Hong Kong II - Ragnarök

[Novus America]

Good, I am glad someone is standing up to the PRC’s outrageous demands that no one should be allowed to criticize its oppression in Taiwan.

The only sad thing is it is a temporary display, not a permanent one.

Funny how apparently Amnesty International is an “anti China organization” for standing up for the rights of Chinese people.

At the risk of sounding like That Guy, how is standing up for the rights of Chinese people "anti China?"

Cause anyone who disagrees with Xi hates China, Xi said it so it must be true

Actually people un-ironically believe that. We have one here who claims to.

[Tuthina]

Good, I am glad someone is standing up to the PRC’s outrageous demands that no one should be allowed to criticize its oppression in Taiwan.

The only sad thing is it is a temporary display, not a permanent one.

Funny how apparently Amnesty International is an “anti China organization” for standing up for the rights of Chinese people.

At the risk of sounding like That Guy, how is standing up for the rights of Chinese people "anti China?"

Because PRC has a habit of calling any opposition towards its despotism "anti-China" by virtue of it saying so. I guess you can think of it like the country version of calling everyone one disagree with racist.

[Bombadil]

At the risk of sounding like That Guy, how is standing up for the rights of Chinese people "anti China?"

Because PRC has a habit of calling any opposition towards its despotism "anti-China" by virtue of it saying so. I guess you can think of it like the country version of calling everyone one disagree with racist.

Essentially it's why I pretty much always write CCP where I'm critiquing, to make the distinction.. alas, and especially with this virus, people have been commenting on it as a China problem, and so there's been a backlash both ways, in terms of driving anti-Chinese people sentiment but also people defending the CCP by portraying commentary as an attack on Chinese people.

What's amazing is how quick the China propaganda machine is working, the day after Li Wenliang died there was a flood of 'Li Wenliang is not a hero' posts across online.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Because PRC has a habit of calling any opposition towards its despotism "anti-China" by virtue of it saying so. I guess you can think of it like the country version of calling everyone one disagree with racist.

Essentially it's why I pretty much always write CCP where I'm critiquing, to make the distinction.. alas, and especially with this virus, people have been commenting on it as a China problem, and so there's been a backlash both ways, in terms of driving anti-Chinese people sentiment but also people defending the CCP by portraying commentary as an attack on Chinese people.

What's amazing is how quick the China propaganda machine is working, the day after Li Wenliang died there was a flood of 'Li Wenliang is not a hero' posts across online.

But China’s failing. People have been seen to share Hong Kong protest anthems on Weibo and asking for people to stop censorship within China. If anything, the shit handling of the coronavirus may become China’s downfall.

[Hong Kong People]

Essentially it's why I pretty much always write CCP where I'm critiquing, to make the distinction.. alas, and especially with this virus, people have been commenting on it as a China problem, and so there's been a backlash both ways, in terms of driving anti-Chinese people sentiment but also people defending the CCP by portraying commentary as an attack on Chinese people.

What's amazing is how quick the China propaganda machine is working, the day after Li Wenliang died there was a flood of 'Li Wenliang is not a hero' posts across online.

But China’s failing. People have been seen to share Hong Kong protest anthems on Weibo and asking for people to stop censorship within China. If anything, the shit handling of the coronavirus may become China’s downfall.

I doubt if the coronavirus outbreak marks the beginning of the end of CCP. Chinese people are way more accustomed to being enslaved by CCP than we can ever imagine. In fact, some Chinese( not sure if they are CCP bots) are even praising CCP's effort in combating the virus and claim that other countries can never deal with the mass viral outbreak as well as CCP does. Of course, if the virus becomes more lethal and the outbreak spirals out of control, Chinese might rebel against CCP. But the studying of Chinese history makes me realise that collapse of a dictatorship will only be followed by the establishment of another oppressive regime in China. I am afraid China will never be a well-functioning democracy given the lack of civic and political education.

[New Visayan Islands]

But China’s failing. People have been seen to share Hong Kong protest anthems on Weibo and asking for people to stop censorship within China. If anything, the shit handling of the coronavirus may become China’s downfall.

I doubt if the coronavirus outbreak marks the beginning of the end of CCP. Chinese people are way more accustomed to being enslaved by CCP than we can ever imagine. In fact, some Chinese( not sure if they are CCP bots) are even praising CCP's effort in combating the virus and claim that other countries can never deal with the mass viral outbreak as well as CCP does. Of course, if the virus becomes more lethal and the outbreak spirals out of control, Chinese might rebel against CCP. But the studying of Chinese history makes me realise that collapse of a dictatorship will only be followed by the establishment of another oppressive regime in China. I am afraid China will never be a well-functioning democracy given the lack of civic and political education.

Sounds like Gold Experience Requiem telling China "You will never reach democracy."

Going back, what other options would be there in the course of Chinese history?

[Heloin]

But China’s failing. People have been seen to share Hong Kong protest anthems on Weibo and asking for people to stop censorship within China. If anything, the shit handling of the coronavirus may become China’s downfall.

I doubt if the coronavirus outbreak marks the beginning of the end of CCP. Chinese people are way more accustomed to being enslaved by CCP than we can ever imagine. In fact, some Chinese( not sure if they are CCP bots) are even praising CCP's effort in combating the virus and claim that other countries can never deal with the mass viral outbreak as well as CCP does. Of course, if the virus becomes more lethal and the outbreak spirals out of control, Chinese might rebel against CCP.

To act like the people of China are mindless slaves to the CCP is insulting to the people of China. Sure some people have fallen for the propaganda but there where Russians in 1919 still supporting Tsar Nicholas, some people don't look to far into a problem. Decades of CCP lies are wearing down the people of China. The Corona virus is unlikely to be the point of failure, but it is a clear sign of things to come.

But the studying of Chinese history makes me realise that collapse of a dictatorship will only be followed by the establishment of another oppressive regime in China. I am afraid China will never be a well-functioning democracy given the lack of civic and political education.

A poor reading of history perhaps. Treating an oppressive Chinese government or even a united China like an inevitable reality when it isn't is embracing PRC propaganda just has much as those shilling for the PRC.

[Bombadil]

There's a significant change in the recent appointment of a new HKMAO chief, he specifically ranks higher than the CE whereas previously the head of the HKMAO and the CE were ranked equally.

The reshuffle was also seen as leaving Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor in no doubt as to the reporting hierarchy – the leaders of Hong Kong and Macau were previously ranked at the same level as the directors of the two offices.

Lam extended a “warm welcome” to Xia in his new role, issuing a statement saying: “The appointment of Mr Xia as the HKMAO director in addition to his capacity as the vice-chairman of the National Committee of the CPPCC is testimony to the importance the central government attaches to Hong Kong and Macau affairs.”

Xia is a close buddy of Xi Jinping..

He has a reputation for being hard-handed and is widely regarded as a trusted ally of President Xi Jinping, as they worked together for more than four years in Zhejiang province in the mid-2000s – Xi as Communist Party chief and Xia his deputy.

So, basically, direct control by Xi Jinping. Aside from generally being useless, Carrie Lam is now entirely useless.

[Heloin]

There's a significant change in the recent appointment of a new HKMAO chief, he specifically ranks higher than the CE whereas previously the head of the HKMAO and the CE were ranked equally.

The reshuffle was also seen as leaving Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor in no doubt as to the reporting hierarchy – the leaders of Hong Kong and Macau were previously ranked at the same level as the directors of the two offices.

Lam extended a “warm welcome” to Xia in his new role, issuing a statement saying: “The appointment of Mr Xia as the HKMAO director in addition to his capacity as the vice-chairman of the National Committee of the CPPCC is testimony to the importance the central government attaches to Hong Kong and Macau affairs.”

Xia is a close buddy of Xi Jinping..

He has a reputation for being hard-handed and is widely regarded as a trusted ally of President Xi Jinping, as they worked together for more than four years in Zhejiang province in the mid-2000s – Xi as Communist Party chief and Xia his deputy.

So, basically, direct control by Xi Jinping. Aside from generally being useless, Carrie Lam is now entirely useless.

Carrie is literally only here anymore as a punching bag for Beijing if things continue to go against their wishes.

Also seeing as the hard handed approach has utterly failed in Hong Kong what are they expecting an even harder hand to accomplish?

[Albrenia]

Must be a scary time to be in Hong Kong. I admire those who are still struggling for freedom with these new added dangers to their cause.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

There's a significant change in the recent appointment of a new HKMAO chief, he specifically ranks higher than the CE whereas previously the head of the HKMAO and the CE were ranked equally.

The reshuffle was also seen as leaving Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor in no doubt as to the reporting hierarchy – the leaders of Hong Kong and Macau were previously ranked at the same level as the directors of the two offices.

Lam extended a “warm welcome” to Xia in his new role, issuing a statement saying: “The appointment of Mr Xia as the HKMAO director in addition to his capacity as the vice-chairman of the National Committee of the CPPCC is testimony to the importance the central government attaches to Hong Kong and Macau affairs.”

Xia is a close buddy of Xi Jinping..

He has a reputation for being hard-handed and is widely regarded as a trusted ally of President Xi Jinping, as they worked together for more than four years in Zhejiang province in the mid-2000s – Xi as Communist Party chief and Xia his deputy.

So, basically, direct control by Xi Jinping. Aside from generally being useless, Carrie Lam is now entirely useless.

Woah, that just cancels out the purpose of the CE’s seat. Uncool.

[The New California Republic]

There's a significant change in the recent appointment of a new HKMAO chief, he specifically ranks higher than the CE whereas previously the head of the HKMAO and the CE were ranked equally.

The reshuffle was also seen as leaving Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor in no doubt as to the reporting hierarchy – the leaders of Hong Kong and Macau were previously ranked at the same level as the directors of the two offices.

Lam extended a “warm welcome” to Xia in his new role, issuing a statement saying: “The appointment of Mr Xia as the HKMAO director in addition to his capacity as the vice-chairman of the National Committee of the CPPCC is testimony to the importance the central government attaches to Hong Kong and Macau affairs.”

Xia is a close buddy of Xi Jinping..

He has a reputation for being hard-handed and is widely regarded as a trusted ally of President Xi Jinping, as they worked together for more than four years in Zhejiang province in the mid-2000s – Xi as Communist Party chief and Xia his deputy.

So, basically, direct control by Xi Jinping. Aside from generally being useless, Carrie Lam is now entirely useless.

Ew. How disgusting.

[Aingard]

The studying of Chinese history makes me realise that collapse of a dictatorship will only be followed by the establishment of another oppressive regime in China. I am afraid China will never be a well-functioning democracy given the lack of civic and political education.

I thought that too, but now there's another "China". Taiwan also started out as very authoritarian under Chang Kai Shek I think, but now they're a democracy, and hopefully it stays that way.

[Novus America]

The studying of Chinese history makes me realise that collapse of a dictatorship will only be followed by the establishment of another oppressive regime in China. I am afraid China will never be a well-functioning democracy given the lack of civic and political education.

I thought that too, but now there's another "China". Taiwan also started out as very authoritarian under Chang Kai Shek I think, but now they're a democracy, and hopefully it stays that way.

If the PRC collapses (unlikely but one can hope) Hong Kong could join the ROC, and thus preserve its freedom even in a new authoritarian government rose in the rest.

[Bombadil]

Must be a scary time to be in Hong Kong. I admire those who are still struggling for freedom with these new added dangers to their cause.

This is why it's scary..

#CarrieLam says Hong Kong cannot close all its border with China and ‘target’ mainland travellers as that could amount to BIAS
She shuts Hong King’s door on Korean travellers today

Yep, apparently they can easily close the borders to Korea due to the outbreak but they cannot with China, which has ridiculously higher levels of the outbreak. Anything HK does now is a political consideration for China, nothing to do with the health or wellbeing of HK people.

[Gormwood]

Must be a scary time to be in Hong Kong. I admire those who are still struggling for freedom with these new added dangers to their cause.

This is why it's scary..

#CarrieLam says Hong Kong cannot close all its border with China and ‘target’ mainland travellers as that could amount to BIAS
She shuts Hong King’s door on Korean travellers today

Yep, apparently they can easily close the borders to Korea due to the outbreak but they cannot with China, which has ridiculously higher levels of the outbreak. Anything HK does now is a political consideration for China, nothing to do with the health or wellbeing of HK people.

Heads are gonna roll in Beijing, and they'll try to shave everyone who's not Xi in another quarter-ass attempt to save face. It'll be like War of the Worlds where a germ ends up taking down a supposedly unstoppable menace.

[New Rogernomics]

I'd hope that the coronavirus would encourage a revolt in China and a democratic transformation, given how incompetently and brutally the PRC are dealing with the crisis. Though without Xi being purged by internal PRC politics due to his poor management of the virus response, it doesn't seem likely that Hong Kong will achieve independence or more autonomy, as Xi seems hardly concerned with the fact that Hong Kong's economy is worsening and has never ruled out a forceful military takeover.

[Kowtowannia]

I'd hope that the coronavirus would encourage a revolt in China and a democratic transformation, given how incompetently and brutally the PRC are dealing with the crisis. Though without Xi being purged by internal PRC politics due to his poor management of the virus response, it doesn't seem likely that Hong Kong will achieve independence or more autonomy, as Xi seems hardly concerned with the fact that Hong Kong's economy is worsening and has never ruled out a forceful military takeover.

If China becomes a genuine democracy, would HK even still want independence?

[New Rogernomics]

I'd hope that the coronavirus would encourage a revolt in China and a democratic transformation, given how incompetently and brutally the PRC are dealing with the crisis. Though without Xi being purged by internal PRC politics due to his poor management of the virus response, it doesn't seem likely that Hong Kong will achieve independence or more autonomy, as Xi seems hardly concerned with the fact that Hong Kong's economy is worsening and has never ruled out a forceful military takeover.

If China becomes a genuine democracy, would HK even still want independence?

It would depend, I think probably they still would. A post PRC China is pretty interesting to think about, though at minimum it would mean more autonomy for Tibet, Xinjiang and Hong Kong, and an end to extreme nationalist propaganda like the South China Sea claims. I don't think that Taiwan would want to be part of China though, even if there was a democratic transition, as they see themselves as Taiwanese these days, and I am pretty sure most Hong Kongers see themselves as from Hong Kong and not China.

[Bombadil]

I'd hope that the coronavirus would encourage a revolt in China and a democratic transformation, given how incompetently and brutally the PRC are dealing with the crisis. Though without Xi being purged by internal PRC politics due to his poor management of the virus response, it doesn't seem likely that Hong Kong will achieve independence or more autonomy, as Xi seems hardly concerned with the fact that Hong Kong's economy is worsening and has never ruled out a forceful military takeover.

They're certainly messaging through every channel possible that this is not Xi Jinping's fault, that is essentially the core message they're focused on right now.

“We should not criticise the Chinese government for what is, essentially, an unfathomable act of God,” said my priest in a video message on WeChat, the app that rules all inside the People’s Republic of China. He had to go onto social media to announce that English mass was cancelled that Sunday, even though we live far from the epicentre of the Coronavirus outbreak that has struck China.

As someone who has a difficult relationship with the Catholic church, I am inclined to question the judgement of a priest, but knowing that my expat parish has to abide by the rules of the local Chinese diocese, which in turn has to abide by the rules set by the atheist Communist Party of China apparatchiks in charge of ‘spiritual purity’, I would not dare to disagree with him openly.

An outbreak of a contagious disease that has apparently mutated from a common virus cannot be laid at the feet of the Eternal Red Emperor of China, Xi Jinping. In ancient times, Chinese emperors feared these outbreaks of disease as much as they did floods and earthquakes, not only because of the human toll in their earthly realm, but because these were often seen as heavenly portents of a dynastic change. If an emperor was faced with natural disasters, it could mean supernatural proof that he had lost ‘the mandate of heaven’.

The first known coronavirus infection in the city of Wuhan presented symptoms beginning on Dec. 1, and by late December there was alarm in Wuhan’s medical circles. A doctor who told a WeChat group about it was disciplined by Communist Party of China (CPC) officials whose reasoning, in this case, is not dissimilar to that of the people in charge of ‘spiritual purity’ in my diocese: a message that could pose a danger to the nation’s stability under Xi should not be shared.

[New Rogernomics]

[...]The first known coronavirus infection in the city of Wuhan presented symptoms beginning on Dec. 1, and by late December there was alarm in Wuhan’s medical circles. A doctor who told a WeChat group about it was disciplined by Communist Party of China (CPC) officials whose reasoning, in this case, is not dissimilar to that of the people in charge of ‘spiritual purity’ in my diocese: a message that could pose a danger to the nation’s stability under Xi should not be shared.

Unfortunately religious institutions can be co-opted to betray the weakest in society that they are meant to support and stand up for, as with the Orthodox Church in the Soviet Union, during Tzarist times, and in modern day Russia - with their ironclad support for Putin. Part of it is to ensure survival, but it is still collaborating with a repressive government that doesn't believe in human rights. If it is an official church, it might as well be another outpost of the state surveillance apparatus, as the only churches actually true to their beliefs in China are underground and illegal.

[Bombadil]

[...]The first known coronavirus infection in the city of Wuhan presented symptoms beginning on Dec. 1, and by late December there was alarm in Wuhan’s medical circles. A doctor who told a WeChat group about it was disciplined by Communist Party of China (CPC) officials whose reasoning, in this case, is not dissimilar to that of the people in charge of ‘spiritual purity’ in my diocese: a message that could pose a danger to the nation’s stability under Xi should not be shared.

Unfortunately religious institutions can be co-opted to betray the weakest in society that they are meant to support and stand up for, as with the Orthodox Church in the Soviet Union, during Tzarist times, and in modern day Russia - with their ironclad support for Putin. Part of it is to ensure survival, but it is still collaborating with a repressive government that doesn't believe in human rights. If it is an official church, it might as well be another outpost of the state surveillance apparatus, as the only churches actually true to their beliefs in China are underground and illegal.

Religion in the opiate of the masses, or as Carrie Fisher put it, I took masses of opiates religiously.

[Bombadil]

All us permanent residents over 18 will receive a handout of HK$10, 000 this year, which is about USD1, 300.. in an attempt to buy the goodwill of the people because, frankly, that lasts at the very best a month if you're not paying rent.

Every Hong Kong permanent resident aged above 18 will receive HK$10,000 in cash, while the government also offers 100 per cent guarantee to Hong Kong companies taking low interest loans

Individuals will receive rebates in salary and property tax, other government fees and a month of lower public housing rent

The monthly allowance for low income families will be doubled and fees waived for public examinations to get into universities

Lower profit tax for companies, government rents and rates to be reduced, electricity bills will be subsidised

The relief package costs HK$120B, dipping into overall reserves of $1.1T.

[Neanderthaland]

All us permanent residents over 18 will receive a handout of HK$10, 000 this year, which is about USD1, 300.. in an attempt to buy the goodwill of the people because, frankly, that lasts at the very best a month if you're not paying rent.

Every Hong Kong permanent resident aged above 18 will receive HK$10,000 in cash, while the government also offers 100 per cent guarantee to Hong Kong companies taking low interest loans

Individuals will receive rebates in salary and property tax, other government fees and a month of lower public housing rent

The monthly allowance for low income families will be doubled and fees waived for public examinations to get into universities

Lower profit tax for companies, government rents and rates to be reduced, electricity bills will be subsidised

The relief package costs HK$120B, dipping into overall reserves of $1.1T.

Good, I guess?

But fuck them if they thing this will make everyone forget about all the abuse.

[Bombadil]

All us permanent residents over 18 will receive a handout of HK$10, 000 this year, which is about USD1, 300.. in an attempt to buy the goodwill of the people because, frankly, that lasts at the very best a month if you're not paying rent.

Every Hong Kong permanent resident aged above 18 will receive HK$10,000 in cash, while the government also offers 100 per cent guarantee to Hong Kong companies taking low interest loans

Individuals will receive rebates in salary and property tax, other government fees and a month of lower public housing rent

The monthly allowance for low income families will be doubled and fees waived for public examinations to get into universities

Lower profit tax for companies, government rents and rates to be reduced, electricity bills will be subsidised

The relief package costs HK$120B, dipping into overall reserves of $1.1T.

Good, I guess?

But fuck them if they thing this will make everyone forget about all the abuse.

I mean.. I'm not going to throw it back in their face.. still this will be an extremely tough year for people regardless. Weirdly my little island is doing ok given we're receiving a lot of visitors who want to escape the city and enjoy some fresh air.