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Fat Man on a Bridge

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What would you do?

Push the man off the bridge
44
51%
Don't push the man off the bridge
42
49%
 
Total votes : 86
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Nuroblav
Minister
 
Posts: 2352
Founded: Nov 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Fat Man on a Bridge

Postby Nuroblav » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:13 am

This was a problem that I came across last year and actually found quite interesting. Since I remembered it today I thought I might put it forward to you all - it seems to be quite famous so here it goes:

You are standing on a bridge over a railway track. Five people below are stranded on the track and a train is heading towards them. They will die if hit.

Also on the bridge with you is a fat man. If you push this man off the bridge he will be large enough to stop the train and save the five people; unfortunately this guy will die instead.

So what do you do NSG? Save the 5 people of save the man? This follows the same theory as the Trolley Problem if this sounds familiar.

In my opinion, I would push the guy off as, although he will die, it will save the lives of the people below.

Fire away NSG!
Your NS mutualist(?), individualist, metalhead and all-round...err...human. TG if you have any questions about my political or musical views.

Economic Left/Right: -4.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03

\m/ METAL IS BASED \m/
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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:13 am

If the man is so fat he can stop a train, I doubt I'll have the strength to move him.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.

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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:15 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-aPp7Kiiyg
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Cybernetic India
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Aug 10, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cybernetic India » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:17 am

I push the Fat Man (a 20-kiloton nuclear bomb) off of the bridge, causing a massive explosion killing everyone in a massive radius.
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Nuroblav
Minister
 
Posts: 2352
Founded: Nov 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nuroblav » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:18 am

Galloism wrote:If the man is so fat he can stop a train, I doubt I'll have the strength to move him.

Didn't think of that :D

I was going to ask what you would do if you could, but then again I think few people would actually be able to.
Your NS mutualist(?), individualist, metalhead and all-round...err...human. TG if you have any questions about my political or musical views.

Economic Left/Right: -4.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03

\m/ METAL IS BASED \m/
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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:20 am

Nuroblav wrote:Also on the bridge with you is a fat man. If you push this man off the bridge he will be large enough to stop the train and save the five people

Image
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.
The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:22 am

Cybernetic India wrote:I push the Fat Man (a 20-kiloton nuclear bomb) off of the bridge, causing a massive explosion killing everyone in a massive radius.

this
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper
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Xuloqoia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1901
Founded: Oct 05, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Xuloqoia » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:22 am

Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?
I may return for somewhat longer than I was initially expecting. Why am I here? No idea whatsoever. I really ought to find some way out of this place.

Also, the NS stats don't reflect my RL views, just to clarify.
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:25 am

Xuloqoia wrote:Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?

lol why would you do that?
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper
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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:25 am

Xuloqoia wrote:Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?

How fat are you?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:26 am

Galloism wrote:
Xuloqoia wrote:Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?

How fat are you?

Surely not so fat he could stop a moving train.

BTW, how did someone so fat even manage to get up on the bridge in the first place?
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper
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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:27 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Galloism wrote:How fat are you?

Surely not so fat he could stop a moving train.

BTW, how did someone so fat even manage to get up on the bridge in the first place?


Someone told them there was a Mars bar up there.
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Xuloqoia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1901
Founded: Oct 05, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Xuloqoia » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:27 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Xuloqoia wrote:Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?

lol why would you do that?


So that I can save the lives without killing someone else?

Galloism wrote:
Xuloqoia wrote:Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?

How fat are you?


Not particularly; kind of average in that regard I guess, given that I'm tall and broad-shouldered and such.
I may return for somewhat longer than I was initially expecting. Why am I here? No idea whatsoever. I really ought to find some way out of this place.

Also, the NS stats don't reflect my RL views, just to clarify.
Top
User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:27 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Galloism wrote:How fat are you?

Surely not so fat he could stop a moving train.

BTW, how did someone so fat even manage to get up on the bridge in the first place?

Better idea: use the waiting crane to stop the train. If it can get the man fat enough to stop a train on top of the bridge, it should be able to grab the train.
Last edited by Galloism on Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.

Top
User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:27 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:BTW, how did someone so fat even manage to get up on the bridge in the first place?

Not all bridges require you to go "up"...
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.
The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Andsed
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13443
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Andsed » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:29 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Xuloqoia wrote:Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?

lol why would you do that?

To save the lives of others? Seems pretty simple.
I do be tired


LOVEWHOYOUARE~
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:29 am

Xuloqoia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:lol why would you do that?


So that I can save the lives without killing someone else?

Galloism wrote:How fat are you?


Not particularly; kind of average in that regard I guess, given that I'm tall and broad-shouldered and such.

Lol think of yourself before randomers you don't know, basic self-preservation.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper
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Great Jenovah
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 48
Founded: Dec 02, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Great Jenovah » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:29 am

Xuloqoia wrote:Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?

that wouldnt work
BN, I do not use NS stats.
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Zjaum
Senator
 
Posts: 3919
Founded: Oct 15, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Zjaum » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:29 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Galloism wrote:How fat are you?

Surely not so fat he could stop a moving train.

BTW, how did someone so fat even manage to get up on the bridge in the first place?

Heavy-duty elevator, and/or motorized walking assistant.
I use my NationStates stats, because a population of billions/trillions and an economy of hundreds of trillions is totally viable, trust me.
But seriously, aside from the population and GDP, just assume that my NS stats are roughly accurate.

Support: Paleo-imperialism, conservatism, libertarianism, Christianity.
Against: Stupid people, resistance to industrial progress, alt-right, any form of government at or beyond socialism.

I hail from The League of Conservative Nations. Hearts unthawed, hearts unshaken!

Takaka Tar' Turayi,
The stars will be ours someday.
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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:30 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Lol think of yourself before randomers you don't know, basic self-preservation.

Human beings have also been known to sacrifice themselves when necessary.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.
The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Top
User avatar
Andsed
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13443
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Andsed » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:31 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Xuloqoia wrote:
So that I can save the lives without killing someone else?



Not particularly; kind of average in that regard I guess, given that I'm tall and broad-shouldered and such.

Lol think of yourself before randomers you don't know, basic self-preservation.

Nah. I prefer to put others before myself.
I do be tired


LOVEWHOYOUARE~
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:31 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:BTW, how did someone so fat even manage to get up on the bridge in the first place?

Not all bridges require you to go "up"...

Yes they do, those that don't are lying and are not real bridges.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper
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Xuloqoia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1901
Founded: Oct 05, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Xuloqoia » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:32 am

Great Jenovah wrote:
Xuloqoia wrote:Y'know, I've always wanted to ask the following when faced with "trolley dilemma" style conundrums: is sacrificing myself an option? To save the five people without sacrificing the life of the other person. Sacrifice myself instead. Is that allowed?

that wouldnt work


The question is, trappings (such as the trolley) aside, about whether ending one life is acceptable to save five. Why can't that life be my own instead of the other person's?
I may return for somewhat longer than I was initially expecting. Why am I here? No idea whatsoever. I really ought to find some way out of this place.

Also, the NS stats don't reflect my RL views, just to clarify.
Top
User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:32 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Not all bridges require you to go "up"...

Yes they do, those that don't are lying and are not real bridges.

No, they don't.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.
The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Top
User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:32 am

Andsed wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Lol think of yourself before randomers you don't know, basic self-preservation.

Nah. I prefer to put others before myself.

Why would you do that?
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper
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