Police Fire At Hostage & Use Human Shields

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Using a civilian vehicle as cover.

was the civilian vehicle occupied?

Some were, some weren't.

[Loben The 2nd]

was the civilian vehicle occupied?

Some were, some weren't.

that doesnt exactly paint a clear picture.

hell do war crimes even apply to Law enforcement?

[Magnum Exitium]

Yes, so instead of taking cover from fire behind a metal vehicle, police should stand out in the open and get shot at there, because god forbid they try to live.

[Chernoslavia]

Disarming the police is of utmost stupidity. The strength of law is dependent on the strength of arms. Fear is what morality and the law are upheld by, take away their arms and no one will listen to the government, much less follow the laws.

Nations exist that have unarmed police officers. It's entirely possible to have law and order without arming cops.

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so lets play a game say your in the LAPD and you roll up on to drugged up bank robbers wearing homemade head to toe body armor toting ak-47s and hk91's and they start firing at you are you just gonna sit there and let them kill you because you think police shouldn't be armed.

No, I'd floor and get the hell out of there. What would you do? Pop off a few shots with your 9mm and hope you can get an opening to get out of your car and get to the rifle in the back before you're killed?

instead of solving the problem you would be helping it get worse by disarming police. plus even the LAPD swat had a hard time during the North Hollywood Shootout and the SLA shootout in 74 hell the FBI had a difficult time during Waco what im trying to say is your idea is stupid. What happens if an armed gunman walks into your home and takes them hostage and you too far away are you gonna call your non-existent un armed police?

Yeah, and they would send in the highly trained firearms unit, which is exactly who I would want securing the safety of my family, not some dipshit who'd sacrifice their lives to kill the hostage takers or kill my neighbour with a stray shot.

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Why is there no option to praise the police and give them more military equipment and power?

Judge Dredd option or martial law option.

1. And those nations aren't other more populous and diverse nations with. Those nations also don't have a problem with drug and weapon smuggling. Like I said, you have no idea what it's like to be patrolling high crime areas in the US.

2. Or simply just shoot them in the foot after discovering they aren't armored? Y'know like they've actually did to stop them.

3. Implying PDs here don't have SRT units that specialize in this scenario.

4. Strawman fallacy.

[Loben The 2nd]

Nations exist that have unarmed police officers. It's entirely possible to have law and order without arming cops.

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No, I'd floor and get the hell out of there. What would you do? Pop off a few shots with your 9mm and hope you can get an opening to get out of your car and get to the rifle in the back before you're killed?

Yeah, and they would send in the highly trained firearms unit, which is exactly who I would want securing the safety of my family, not some dipshit who'd sacrifice their lives to kill the hostage takers or kill my neighbour with a stray shot.

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Judge Dredd option or martial law option.

1. And those nations aren't other more populous and diverse nations with. Those nations also don't have a problem with drug and weapon smuggling. Like I said, you have no idea what it's like to be patrolling high crime areas in the US.

2. Implying PDs here don't have SRT units that specialize in this scenario.

3. Strawman fallacy.

wasnt that long ago that Ireland had a bit of a problem with the IRA....

[Xeknos]

I wouldn't disarm the police, but I'd certainly demilitarize them. I'd also increase their training - the "shoot first, ask questions later" position is becoming way too common in the US police force.

[Diopolis]

Nations exist that have unarmed police officers. It's entirely possible to have law and order without arming cops.

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No, I'd floor and get the hell out of there. What would you do? Pop off a few shots with your 9mm and hope you can get an opening to get out of your car and get to the rifle in the back before you're killed?

Yeah, and they would send in the highly trained firearms unit, which is exactly who I would want securing the safety of my family, not some dipshit who'd sacrifice their lives to kill the hostage takers or kill my neighbour with a stray shot.

---

Judge Dredd option or martial law option.

1. And those nations aren't other more populous and diverse nations with. Those nations also don't have a problem with drug and weapon smuggling. Like I said, you have no idea what it's like to be patrolling high crime areas in the US.

2. Implying PDs here don't have SRT units that specialize in this scenario.

3. Strawman fallacy.

I mean, countries with disarmed police don’t generally have more guns than people.

[Diopolis]

1. And those nations aren't other more populous and diverse nations with. Those nations also don't have a problem with drug and weapon smuggling. Like I said, you have no idea what it's like to be patrolling high crime areas in the US.

2. Implying PDs here don't have SRT units that specialize in this scenario.

3. Strawman fallacy.

wasnt that long ago that Ireland had a bit of a problem with the IRA....

IIRC, northern Irish police are armed.

[Rainbowsix]

I wouldn't disarm the police, but I'd certainly demilitarize them. I'd also increase their training - the "shoot first, ask questions later" position is becoming way too common in the US police force.

idk who told you it's shoot 1st ask questions later... i think you need to educate urself more before saying that

[Arlenton]

Horrible job by the police. Should all be charged for something.


But disarming the police is a stupid idea. They just need to be held accountable.

[Magnum Exitium]

1. And those nations aren't other more populous and diverse nations with. Those nations also don't have a problem with drug and weapon smuggling. Like I said, you have no idea what it's like to be patrolling high crime areas in the US.

2. Implying PDs here don't have SRT units that specialize in this scenario.

3. Strawman fallacy.

wasnt that long ago that Ireland had a bit of a problem with the IRA....

Yeah, while, yah know, the British Military was deployed there. But whatever.

[Loben The 2nd]

wasnt that long ago that Ireland had a bit of a problem with the IRA....

IIRC, northern Irish police are armed.

as they should be.

[Loben The 2nd]

wasnt that long ago that Ireland had a bit of a problem with the IRA....

Yeah, while, yah know, the British Military was deployed there. But whatever.

as was sensible.

[Gig em Aggies]

Yeah, while, yah know, the British Military was deployed there. But whatever.

as was sensible.

your reminding me of the IRA vs SAS Episode of Deadliest Warrior

[Loben The 2nd]

as was sensible.

your reminding me of the IRA vs SAS Episode of Deadliest Warrior

wasnt that IRA vs Taliban?

[Gagium]

Horrible job by the police. Should all be charged for something.


But disarming the police is a stupid idea. They just need to be held accountable.

They should all be charged for..something? :l

[Saiwania]

If civilian ownership of firearms is allowed and protected as a right in the US, then obviously American police can't be disarmed. Thats not a rational decision in that it'd purposely put the state at a disadvantage.

The issue is more that police forces are too militarized in the wrong areas, because of the war on drugs and the flaws of the 1033 program where surplus military equipment is just given to police departments, which are under pressure to use such equipment if they're not eligible for more if they don't use it in a given year.

Nothing wrong with having one elite unit for the most difficult scenarios, but its asinine if deployed outside their intended role. Which ideally, is for if lesser force has failed.

The police militarization problem only really accelerated in the US during the 1980s (at earliest) to the present day. Wasn't present during the 1970s or before.

[Torrocca]

Police institutions need to be dismantled entirely.

[Vistulange]

Disarming the police is of utmost stupidity. The strength of law is dependent on the strength of arms. Fear is what morality and the law are upheld by, take away their arms and no one will listen to the government, much less follow the laws.

Don't cut yourself on that edge.

[Necroghastia]

Fucking assholes. There was no reason for them to engage in this manner.

Disarming the police is of
utmost stupidity. The strength of law is dependent on the strength of arms. Fear is what morality and the law are upheld by, take away their arms and no one will listen to the government, much less follow the laws.

Machiavelli was a dipshit of the highest order.

[United Usonia]

We need to demilitarize the police.
Police officers need more training.
And in cases like this, where the police handle the situation with such reckless behavior, we need to charge the officers with the deaths of the bystanders.

[The Great-German Empire]

For better or for worse (I argue for better, but I know many disagree), the US is an armed society. Many of its civilians are armed, and its criminals are certainly armed - only makes sense that the police would be, too. This situation where occupied vehicles were used as cover is certainly regrettable, but it's also only one situation. The problem here wasn't even that the police were armed, but rather that police elected to pursue the robbers even in such a densely-occupied area, and with a hostage no less, when there are ample ways of tracking them for a later arrest. My solution? Just rewrite some guidelines and carry on. No need to endanger policeman lives all around the country and reduce their efficiency because somebody in an isolated situation made the wrong call.

Police definitely need more physical and psychological training, though. It's not the same job as grocery bagging, you need to actually know how to handle tense situations with lives on the line - and have the skills to make it go your way.

[Nakena]

Police institutions need to be dismantled entirely.

Rise of the Gangs.

[Arlenton]

Horrible job by the police. Should all be charged for something.


But disarming the police is a stupid idea. They just need to be held accountable.

They should all be charged for..something? :l

So you want them off the hook??

[Aeritai]

I think police should just be giving handguns and tasers, for less dangerous crime scenes and let SWAT have their fancy weapons for very dangerous crime scenes like this armed robbery incident.