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Hong Kong II - A New Year's Resolution..

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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I believe..

It will all die out and HK will slowly be subsumed into an authoritarian China
42
17%
It will all die out but international pressure will come to bear on China to change
11
4%
It will continue yet HK will slowly be subsumed into an authoritarian China
75
31%
It will continue and international pressure will come to bear on China to change
43
18%
Shit's going down yo'
39
16%
Hasselhoff will wake from his slumber and the chosen one will rise again
20
8%
I like clicking polls.. I mean, a bit like democracy I guess.. but i just like clicking polls
11
4%
Other
4
2%
 
Total votes : 245

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Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12414
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:13 pm

Tuthina wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Well the simple and sad truth is that China is effectively in direct control of all aspects of HK now, and there's simply no way they will allow an objective, independent investigation.

HK is dead now, it is irrevocably changed, the only possible hope is for the CCP to die.

Interestingly, for the first time ever, Immigration Department has rejected an employee visa application, word on the ground is they're tightening up on foreign workers. We've already seen in the past couple of years that China has been arresting and throwing out teachers..

BEIJING, August 13 (Reuters) - Arrests and deportations of foreign teachers in China have soared this year, lawyers, schools and teachers say, amid a broad crackdown defined by new police tactics and Beijing’s push for a “cleaner”, more patriotic education system.

Link

One silver lining is that IM might be thrown out at some point as they reform education in HK, they're already closely scrutinising teachers and demanding more 'patriotic' education in HK.

Or IM can double down on their inane comments here in an attempt to make themselves look more patriotic. Still, I do think emigration might have to be the last resort if we really lost the fight.


It's been a question of late, but for myself I'm doubling down. I have wavered at times and considered options but, frankly, I feel deep down that to leave is.. I'd feel so guilty given I can take part in what I think is among the most pressing issues of the times, the border between freedom of speech and representative government over the alternative. I have certain skills and so I voluntarily lend those to the cause, mostly around design and materials to support global communications.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

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Gormwood
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Posts: 10930
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:36 pm

Bombadil wrote:American Factory is in contention for an Oscar, people should watch it to see the effects of the Chinese economy in your own lands..

In 2014, the Chinese auto glass manufacturer Fuyao bought a former General Motors car plant in Dayton, Ohio, that had been closed since 2008 – promising investment and hundreds of new jobs. Fuyao and its chairman Cao Dewang (referred to as “Chairman Cao”) were rewarded with euphoric praise – in a state that had been crushed by unemployment – and more than $6m in subsidies from Ohio state taxpayers.

The film shows how this good mood curdled as the workforce realised that to show their gratitude they were expected to conform to the Chinese culture of regimentation and submission, uncomplainingly working six or seven-day weeks, pushing up productivity at all costs and declining to make a fuss about decadent and lazy American indulgences such as lunch breaks and safety precautions. The management’s main concern was to crush any hint of a union. There is a major diplomatic incident at the opening ceremony when the Democratic Ohio state senator Sherrod Brown refers to the desirability of unions in his speech, to the displeasure of the Chinese management.

It is in China that we learn that unions there are not loathed, because they are an arm of the communist state, and the thought of them objecting to or impeding the management of a state-sanctioned company is unthinkable. American unions are of course a very different matter, and Fuyao is shown to ruthlessly intimidate trade unionists. The Chinese are also shown having policy meetings about how to deal with their exotic US workforce and a manager is shown calmly saying that it is their responsibility to give the Americans guidance “because we are better than them”.

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Pilipinas and Malaya
Diplomat
 
Posts: 951
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:13 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Tuthina wrote:All the more reason to demand for an independent investigation with the power of actually doing the investigation and not sucking up to the police, really.


Well the simple and sad truth is that China is effectively in direct control of all aspects of HK now, and there's simply no way they will allow an objective, independent investigation.

HK is dead now, it is irrevocably changed, the only possible hope is for the CCP to die.

Interestingly, for the first time ever, Immigration Department has rejected an employee visa application, word on the ground is they're tightening up on foreign workers. We've already seen in the past couple of years that China has been arresting and throwing out teachers..

BEIJING, August 13 (Reuters) - Arrests and deportations of foreign teachers in China have soared this year, lawyers, schools and teachers say, amid a broad crackdown defined by new police tactics and Beijing’s push for a “cleaner”, more patriotic education system.

Link

One silver lining is that IM might be thrown out at some point as they reform education in HK, they're already closely scrutinising teachers and demanding more 'patriotic' education in HK.


I wonder if he’ll continue to defend and create justification for the CCP and Ms. Lam then. But given his rather extreme views which include one statement where he’d defer to Xi because he’s just a lowly citizen makesme doubt that hypothesis to an extent.
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Bombadil
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Posts: 12414
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:01 am

Anyway.. if there is to be hope it lies here, that HK becomes a global issue in tandem with Taiwan

Beijing has said that anyone seeking to keep Taiwan separate from China would “leave a stink for 10,000 years” in its strongest remarks since the re-election of Tsai Ing-Wen, who opposes unification with China.

On Monday while on a tour in Africa the foreign minister, Wang Yi, said: “The unification of the two sides of the strait is a historical inevitability,” Xinhua news agency reported.

He described those going against this trend as bound to “stink for 10,000 years” an idiom to say one will “go down in infamy”.

Tsai’s landslide electoral victory on Saturday has been embarrassing for China, where state media spent most of the past year isolating Taiwan on the diplomatic stage, deriding Tsai and highlighting the popularity of her opponent, Han Kuo-yu, of the pro-China Kuomintang party.


I read a pretty touching article on the growing connections between HK and Taiwan, specifically among the youth. Oddly there's never really been much of a connection before. Taiwan's eyes are generally towards Japan and South Korea given their shared love of baseball, and HK generally sees Taiwan as a bit of a backwater, with a focus more on Singapore and China.

However now there's a common interest, it's like two distant cousins who never really knew each other have suddenly found they've a lot on common and are fast becoming bestest friends.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

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Catburg
Diplomat
 
Posts: 670
Founded: Dec 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Catburg » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:19 am

Bombadil wrote:Anyway.. if there is to be hope it lies here, that HK becomes a global issue in tandem with Taiwan

Beijing has said that anyone seeking to keep Taiwan separate from China would “leave a stink for 10,000 years” in its strongest remarks since the re-election of Tsai Ing-Wen, who opposes unification with China.

On Monday while on a tour in Africa the foreign minister, Wang Yi, said: “The unification of the two sides of the strait is a historical inevitability,” Xinhua news agency reported.

He described those going against this trend as bound to “stink for 10,000 years” an idiom to say one will “go down in infamy”.

Tsai’s landslide electoral victory on Saturday has been embarrassing for China, where state media spent most of the past year isolating Taiwan on the diplomatic stage, deriding Tsai and highlighting the popularity of her opponent, Han Kuo-yu, of the pro-China Kuomintang party.


I read a pretty touching article on the growing connections between HK and Taiwan, specifically among the youth. Oddly there's never really been much of a connection before. Taiwan's eyes are generally towards Japan and South Korea given their shared love of baseball, and HK generally sees Taiwan as a bit of a backwater, with a focus more on Singapore and China.

However now there's a common interest, it's like two distant cousins who never really knew each other have suddenly found they've a lot on common and are fast becoming bestest friends.


There aren’t enough Chinas on this planet. We need 10+ nuclear Chinas and several Free Cities such as Singapore, HK, Macau & Shanghai.

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Pilipinas and Malaya
Diplomat
 
Posts: 951
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:02 am

Bombadil wrote:Anyway.. if there is to be hope it lies here, that HK becomes a global issue in tandem with Taiwan

Beijing has said that anyone seeking to keep Taiwan separate from China would “leave a stink for 10,000 years” in its strongest remarks since the re-election of Tsai Ing-Wen, who opposes unification with China.

On Monday while on a tour in Africa the foreign minister, Wang Yi, said: “The unification of the two sides of the strait is a historical inevitability,” Xinhua news agency reported.

He described those going against this trend as bound to “stink for 10,000 years” an idiom to say one will “go down in infamy”.

Tsai’s landslide electoral victory on Saturday has been embarrassing for China, where state media spent most of the past year isolating Taiwan on the diplomatic stage, deriding Tsai and highlighting the popularity of her opponent, Han Kuo-yu, of the pro-China Kuomintang party.


I read a pretty touching article on the growing connections between HK and Taiwan, specifically among the youth. Oddly there's never really been much of a connection before. Taiwan's eyes are generally towards Japan and South Korea given their shared love of baseball, and HK generally sees Taiwan as a bit of a backwater, with a focus more on Singapore and China.

However now there's a common interest, it's like two distant cousins who never really knew each other have suddenly found they've a lot on common and are fast becoming bestest friends.


Yeah, the whole Beijing vs. Hong Kong thing really boosted Ms. Tsai's vote. And now, support of Hong Kong is growing in Taiwan as some sort of way to go astray from Beijing's wishes.
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You have to see this.
Please watch Blacklist, by any and all means.
Yes,my nation DOES represent most of my views,deal with it.

FREE HONG KONG 香港加油!

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Audioslavia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 2605
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Audioslavia » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:12 am

Bombadil wrote:One silver lining is that IM might be thrown out at some point as they reform education in HK, they're already closely scrutinising teachers and demanding more 'patriotic' education in HK.


*** Warning: Trolling ***. Wishing a fellow user gets arrested and deported is what we'd call bad-faith posting.

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Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4753
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Libertarian Police State

Postby Tuthina » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:31 am

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Anyway.. if there is to be hope it lies here, that HK becomes a global issue in tandem with Taiwan

Beijing has said that anyone seeking to keep Taiwan separate from China would “leave a stink for 10,000 years” in its strongest remarks since the re-election of Tsai Ing-Wen, who opposes unification with China.

On Monday while on a tour in Africa the foreign minister, Wang Yi, said: “The unification of the two sides of the strait is a historical inevitability,” Xinhua news agency reported.

He described those going against this trend as bound to “stink for 10,000 years” an idiom to say one will “go down in infamy”.

Tsai’s landslide electoral victory on Saturday has been embarrassing for China, where state media spent most of the past year isolating Taiwan on the diplomatic stage, deriding Tsai and highlighting the popularity of her opponent, Han Kuo-yu, of the pro-China Kuomintang party.


I read a pretty touching article on the growing connections between HK and Taiwan, specifically among the youth. Oddly there's never really been much of a connection before. Taiwan's eyes are generally towards Japan and South Korea given their shared love of baseball, and HK generally sees Taiwan as a bit of a backwater, with a focus more on Singapore and China.

However now there's a common interest, it's like two distant cousins who never really knew each other have suddenly found they've a lot on common and are fast becoming bestest friends.


Yeah, the whole Beijing vs. Hong Kong thing really boosted Ms. Tsai's vote. And now, support of Hong Kong is growing in Taiwan as some sort of way to go astray from Beijing's wishes.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to sell a platform of pro-PRC policy that will eventually lead to some sort of peaceful unification through One Country, Two Systems when a place that IS under One Country, Two Systems is going to hell at record speed. The longer the struggle continues, the more it will alienate China with, well, pretty much everyone in the developed world, and is arguably one of the things we're aiming for - there's a reason why one of the rally cries of the protesters is "if we burn, you burn with us".
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Bengal and Assam
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Postby Bengal and Assam » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:38 am

I can't believe it... The UK cvcked out Hong Kong...
They called the PoPo on the protesters at the consulate...
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Bombadil
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Posts: 12414
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:15 pm

Audioslavia wrote:
Bombadil wrote:One silver lining is that IM might be thrown out at some point as they reform education in HK, they're already closely scrutinising teachers and demanding more 'patriotic' education in HK.


*** Warning: Trolling ***. Wishing a fellow user gets arrested and deported is what we'd call bad-faith posting.


Frankly I'm shocked, I'd have thought IM would welcome the chance to obey CCP policy and enjoy the opportunity to leave a city he so clearly loathes. Given his sturdy defence of some 1M people being caught up by CCP policy in Xinjiang it really shouldn't matter if he's an innocent victim or not, the decision of the CCP is right by default. If he wishes to so stoutly defend CCP policy then he can accept the consequences when that policy affects him.

The silver lining, to be fair, is his, we'd still have to suffer his opinion no matter where he is in the world.

Also, technically, nowhere do I wish he is arrested, nor do I actively wish anything, I suggest it might be a silver lining.

However I don't care to contest, I'm just surprised that this is what triggers IM given his views and acceptance of this treatment of millions of people throughout China and beyond given order and authority must come first.
Last edited by Bombadil on Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

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Bombadil
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Posts: 12414
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:55 pm

Given he was barred from entering HK, at China's request, which absolutely contravenes Basic Law.. Philip Roth spoke at the more media packed UN Correspondents Association in New York..

The head of Human Rights Watch has accused the Chinese government of not only constructing “an Orwellian high-tech surveillance state” at home but using its growing economic clout to silence critics abroad.

Kenneth Roth said on Tuesday that China was carrying out “the most intense attack on the global system for enforcing human rights since that system began to emerge in the mid-20th century”.

He warned that if human rights weren’t defended, the world could face “a dystopian future in which no one is beyond the reach of Chinese censors”, with a global rights system so weakened that it can no longer serve as a check on government repression.

In the essay, Roth said the Chinese Communist Party is “worried that permitting political freedom would jeopardise its grasp on power” and “is running scared of its own people”.

“The consequence under President Xi Jinping is China’s most pervasive and brutal oppression in decades,” he said.

To avoid a global backlash against its surveillance, internet censorship and oppression at home, Roth said the government was trying to undermine international institutions designed to protect human rights.

Roth criticised UN secretary-general Antonio Guterres, saying despite the UN’s central role in promoting human rights, he has been “unwilling to publicly demand an end to China’s mass detention of Turkic Muslims, while heaping praise on Beijing’s economic prowess”.

Roth said the report showed China wasn’t the only threat to human rights, pointing to serious violations by the warring parties in Syria and Yemen.

He also cited “autocratic populists” who come to power by demonising minorities and retain it by attacking independent journalists, judges and activists who try to provide checks and balances on their rule.

“Some leaders, such as US president Donald Trump, Indian prime minister Narendra Modi, and Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro, bridle at the same body of international human rights law that China undermines,” Roth said.
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Pilipinas and Malaya
Diplomat
 
Posts: 951
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:17 am

Bombadil wrote:
Audioslavia wrote:
*** Warning: Trolling ***. Wishing a fellow user gets arrested and deported is what we'd call bad-faith posting.


Frankly I'm shocked, I'd have thought IM would welcome the chance to obey CCP policy and enjoy the opportunity to leave a city he so clearly loathes. Given his sturdy defence of some 1M people being caught up by CCP policy in Xinjiang it really shouldn't matter if he's an innocent victim or not, the decision of the CCP is right by default. If he wishes to so stoutly defend CCP policy then he can accept the consequences when that policy affects him.

The silver lining, to be fair, is his, we'd still have to suffer his opinion no matter where he is in the world.

Also, technically, nowhere do I wish he is arrested, nor do I actively wish anything, I suggest it might be a silver lining.

However I don't care to contest, I'm just surprised that this is what triggers IM given his views and acceptance of this treatment of millions of people throughout China and beyond given order and authority must come first.


You could theoretically present this with a second opinion flare.
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Yes,my nation DOES represent most of my views,deal with it.

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Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12414
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:32 pm

In her latest bid to garner more support, Carrie Lam announces.. more holidays!

Hong Kong’s leader Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor announced on Tuesday new initiatives aimed at propping up the economy and improving people’s lives in the wake of the months-long social unrest. Unveiling a HK$10 billion relief package, Lam also said the government intends to increase the number of statutory holidays for workers in the city to 17 days from the current 12.

Surprisingly, authorities did not consult with employers and business leaders before announcing the proposal to enhance the holidays, though the move would effectively raise the costs for businesses.


That would make the minimum holidays.. added to public holidays.. of which I think HK has the most in the world at 17.. some 34 days off each year. At my previous job I found it impossible to take so many days off to be honest. When I left I was paid an additional US$40K for outstanding leave.

Regardless, it's truly shameless how desperate she is rather than simply address the 5 demands.
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Infected Mushroom
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Posts: 30317
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:41 am

Bombadil wrote:In her latest bid to garner more support, Carrie Lam announces.. more holidays!

Hong Kong’s leader Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor announced on Tuesday new initiatives aimed at propping up the economy and improving people’s lives in the wake of the months-long social unrest. Unveiling a HK$10 billion relief package, Lam also said the government intends to increase the number of statutory holidays for workers in the city to 17 days from the current 12.

Surprisingly, authorities did not consult with employers and business leaders before announcing the proposal to enhance the holidays, though the move would effectively raise the costs for businesses.


That would make the minimum holidays.. added to public holidays.. of which I think HK has the most in the world at 17.. some 34 days off each year. At my previous job I found it impossible to take so many days off to be honest. When I left I was paid an additional US$40K for outstanding leave.

Regardless, it's truly shameless how desperate she is rather than simply address the 5 demands.


The five demands have been addressed in the following manner: They aren’t going to be met. A long term “cold shoulder” is a way to say no especially in Chinese culture.

I got that part months ago.

Anyways, these are great policies. I want more statutory holidays. This has just increased my support and admiration for the Lam government. It takes visionary leadership in such a workaholic society as Hong Kong to increase holidays in a bid to improve quality of life and productivity. Many eastern nations still cling to the notion that more work hours/overwork = more productivity. I’m glad Hong Kong is taking the lead here in changing that.

Wow 34 days off potentially next year? God I need those extra days (and I imagine lots of people do too). Thank you for helping the people out.

I’m very happy about this.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:47 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Bombadil
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Posts: 12414
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:53 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:In her latest bid to garner more support, Carrie Lam announces.. more holidays!

Hong Kong’s leader Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor announced on Tuesday new initiatives aimed at propping up the economy and improving people’s lives in the wake of the months-long social unrest. Unveiling a HK$10 billion relief package, Lam also said the government intends to increase the number of statutory holidays for workers in the city to 17 days from the current 12.

Surprisingly, authorities did not consult with employers and business leaders before announcing the proposal to enhance the holidays, though the move would effectively raise the costs for businesses.


That would make the minimum holidays.. added to public holidays.. of which I think HK has the most in the world at 17.. some 34 days off each year. At my previous job I found it impossible to take so many days off to be honest. When I left I was paid an additional US$40K for outstanding leave.

Regardless, it's truly shameless how desperate she is rather than simply address the 5 demands.


The five demands have been addressed in the following manner: They aren’t going to be met. A long term “cold shoulder” is a way to say no especially in Chinese culture.

I got that part months ago.

Anyways, these are great policies. I want more statutory holidays. This has just increased my support and admiration for the Lam government. It takes visionary leadership in such a workaholic society as Hong Kong to increase holidays in a bid to improve quality of life and productivity. Many eastern nations still cling to the notion that more work hours/overwork = more productivity. I’m glad Hong Kong is taking the lead here in changing that.

Wow 34 days off potentially next year? God I need those extra days (and I imagine lots of people do too). Thank you for helping the people out.

I’m very happy about this.


It's a populist measure that will likely upset a key area of support for her, business..

Surprisingly, authorities did not consult with employers and business leaders before announcing the proposal to enhance the holidays, though the move would effectively raise the costs for businesses.

Many businesses in the city, especially in sectors such as retail, catering and tourism, are trying to cut costs in the wake of the economic downturn caused by social disturbances and the US-China trade tensions. Against this backdrop, the plan for more statutory holidays for workers, businesses fear, mean additional impact on the bottom line.

Now, the government’s new proposal for more compulsory holidays would mean reduced operational flexibility and increased financial burden for businesses. Small firms unable to balance their books, it is feared, could down their shutters or retrench staff, leading to a spike in the jobless rate.

The Lam administration wants to win public support by offering more welfare measures. The proposal for more statutory holidays would be welcomed by blue-collar workers, but it is a different matter when it comes to the perspective of the business owners.

Authorities should brace for resistance from within the business community.


Translated from the Hong Kong Economic Journal..

It won't win over anyone else anyway.
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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30317
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:58 am

Bombadil wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
The five demands have been addressed in the following manner: They aren’t going to be met. A long term “cold shoulder” is a way to say no especially in Chinese culture.

I got that part months ago.

Anyways, these are great policies. I want more statutory holidays. This has just increased my support and admiration for the Lam government. It takes visionary leadership in such a workaholic society as Hong Kong to increase holidays in a bid to improve quality of life and productivity. Many eastern nations still cling to the notion that more work hours/overwork = more productivity. I’m glad Hong Kong is taking the lead here in changing that.

Wow 34 days off potentially next year? God I need those extra days (and I imagine lots of people do too). Thank you for helping the people out.

I’m very happy about this.


It's a populist measure that will likely upset a key area of support for her, business..

Surprisingly, authorities did not consult with employers and business leaders before announcing the proposal to enhance the holidays, though the move would effectively raise the costs for businesses.

Many businesses in the city, especially in sectors such as retail, catering and tourism, are trying to cut costs in the wake of the economic downturn caused by social disturbances and the US-China trade tensions. Against this backdrop, the plan for more statutory holidays for workers, businesses fear, mean additional impact on the bottom line.

Now, the government’s new proposal for more compulsory holidays would mean reduced operational flexibility and increased financial burden for businesses. Small firms unable to balance their books, it is feared, could down their shutters or retrench staff, leading to a spike in the jobless rate.

The Lam administration wants to win public support by offering more welfare measures. The proposal for more statutory holidays would be welcomed by blue-collar workers, but it is a different matter when it comes to the perspective of the business owners.

Authorities should brace for resistance from within the business community.


Translated from the Hong Kong Economic Journal..

It won't win over anyone else anyway.


How is it populism though? It’s literally good policy. It’s a policy of substance.

This is actually governance for the greater good. If I took power in government, that’s literally what I would immediately do (increase holidays). Better work life balance, better productivity, it’s a win win

I don’t think Lam cares about support here, she’s actually trying to govern for the greater good

This is her using her power to benefit the city, changing it for the better
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bombadil
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Founded: Oct 13, 2011
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
It's a populist measure that will likely upset a key area of support for her, business..

Surprisingly, authorities did not consult with employers and business leaders before announcing the proposal to enhance the holidays, though the move would effectively raise the costs for businesses.

Many businesses in the city, especially in sectors such as retail, catering and tourism, are trying to cut costs in the wake of the economic downturn caused by social disturbances and the US-China trade tensions. Against this backdrop, the plan for more statutory holidays for workers, businesses fear, mean additional impact on the bottom line.

Now, the government’s new proposal for more compulsory holidays would mean reduced operational flexibility and increased financial burden for businesses. Small firms unable to balance their books, it is feared, could down their shutters or retrench staff, leading to a spike in the jobless rate.

The Lam administration wants to win public support by offering more welfare measures. The proposal for more statutory holidays would be welcomed by blue-collar workers, but it is a different matter when it comes to the perspective of the business owners.

Authorities should brace for resistance from within the business community.


Translated from the Hong Kong Economic Journal..

It won't win over anyone else anyway.


How is it populism though? It’s literally good policy. It’s a policy of substance.

This is actually governance for the greater good. If I took power in government, that’s literally what I would immediately do (increase holidays). Better work life balance, better productivity, it’s a win win

I don’t think Lam cares about support here, she’s actually trying to govern for the greater good

This is her using her power to benefit the city, changing it for the better


It can be good policy in a healthy economy, not when business is already under strain. Throwing money and holidays at the issue is like divorced parents throwing the same at their kids to win.. the long term effects are rarely good.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:06 am

Bombadil wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
How is it populism though? It’s literally good policy. It’s a policy of substance.

This is actually governance for the greater good. If I took power in government, that’s literally what I would immediately do (increase holidays). Better work life balance, better productivity, it’s a win win

I don’t think Lam cares about support here, she’s actually trying to govern for the greater good

This is her using her power to benefit the city, changing it for the better


It can be good policy in a healthy economy, not when business is already under strain. Throwing money and holidays at the issue is like divorced parents throwing the same at their kids to win.. the long term effects are rarely good.


I still support it. I don’t think it will create a strain on the economy. Holidays help people be more productive.

We’ll have to wait and see but I predict this will make everyone happy and improve the economy. It’s one of the greatest policies ever passed in this region.
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Pilipinas and Malaya
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Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:25 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
It can be good policy in a healthy economy, not when business is already under strain. Throwing money and holidays at the issue is like divorced parents throwing the same at their kids to win.. the long term effects are rarely good.


I still support it. I don’t think it will create a strain on the economy. Holidays help people be more productive.

We’ll have to wait and see but I predict this will make everyone happy and improve the economy. It’s one of the greatest policies ever passed in this region.


But the companies on the other hand will probably have to compensate for money lost on these holidays. And with Chinese New Year coming up, the whole economy grinds to quite the halt.
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:48 am

More shilling this morning I see.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:52 am

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I still support it. I don’t think it will create a strain on the economy. Holidays help people be more productive.

We’ll have to wait and see but I predict this will make everyone happy and improve the economy. It’s one of the greatest policies ever passed in this region.


But the companies on the other hand will probably have to compensate for money lost on these holidays. And with Chinese New Year coming up, the whole economy grinds to quite the halt.


won't the vast majority of those extra statutory holidays be fairly spread out over the rest of the year and not overly concentrated in New Year?

I haven't looked at the details

However, Hong Kong, like Japan, is a very over-worked society, and without the government stepping in; companies will take full advantage of the workers

I'm glad the Lam administration and the PRC is taking steps to ameliorate this problem
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:01 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
But the companies on the other hand will probably have to compensate for money lost on these holidays. And with Chinese New Year coming up, the whole economy grinds to quite the halt.


won't the vast majority of those extra statutory holidays be fairly spread out over the rest of the year and not overly concentrated in New Year?

I haven't looked at the details

However, Hong Kong, like Japan, is a very over-worked society, and without the government stepping in; companies will take full advantage of the workers

I'm glad the Lam administration and the PRC is taking steps to ameliorate this problem


They're not public holidays, they're to ensure companies give a minimum 17 days holiday, employees can take them whenever.

I'm not essentially against extra holidays, though as I noted it's hard to take so many already, and that means businesses literally have to pay out the difference. It will hit small businesses hard. It's essentially meaning you get 10 and a half months out of a year per employee.

However mainly it's a clearly see-through and poorly thought out attempt to win favour. They didn't even bother to consult businesses because, hey, asking for opinion from those you affect is hardly their forte.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:13 am

Bombadil wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
won't the vast majority of those extra statutory holidays be fairly spread out over the rest of the year and not overly concentrated in New Year?

I haven't looked at the details

However, Hong Kong, like Japan, is a very over-worked society, and without the government stepping in; companies will take full advantage of the workers

I'm glad the Lam administration and the PRC is taking steps to ameliorate this problem


They're not public holidays, they're to ensure companies give a minimum 17 days holiday, employees can take them whenever.

I'm not essentially against extra holidays, though as I noted it's hard to take so many already, and that means businesses literally have to pay out the difference. It will hit small businesses hard. It's essentially meaning you get 10 and a half months out of a year per employee.

However mainly it's a clearly see-through and poorly thought out attempt to win favour. They didn't even bother to consult businesses because, hey, asking for opinion from those you affect is hardly their forte.


I'm confused now.

What do you mean "10 and a half months out of a year per employee"?

There are 12 months a year. How much holidays does this bill give? Not 10 months right?
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:15 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
They're not public holidays, they're to ensure companies give a minimum 17 days holiday, employees can take them whenever.

I'm not essentially against extra holidays, though as I noted it's hard to take so many already, and that means businesses literally have to pay out the difference. It will hit small businesses hard. It's essentially meaning you get 10 and a half months out of a year per employee.

However mainly it's a clearly see-through and poorly thought out attempt to win favour. They didn't even bother to consult businesses because, hey, asking for opinion from those you affect is hardly their forte.


I'm confused now.

What do you mean "10 and a half months out of a year per employee"?

There are 12 months a year. How much holidays does this bill give? Not 10 months right?

*Sigh*
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:17 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
They're not public holidays, they're to ensure companies give a minimum 17 days holiday, employees can take them whenever.

I'm not essentially against extra holidays, though as I noted it's hard to take so many already, and that means businesses literally have to pay out the difference. It will hit small businesses hard. It's essentially meaning you get 10 and a half months out of a year per employee.

However mainly it's a clearly see-through and poorly thought out attempt to win favour. They didn't even bother to consult businesses because, hey, asking for opinion from those you affect is hardly their forte.


I'm confused now.

What do you mean "10 and a half months out of a year per employee"?

There are 12 months a year. How much holidays does this bill give? Not 10 months right?


I think they mean 10 and a half months a year of work, meaning one and a half months of no work.

That's if my currently tired-ass reading comprehension still works, anyway, I really should go to bed.

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