Police Fire At Hostage & Use Human Shields

[Cantelo]

What the actual fuck is wrong with you people thinking the police should be punished for doing their God damn job? Do you think, what, that any armed and dangerous criminal should be allowed to get away scot-free just because they have an hostage? If we did that hostage-taking would be the new national fucking pass time. It's a tragedy the UPS driver was killer of course, but it's not the fault of the police. Those robbers were a threat to public safety, which means the police had every right to engage and neutralize that threat - especially after the pricks started shooting at the cops. The fact it took place on a crowded freeway is also a tragedy, but again that isn't the police's fault.

Armed & dangerous suspects had robbed a jewelry store and were escaping with a hostage, police pursued - as they are fucking supposed to - and were fired open. They returned fire - as they are fucking supposed to - and unfortunately an innocent man was killed in the crossfire. It's a tragedy it ended this way, but it could have ended up much fucking worse if the thugs had been allowed to escape and you're in complete fucking denial if you actually believe otherwise. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the police avoiding violence at every turn will somehow make things better.

Anyone with a hard-on for police hatred is just as much of an ignoramus as anyone with a hard-on for militarizing the police. Both of these extreme positions are fucking stupid and detrimental to any debate regarding law enforcement. The fact of the matter here is that the police did what they are paid to do. It didn't turn out perfect, but this isn't fucking TV. This is how it works sometimes. Sometimes you don't get the best ending with puppies, rainbows, and giggling babies. Sometimes innocent people fucking die. It's not pretty, but that's life.

The police did their job. It's not a happy ending, but it can't always be. Get the fuck over it.

No but what the actual fuck is wrong with you for trying to defend these Walmart G.I Joe's firing into traffic and murdering two innocents? We all know these high school peakers are gonna get away scot free for doing their little tribute to the Waco Siege and there ain't a goddamn thing we can do about it. Our system is so fucking broken that it allows for shit like this to happen, this isn't normal anywhere else but here and that's a tragedy. Fuck the way our cops are trained, fuck the thin blue line. I don't support these power-tripping, state-sanctioned gang members.

[Galloism]

What the actual fuck is wrong with you people thinking the police should be punished for doing their God damn job? Do you think, what, that any armed and dangerous criminal should be allowed to get away scot-free just because they have an hostage? If we did that hostage-taking would be the new national fucking pass time. It's a tragedy the UPS driver was killer of course, but it's not the fault of the police. Those robbers were a threat to public safety, which means the police had every right to engage and neutralize that threat - especially after the pricks started shooting at the cops. The fact it took place on a crowded freeway is also a tragedy, but again that isn't the police's fault.

Armed & dangerous suspects had robbed a jewelry store and were escaping with a hostage, police pursued - as they are fucking supposed to - and were fired open. They returned fire - as they are fucking supposed to - and unfortunately an innocent man was killed in the crossfire. It's a tragedy it ended this way, but it could have ended up much fucking worse if the thugs had been allowed to escape and you're in complete fucking denial if you actually believe otherwise. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the police avoiding violence at every turn will somehow make things better.

Anyone with a hard-on for police hatred is just as much of an ignoramus as anyone with a hard-on for militarizing the police. Both of these extreme positions are fucking stupid and detrimental to any debate regarding law enforcement. The fact of the matter here is that the police did what they are paid to do. It didn't turn out perfect, but this isn't fucking TV. This is how it works sometimes. Sometimes you don't get the best ending with puppies, rainbows, and giggling babies. Sometimes innocent people fucking die. It's not pretty, but that's life.

The police did their job. It's not a happy ending, but it can't always be. Get the fuck over it.

Have you reviewed the footage and documentation to see if the actions were reasonable?

I haven't. But just as sometimes moving in is the right action, sometimes pulling back and getting a negotiator is the right action. These things are routinely reviewed to see if the actions were reasonable (for employment or criminal related reasons) and, even if they were, whether or not they were the best choice (for training/coaching purposes).

It's standard procedure.

I haven't reviewed it at all, but saying it's worth review isn't anti-police. It's holding the police accountable.

Saying "there was a hostage so they can do whatever the fuck they want and it's the other guys fault" is foolishness.

[Nakena]

In my totally unqualified opinion they should have used armored cars and resorted to ram them. Like ramming them really hard. Repeatedly.

[Kafair]

In my totally unqualified opinion they should have used armored cars and resorted to ram them. Like ramming them really hard. Repeatedly.

^^^

They should also put explosives in the cars, so they can be really sure they get the person.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

What the actual fuck is wrong with you people thinking the police should be punished for doing their God damn job? Do you think, what, that any armed and dangerous criminal should be allowed to get away scot-free just because they have an hostage? If we did that hostage-taking would be the new national fucking pass time. It's a tragedy the UPS driver was killer of course, but it's not the fault of the police. Those robbers were a threat to public safety, which means the police had every right to engage and neutralize that threat - especially after the pricks started shooting at the cops. The fact it took place on a crowded freeway is also a tragedy, but again that isn't the police's fault.

Armed & dangerous suspects had robbed a jewelry store and were escaping with a hostage, police pursued - as they are fucking supposed to - and were fired open. They returned fire - as they are fucking supposed to - and unfortunately an innocent man was killed in the crossfire. It's a tragedy it ended this way, but it could have ended up much fucking worse if the thugs had been allowed to escape and you're in complete fucking denial if you actually believe otherwise. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the police avoiding violence at every turn will somehow make things better.

Anyone with a hard-on for police hatred is just as much of an ignoramus as anyone with a hard-on for militarizing the police. Both of these extreme positions are fucking stupid and detrimental to any debate regarding law enforcement. The fact of the matter here is that the police did what they are paid to do. It didn't turn out perfect, but this isn't fucking TV. This is how it works sometimes. Sometimes you don't get the best ending with puppies, rainbows, and giggling babies. Sometimes innocent people fucking die. It's not pretty, but that's life.

The police did their job. It's not a happy ending, but it can't always be. Get the fuck over it.

Have you reviewed the footage and documentation to see if the actions were reasonable?

I haven't. But just as sometimes moving in is the right action, sometimes pulling back and getting a negotiator is the right action. These things are routinely reviewed to see if the actions were reasonable (for employment or criminal related reasons) and, even if they were, whether or not they were the best choice (for training/coaching purposes).

It's standard procedure.

I haven't reviewed it at all, but saying it's worth review isn't anti-police. It's holding the police accountable.

Saying "there was a hostage so they can do whatever the fuck they want and it's the other guys fault" is foolishness.

Except I haven't seen anyone say anything like that. All I've seen is people outright calling for the dissolution of the police force, ignoring how catastrophic that would be on American society. This isn't Europe. We have too many problems we have to fix before we look at law enforcement reform, but these people aren't advocating reform - they want the destruction of the entire institution. That would leave us at the mercy of every gang, cartel, and mafia from here to Anchorage. It's fucking madness and it needs to stop.

The police are not a fucking death squad and people who think they are are thoroughly detached from reality.

[Byrdonia]

We should instate the death penalty for stuff like this rape child abuse drug dealing and instate hanging again. That should be a good deterrent l

[The New California Republic]

We should instate the death penalty for stuff like this rape child abuse drug dealing and instate hanging again. That should be a good deterrent l

The murder rate in non death penalty states has been consistently lower than in those states with the death penalty, so arguing that the death penalty acts as a "good deterrent" is flawed:

[Byrdonia]

We should instate the death penalty for stuff like this rape child abuse drug dealing and instate hanging again. That should be a good deterrent l

The murder rate in non death penalty states has been consistently lower than in those states with the death penalty, so arguing that the death penalty acts as a "good deterrent" is flawed:
Thank you for pointing that out. But the hanging thing might help

[The Two Jerseys]

OP conveniently ignores the fact that the criminals started shooting first.

[The New California Republic]

The murder rate in non death penalty states has been consistently lower than in those states with the death penalty, so arguing that the death penalty acts as a "good deterrent" is flawed:
(Image)

Thank you for pointing that out. But the hanging thing might help

I really don't see how.

[Byrdonia]

Thank you for pointing that out. But the hanging thing might help

I really don't see how.

It's a bit worse than the humaner ways that are done. It can take a while and is painful

[Satuga]

I really don't see how.

I see some rather important facts being kinda left out in that graph, like what is the population ratio between these states? What are the education levels in these states, and what are the drug uses in theses states. All of these can take a factor when you compare something as broad as multi-state.

[Byrdonia]

[background=][/background]

I really don't see how.

I see some rather important facts being kinda left out in that graph, like what is the population ratio between these states? What are the education levels in these states, and what are the drug uses in theses states. All of these can take a factor when you compare something as broad as multi-state.

Yah know your right. Thank you

[The New California Republic]

I really don't see how.

It's a bit worse than the humaner ways that are done. It can take a while and is painful

Not really. I can't really get into it because of PG-13 and all that, but death penalty by hanging—when done properly—is instant.

[Bloodshade]

What the actual fuck is wrong with you people thinking the police should be punished for doing their God damn job? Do you think, what, that any armed and dangerous criminal should be allowed to get away scot-free just because they have an hostage? If we did that hostage-taking would be the new national fucking pass time. It's a tragedy the UPS driver was killer of course, but it's not the fault of the police. Those robbers were a threat to public safety, which means the police had every right to engage and neutralize that threat - especially after the pricks started shooting at the cops. The fact it took place on a crowded freeway is also a tragedy, but again that isn't the police's fault.

Armed & dangerous suspects had robbed a jewelry store and were escaping with a hostage, police pursued - as they are fucking supposed to - and were fired open. They returned fire - as they are fucking supposed to - and unfortunately an innocent man was killed in the crossfire. It's a tragedy it ended this way, but it could have ended up much fucking worse if the thugs had been allowed to escape and you're in complete fucking denial if you actually believe otherwise. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the police avoiding violence at every turn will somehow make things better.

Anyone with a hard-on for police hatred is just as much of an ignoramus as anyone with a hard-on for militarizing the police. Both of these extreme positions are fucking stupid and detrimental to any debate regarding law enforcement. The fact of the matter here is that the police did what they are paid to do. It didn't turn out perfect, but this isn't fucking TV. This is how it works sometimes. Sometimes you don't get the best ending with puppies, rainbows, and giggling babies. Sometimes innocent people fucking die. It's not pretty, but that's life.

The police did their job. It's not a happy ending, but it can't always be. Get the fuck over it.

So their job is blasting away at the hostage taker and hostage with no regard for the hostage's life? You're more or less sentencing hostages to death for simply being a victim in this situation. I'm very sure this is not how police officers are supposed to tackle a hostage situation and no, I don't expect the day to end in puppies, rainbows and giggling babies. I understand that not every hostage negotiation will end successfully but in this case, there were clearly more than enough police officers and resources at hand to deal with the situation and to ensure that the hijacker wasn't able to escape but nineteen police officers clearly thought it was wise to shoot at the UPS vehicle in a crowded highway. I'm no police officer but I'm rather sure that this isn't the first action a police officer should resort to when dealing with a hostage situation, let alone killing a hostage.

I understand that you're frustrated at hearing calls for the police to be dismantled for this case alone. Look, I'll speak for myself. I don't want the police to be dismantled. I just want them to be held accountable for reckless behavior that resulted in the death of an innocent man. Simple as that. You can't encourage this kind of behavior by letting them go with a slap on the wrist. I generally support the police but I don't support them when they're resorting to these kinds of reckless actions.

Anyways, I'll be curious to see what fate these police officers have in store for them. I'm sure no one is going to entertain the idea of abolishing the police anyways so you probably should just treat such an idea as a joke.

In my totally unqualified opinion they should have used armored cars and resorted to ram them. Like ramming them really hard. Repeatedly.

There are some very odd images in my head right now.

[Byrdonia]

It's a bit worse than the humaner ways that are done. It can take a while and is painful

Not really. I can't really get into it because of PG-13 and all that, but death penalty by hanging—when done properly—is instant.

Yes but that means if you know how to properly do it you know how to do it so it takes a while

[Fartsniffage]

Not really. I can't really get into it because of PG-13 and all that, but death penalty by hanging—when done properly—is instant.

Yes but that means if you know how to properly do it you know how to do it so it takes a while

There are books that tell you how to do it. All about knot position and drop. All you need is the weight and height of the person.

[The Zravvisk]

I really don't see how.

It's a bit worse than the humaner ways that are done. It can take a while and is painful

Can't be worse than lethal injection which when botched makes the convicted bloods feel like fire and they'll scream for how long until they die. And then remember that there are no skilled doctors involved with administering said injections.

[The New California Republic]

Not really. I can't really get into it because of PG-13 and all that, but death penalty by hanging—when done properly—is instant.

Yes but that means if you know how to properly do it you know how to do it so it takes a while

Not really, as the prep is done before the convicted criminal gets there. They aren't sat twiddling their thumbs while they get the scaffold ready.

But seriously, this is only barely related to the thread topic at this point, so we should get back on track, lest we dip into the depths of threadjacking.

[Byrdonia]

Yes but that means if you know how to properly do it you know how to do it so it takes a while

Not really, as the prep is done before the convicted criminal gets there. They aren't sat twiddling their thumbs while they get the scaffold ready.

But seriously, this is only barely related to the thread topic at this point, so we should get back on track, lest we dip into the depths of threadjacking.

Agreed. You are a good debating opponent

[Chernoslavia]

Yes but that means if you know how to properly do it you know how to do it so it takes a while

There are books that tell you how to do it. All about knot position and drop. All you need is the weight and height of the person.

A .30-06 round only costs 75 cents at most just saying.

[Byrdonia]

There are books that tell you how to do it. All about knot position and drop. All you need is the weight and height of the person.

A .30-06 round only costs 75 cents at most just saying.

Hmm cheap and effective. Firing squad is the best choice

[The Two Jerseys]

Yes but that means if you know how to properly do it you know how to do it so it takes a while

There are books that tell you how to do it. All about knot position and drop. All you need is the weight and height of the person.

The table of drops is literally on Wikipedia.

[Byrdonia]

Quick question were do I go to do signature sorry it's off topic just trying to figure it out

[Xogg]

Disarming the police is of utmost stupidity. The strength of law is dependent on the strength of arms.

I like how he uses this one incident to demonize all police officers and call for their disarmament. Clearly he's never been in a Detroit style neighborhood.

Ifreann strawmans pretty hard and I think we all know it by now