t need chinese citizenship. you do need chinese citizenship for an hk passport, but you can get approved in hk and not the mainland. and living in a country makes you more qualified than people on the internet

2.Permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
A person who is within one of the following categories is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region—
[(a) to (c) only applicable to Chinese nationals or their children]
(d)A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
(e)A person under 21 years of age born in Hong Kong to a parent who is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in category (d) before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region if at the time of his birth or at any later time before he attains 21 years of age, one of his parents has the right of abode in Hong Kong.
(f)A person other than those residents in categories (a) to (e), who, before the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, had the right of abode in Hong Kong only.

7.Loss of the status as a permanent resident
A permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region loses the status of such resident only if— (Amended 28 of 1998 s. 2(2))
(a)being a person falling within the category in paragraph 2(d) or (e) has been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 36 months since he ceased to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong; or
(b)being a person falling within the category in paragraph 2(f), has been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 36 months after he obtained the right of abode in any place other than Hong Kong and has ceased to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong.

Based on IM's own statement, they probably belong to 2(d) unless, as I said, they or their parents somehow managed to gain Chinese national status. As such, their permanent residency would fall within the purview of 7(a).

Now, to be fair, this distinction is pretty arbitrary and doesn't make much sense, but that's the law we have to deal with for the time being.


2(d) and 7(a) apply to me. I got my first HKID at age 7. This was prior to the Handover. This means I have to visit HK by the fall of 2022 at the latest to avoid being locked out of my hometown entirely. I didn't know HK and Chinese nationals were treated differently by the Immigration Department. HK is one of those few places where even foreigners are permitted to vote. The only other country I can think of that permits foreigners to vote is the UK, which allows Commonwealth (and formerly, EU) citizens to vote.
LIBERATE HONG KONG. REVOLUTION OF OUR TIMES. CCP DELENDA EST.
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ALL LIVES MATTER.
Wuhan coronavirus is racist but Japanese encephalitis is A-OK. The CCP has nothing to do with this double standard whatsoever. Nothing to see here.
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New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44083
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Sun May 31, 2020 4:18 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:The CCP could easily crush these revolutions and intergrate Hong Kong tomorrow. This begs the question- why haven't they? What are they scared of?

Because they promised the UK they'd let HK be autonomous and outright lying is a way to lose face in mainland Chinese culture.

So they have to secretly lie.
Last edited by New haven america on Sun May 31, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun May 31, 2020 4:24 pm

New haven america wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:The CCP could easily crush these revolutions and intergrate Hong Kong tomorrow. This begs the question- why haven't they? What are they scared of?

Because they promised the UK they'd let HK be autonomous and outright lying is a way to lose face in mainland Chinese culture.

So they have to secretly lie.

And hence why the move by the UK Government towards giving folk in HK a potential avenue of escape should things get worse is justified.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Infected Mushroom
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Posts: 39284
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2020 8:13 pm

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/ ... 200601.htm

A pro-Beijing alliance says it has collected over 2.92 million signatures in the past week or so in support of Beijing’s move to bring in a national security law for Hong Kong.

Various pro-Beijing parties and groups under the alliance set up street booths across the territory to collect people’s signatures, while employees at some mainland-owned companies were also encouraged to back the legislation.

On Monday, the alliance said the response shows that the law to cover secession, subversion, terrorism and foreign interference has "widespread support" in the community.

Tam Yiu-chung, Hong Kong's only member of the National People's Congress Standing Committee and who chairs the alliance, said the legislation will ensure the SAR's safety and prosperity and will protect "One Country, Two Systems" in the years to come.

He said the signatures will be passed to Beijing's liaison office so it can relay the people’s views to the central government.

Tam said he did not know whether the legislation will be addressed during the standing committee’s next meeting in late June.

"Up to now, I haven't had information about that. Because the standing committee hasn't been meeting now. So maybe later … But I hope it [the legislation] will be finished as soon as possible," Tam said.


After the attempt of the United States to “support the protests” by causing harm to the Hong Kong economy, it appears that the people have realized it makes sense to rally behind the Chinese and the SAR government

More than 2 million signatures, that’s more participation than the largest 1 million people march of last year

Carrie Lam was telling the truth when she said the bill had popular support
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Sun May 31, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 16402
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free Joy State » Sun May 31, 2020 9:27 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
New haven america wrote:Because they promised the UK they'd let HK be autonomous and outright lying is a way to lose face in mainland Chinese culture.

So they have to secretly lie.

And hence why the move by the UK Government towards giving folk in HK a potential avenue of escape should things get worse is justified.

Yes, I saw it on the news last night. Britain's ready to welcome Hong Kong refugees facing suppression by mainland China.

Which can only be a good thing, at least for the 2.9 million Hong Kongers eligible for a British passport.

Though it would be horrendous if this was necessitated, as it would mean citizens had to uproot themselves from their homes, due to the forced homogenisation of their culture and the destruction of their freedoms.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sun May 31, 2020 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Sun May 31, 2020 9:39 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:And hence why the move by the UK Government towards giving folk in HK a potential avenue of escape should things get worse is justified.

Yes, I saw it on the news last night. Britain's ready to welcome Hong Kong refugees facing suppression by mainland China.

Which can only be a good thing, at least for the 2.9 million Hong Kongers eligible for a British passport.

Though it would be horrendous if this was necessitated, as it would mean citizens had to uproot themselves from their homes, due to the forced homogenisation of their culture and the destruction of their freedoms.

Not to mention that even with the right of abode in UK, many would still have other obstacles for adapting to their new life should they choose (or are forced to choose) to move to UK. Everything from a place to live to a living to make can cause a lot of strife both for the emigrants and the locals in UK. Personally, I would prefer the pro-PRC peeps to move to mainland instead, since they apparently like living under it more. Plus I guess the Great Firewall should keep some of the more insane ramblings away for our mental health.
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 16402
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free Joy State » Sun May 31, 2020 9:57 pm

Tuthina wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Yes, I saw it on the news last night. Britain's ready to welcome Hong Kong refugees facing suppression by mainland China.

Which can only be a good thing, at least for the 2.9 million Hong Kongers eligible for a British passport.

Though it would be horrendous if this was necessitated, as it would mean citizens had to uproot themselves from their homes, due to the forced homogenisation of their culture and the destruction of their freedoms.

Not to mention that even with the right of abode in UK, many would still have other obstacles for adapting to their new life should they choose (or are forced to choose) to move to UK. Everything from a place to live to a living to make can cause a lot of strife both for the emigrants and the locals in UK. Personally, I would prefer the pro-PRC peeps to move to mainland instead, since they apparently like living under it more. Plus I guess the Great Firewall should keep some of the more insane ramblings away for our mental health.

While it would be better if the 13.8% of Hong Kongers who want direct rule by Beijing moved to the Mainland, at least for the majority who don't, unfortunately, it seems that the PRC is now keen to export tyranny along with cheap merchandise.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sun May 31, 2020 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

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Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Sun May 31, 2020 10:09 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:
Tuthina wrote:Not to mention that even with the right of abode in UK, many would still have other obstacles for adapting to their new life should they choose (or are forced to choose) to move to UK. Everything from a place to live to a living to make can cause a lot of strife both for the emigrants and the locals in UK. Personally, I would prefer the pro-PRC peeps to move to mainland instead, since they apparently like living under it more. Plus I guess the Great Firewall should keep some of the more insane ramblings away for our mental health.

While it would be better if the 13.8% of Hong Kongers who want direct rule by Beijing moved to the Mainland, at least for the majority who don't, unfortunately, it seems that the PRC is now keen to export tyranny along with cheap merchandise.

Well, if it's an ideal world, PRC wouldn't exist to begin with, but I guess that's the hand we're dealt with.
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Infected Mushroom
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Posts: 39284
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2020 10:24 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:
Tuthina wrote:Not to mention that even with the right of abode in UK, many would still have other obstacles for adapting to their new life should they choose (or are forced to choose) to move to UK. Everything from a place to live to a living to make can cause a lot of strife both for the emigrants and the locals in UK. Personally, I would prefer the pro-PRC peeps to move to mainland instead, since they apparently like living under it more. Plus I guess the Great Firewall should keep some of the more insane ramblings away for our mental health.

While it would be better if the 13.8% of Hong Kongers who want direct rule by Beijing moved to the Mainland, at least for the majority who don't, unfortunately, it seems that the PRC is now keen to export tyranny along with cheap merchandise.


This information is very outdated. It’s from 2016.

You’d have to re-adjust in light of the violent tactics used by the protestors over the last year (which has resulted in so many injuries, destruction of property both private and public, and caused so much economic harm) and in light of the protestors now looking bad because they have the backing of foreign imperial powers (one of which is the USA which has just tried to but failed to undermine HK’s economy by revoking trade status)...

I’ve been talking to shop owners and people on the streets and many people are very upset about the foreign meddling; if there’s one thing the Chinese people can agree on it’s that if push comes to shove, China will unite against hostile foreign governments

This why the PRC has emphasized the foreign actions element to the anti government side and now with America’s latest attacks on the HK economy and against Chinese overseas students, they are playing into the narrative

I think it’s good that the UK will take in citizens who want to leave, but I think the majority will stay and do their part to support Hong Kong and China

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Bombadil
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18711
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Sun May 31, 2020 10:31 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1529504-20200601.htm

A pro-Beijing alliance says it has collected over 2.92 million signatures in the past week or so in support of Beijing’s move to bring in a national security law for Hong Kong.

Various pro-Beijing parties and groups under the alliance set up street booths across the territory to collect people’s signatures, while employees at some mainland-owned companies were also encouraged to back the legislation.

On Monday, the alliance said the response shows that the law to cover secession, subversion, terrorism and foreign interference has "widespread support" in the community.

Tam Yiu-chung, Hong Kong's only member of the National People's Congress Standing Committee and who chairs the alliance, said the legislation will ensure the SAR's safety and prosperity and will protect "One Country, Two Systems" in the years to come.

He said the signatures will be passed to Beijing's liaison office so it can relay the people’s views to the central government.

Tam said he did not know whether the legislation will be addressed during the standing committee’s next meeting in late June.

"Up to now, I haven't had information about that. Because the standing committee hasn't been meeting now. So maybe later … But I hope it [the legislation] will be finished as soon as possible," Tam said.


After the attempt of the United States to “support the protests” by causing harm to the Hong Kong economy, it appears that the people have realized it makes sense to rally behind the Chinese and the SAR government

More than 2 million signatures, that’s more participation than the largest 1 million people march of last year

Carrie Lam was telling the truth when she said the bill had popular support


Lol..

Chinese officials use such shows of allegiance — known as biao tai, or expressing one’s position — to uphold Mr. Xi’s decisions to sideline political opponents and to tighten control of the media.

“They want this kind of well-orchestrated drama to present the picture that they have the people behind them, when clearly the majority of Hong Kong people are against the new law,” said Willy Lam, a political analyst at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. “The message to the opposition is: ‘We have already garnered the support of so many people, so it is futile to oppose it.’ ”

More than a dozen Hong Kong officials, including the leaders of the police, fire and immigration departments, have offered strikingly similar endorsements of a new law.

In mainland China, the state-run news media has provided heavy coverage of statements of support from Hong Kong officials, business leaders and workers. China Central Television, the state broadcaster, said the petition drive showed that “all walks of life in Hong Kong fully support Hong Kong to defend the national security law.”


In a March poll 63% of respondents supported the protests, one would have to imagine a far higher number certainly don't support this law even if they're not happy with the protests, 2.92M is simply not possible and it's typical of propagandists to not even bother putting out a realistic number.

This is exactly why HK is becoming just like China, rolling out people to parrot Xi's propaganda, they even threatened HSBC, which is a UK public company to make a statement supporting the law, which so far they've declined to do.. it's straight of the playbook.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Infected Mushroom
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Posts: 39284
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun May 31, 2020 10:37 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1529504-20200601.htm



After the attempt of the United States to “support the protests” by causing harm to the Hong Kong economy, it appears that the people have realized it makes sense to rally behind the Chinese and the SAR government

More than 2 million signatures, that’s more participation than the largest 1 million people march of last year

Carrie Lam was telling the truth when she said the bill had popular support


Lol..

Chinese officials use such shows of allegiance — known as biao tai, or expressing one’s position — to uphold Mr. Xi’s decisions to sideline political opponents and to tighten control of the media.

“They want this kind of well-orchestrated drama to present the picture that they have the people behind them, when clearly the majority of Hong Kong people are against the new law,” said Willy Lam, a political analyst at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. “The message to the opposition is: ‘We have already garnered the support of so many people, so it is futile to oppose it.’ ”

More than a dozen Hong Kong officials, including the leaders of the police, fire and immigration departments, have offered strikingly similar endorsements of a new law.

In mainland China, the state-run news media has provided heavy coverage of statements of support from Hong Kong officials, business leaders and workers. China Central Television, the state broadcaster, said the petition drive showed that “all walks of life in Hong Kong fully support Hong Kong to defend the national security law.”


In a March poll 63% of respondents supported the protests, one would have to imagine a far higher number certainly don't support this law even if they're not happy with the protests, 2.92M is simply not possible and it's typical of propagandists to not even bother putting out a realistic number.

This is exactly why HK is becoming just like China, rolling out people to parrot Xi's propaganda, they even threatened HSBC, which is a UK public company to make a statement supporting the law, which so far they've declined to do.. it's straight of the playbook.


I have no reason to believe those signatures weren’t collected using valid methods.

This weekend, I sensed the mood changing. The people aren’t happy about the US attempt to sabotage Hong Kong’s economy. Trump wasn’t even subtle about it, he literally said he’s doing this “revoking the trade status” because he’s “not happy with China.” He’s essentially turned this into... “are you going to stand with China or with America?” And I think people are starting to realize they don’t want to be pawns of the Americans.

Even if China “oppresses” us, at least they are our lords.

This is our economy, our stock market, and America tried to crash it. I’ve been hearing these sorts of comments all weekend. It’s encouraging.

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Bombadil
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18711
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Sun May 31, 2020 10:44 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Lol..

Chinese officials use such shows of allegiance — known as biao tai, or expressing one’s position — to uphold Mr. Xi’s decisions to sideline political opponents and to tighten control of the media.

“They want this kind of well-orchestrated drama to present the picture that they have the people behind them, when clearly the majority of Hong Kong people are against the new law,” said Willy Lam, a political analyst at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. “The message to the opposition is: ‘We have already garnered the support of so many people, so it is futile to oppose it.’ ”

More than a dozen Hong Kong officials, including the leaders of the police, fire and immigration departments, have offered strikingly similar endorsements of a new law.

In mainland China, the state-run news media has provided heavy coverage of statements of support from Hong Kong officials, business leaders and workers. China Central Television, the state broadcaster, said the petition drive showed that “all walks of life in Hong Kong fully support Hong Kong to defend the national security law.”


In a March poll 63% of respondents supported the protests, one would have to imagine a far higher number certainly don't support this law even if they're not happy with the protests, 2.92M is simply not possible and it's typical of propagandists to not even bother putting out a realistic number.

This is exactly why HK is becoming just like China, rolling out people to parrot Xi's propaganda, they even threatened HSBC, which is a UK public company to make a statement supporting the law, which so far they've declined to do.. it's straight of the playbook.


I have no reason to believe those signatures weren’t collected using valid methods.

This weekend, I sensed the mood changing. The people aren’t happy about the US attempt to sabotage Hong Kong’s economy. Trump wasn’t even subtle about it, he literally said he’s doing this “revoking the trade status” because he’s “not happy with China.” He’s essentially turned this into... “are you going to stand with China or with America?” And I think people are starting to realize they don’t want to be pawns of the Americans.

Even if China “oppresses” us, at least they are our lords.

This is our economy, our stock market, and America tried to crash it. I’ve been hearing these sorts of comments all weekend. It’s encouraging.


Well let's see when an independent poll comes out otherwise he's just you said/I said, generally I get a mix of 'I just want to leave' and 'we have to stay and fight'. Even my friend who happily calls the protestors 'cockroaches' think this law is a clear breach of 1C2S and shows 'you can never trust the CCP'.

There are people certainly against the more violent aspects of the protests, a good few against the protests in general, but very very few who support this law unless they're basically forced to make a statement by Beijing. God, even my local policeman noted that this does very little to help them, I mean do what you want but if you're not even helping the police as a government then god help you.

Anyway, I await a poll. Further, we'll see what happens come November in the elections.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 16402
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free Joy State » Sun May 31, 2020 10:48 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:While it would be better if the 13.8% of Hong Kongers who want direct rule by Beijing moved to the Mainland, at least for the majority who don't, unfortunately, it seems that the PRC is now keen to export tyranny along with cheap merchandise.


This information is very outdated. It’s from 2016.

Oh, then here's one from 2020: 58% of Hong Kongers support the protestors, and only 15% oppose the protestors' wishes. 63% of Hong Kongers wish for the pro-Beijing Carrie Lam to resign.

There you are. Nice and recent. It hardly screams support for Beijing.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sun May 31, 2020 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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