Police Fire At Hostage & Use Human Shields

[Loben The 2nd]

No amount of training will prepare you for the real situation of near death, saying that is ignorant as fuck.

The army seems to manage pretty well. Fuck, countries with specialist armed response police forces seem to manage to keep them well trained enough to not do stupid shit like this. All of the available evidence seems to point to you talking out of your fucking arse.

do they train people to stay out in the open *while getting shot at*

[Salandriagado]

1. Have you actually watched the bloody video? That not how it went down. But please, continue with this misinformed argument, it's the only conceivable way for your argument to actually hold any weight.
2. No, he should've definitely gone in. He was the only one on sight, which means that he needed to at least check out the situation and relay any useful info to other cops and first responders. He didn't even do that.

BuT hE mIgHt HaVe ShOt An InNoCeNt ByStAnDeR!

Going in to gather information =/= shooting. Indeed, if someone's shooting at you, staying still and shooting back is rarely going to be the thing that improves your survival chances the most.

[Salandriagado]

The army seems to manage pretty well. Fuck, countries with specialist armed response police forces seem to manage to keep them well trained enough to not do stupid shit like this. All of the available evidence seems to point to you talking out of your fucking arse.

do they train people to stay out in the open *while getting shot at*

No. They also train people to not engage in firefights while surrounded by civilians.

[New haven america]

who was the 2nd shooting victim?

Unconfirmed as of right now, but it is known that the police were responsible for their death.

So yeah, literally everyone that died in this incident was caused by the police.

[Loben The 2nd]

who was the 2nd shooting victim?

Unconfirmed as of right now.

But it is known that the police were responsible for their death.

is the hostage taker also dead?

[New haven america]

Unconfirmed as of right now.

But it is known that the police were responsible for their death.

is the hostage taker also dead?

Yes, as was the hostage.

Literally every death that happened in this incident was caused by the police.

[Fartsniffage]

The army seems to manage pretty well. Fuck, countries with specialist armed response police forces seem to manage to keep them well trained enough to not do stupid shit like this. All of the available evidence seems to point to you talking out of your fucking arse.

do they train people to stay out in the open *while getting shot at*

They do train soldiers to withdraw if civilians are in danger of being caught in the crossfire. At least for the ROE in Iraq and Afghanistan in the UK.

[New haven america]

do they train people to stay out in the open *while getting shot at*

They do train soldiers to withdraw if civilians are in danger of being caught in the crossfire. At least for the ROE in Iraq and Afghanistan in the UK.

And it's even a war crime to use civilians as cover or continue the fire fight in heavily populated areas unless absolutely necessary.

[The Two Jerseys]

1. AR-15's are easier to control, and aim. Arguably making them better for police use, however they take time to get ready. Not to mention criminals can get automatic weapons if they so choose, who in the actual fuck is going to want to use a hand gun vs. something like an AK. Also saying let the special units handle it isn't a good response because it takes time for them to get there, and most of the time, time isn't on the officers side.
2. Anti-police stigma really started to rise during the Obama administration, you know the time where police killers were on a rise? Which in turn caused police to be more jumpy? What would really help is positive reinforcement to the officers who actually do something good, which unfortunately doesn't nearly get as much media time as cops who don't.
3. Why no? Generalizing a bunch of people isn't something to be proud of, it just comes off as arrogant and snotty.

1. Because it generally not the polices job to handle people like in the hypothetical you're providing? That's the job for special firearm units and the National Guard, but definitely not for any random policeman unless absolutely necessary.
2. Fucking what are you on? Have you never listened to a Wu-Tang Clan, NWA, or Tupac song? Hint: Lotta them are about police brutality, and were made in the 80's and 90's.
3. No.

"All units. all units, active shooter reported at Adorable Puppies and Rainbows High School."

Police chief: "I'll call the Governor and ask him to mobilize the National Guard, they should be on scene by tomorrow morning!"

[Loben The 2nd]

is the hostage taker also dead?

Yes, as was the hostage.

Literally every death that happened in this incident was caused by the police.

so thats 3 people dead.

[Torrocca]

Literally three of the most important rules to gun safety is to know what the fuck you're shooting at and what's within your line of fire and to shoot in a safe direction only.

These uniformed chucklefucks that killed those two innocent people are quite literally worse than the robbers.

[Loben The 2nd]

They do train soldiers to withdraw if civilians are in danger of being caught in the crossfire. At least for the ROE in Iraq and Afghanistan in the UK.

And it's even a war crime to use civilians as cover or continue the fire fight in heavily populated areas unless absolutely necessary.

Do war crimes even apply here?

[Loben The 2nd]

Literally three of the most important rules to gun safety is to know what the fuck you're shooting at and what's within your line of fire and to shoot in a safe direction only.

These uniformed chucklefucks that killed those two innocent people are quite literally worse than the robbers.

do tell more.

[Fartsniffage]

And it's even a war crime to use civilians as cover or continue the fire fight in heavily populated areas unless absolutely necessary.

Do war crimes even apply here?

It depends. Was one of the thieves cocaine or poor?

[The Two Jerseys]

BuT hE mIgHt HaVe ShOt An InNoCeNt ByStAnDeR!

This is just furthering the point that you didn't watch the video.

The only people who got shot were those killed by the cops. Again, your argument is stupidly misinformed and ignorant.

Ah, so it's okay for criminals to recklessly fire a gun at a crowd of people as long as they don't kill anyone.

Again, your argument is stupidly misinformed and ignorant.

[Loben The 2nd]

Do war crimes even apply here?

It depends. Was one of the thieves cocaine or poor?

he mustve been high on something if he thought shooting at cops was a grand idea.

also i had a sensible chuckle, thank you.

[Satuga]

1. Because it generally not the polices job to handle people like in the hypothetical you're providing? That's the job for special firearm units and the National Guard, but definitely not for any random policeman unless absolutely necessary.
2. Fucking what are you on? Have you never listened to a Wu-Tang Clan, NWA, or Tupac song? Hint: Lotta them are about police brutality, and were made in the 80's and 90's.
3. No.

1. Oh really? It's not as common as I think? All of these are about those kinds of situations.

http://www.ora.tv/newsbreaker/2013/5/7/graphic-video-suicide-cop-man-ak-47-opens-police-begs-kill-1_youhpjbkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nLYa2T02fc
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-14/riverside-chp-shooting-ar15-weapon

I'm only gonna list three because I don't feel like looking for more, but there is 1 more that comes to mind that I can't remember, which is the vet shooting and killing the poor new officer in the eye and chest killing him, with a heavy weapon. So no it isn't as rare as you might think.
2. Yes because the music videos about police brutality are going to make the cops much more jumpy than a sling of cop killers /s
3. Yes.

[Torrocca]

This is just furthering the point that you didn't watch the video.

The only people who got shot were those killed by the cops. Again, your argument is stupidly misinformed and ignorant.

Ah, so it's okay for criminals to recklessly fire a gun at a crowd of people as long as they don't kill anyone.

Again, your argument is stupidly misinformed and ignorant.

The irony's palpable.

[Fartsniffage]

It depends. Was one of the thieves cocaine or poor?

he mustve been high on something if he thought shooting at cops was a grand idea.

Not "on cocaine" were they actual cocaine? Could also have been weed, heroin, or crack.

[Loben The 2nd]

Ah, so it's okay for criminals to recklessly fire a gun at a crowd of people as long as they don't kill anyone.

Again, your argument is stupidly misinformed and ignorant.

The irony's palpable.

where is the Irony?

that as your ideological bent dictates that cops are inherently criminals and here they were just shooting with apparent reckless abandon?

[New haven america]

This is just furthering the point that you didn't watch the video.

The only people who got shot were those killed by the cops. Again, your argument is stupidly misinformed and ignorant.

1. Ah, so it's okay for criminals to recklessly fire a gun at a crowd of people as long as they don't kill anyone.

2. Again, your argument is stupidly misinformed and ignorant.

1. Thank you, again, for proving your argument's ignorance. You're making this too damn easy.
2. Is No U really the best you could come up with? Come on, use the thinky box, I'm sure you could come up with something slightly more original.

[Loben The 2nd]

he mustve been high on something if he thought shooting at cops was a grand idea.

Not "on cocaine" were they actual cocaine? Could also have been weed, heroin, or crack.

they couldve been poor.

[Volinovia]

So the facts are this. The Police Chased a UPS Van with a hostage in it for 24 miles during 5pm traffic. The drivers of the van were involved in a robbery of a jewelry store where they shot at the owner and injured an employee. The pursuit ended at a packed intersection when the suspects shot at the officers, deputies, and troopers. To which they returned fire and killed both of the suspects, and possibly two other people. Being the hostage and the other civilian. (to my current knowledge those are the only deaths.)

I do not see a problem with the officers conduct here. This situation is not perfect in any way, size, shape, or form. The officers had no choice but to eliminate the threat right then and there and they did it in a way that probably saved a lot of people's lives. And about the police being militarized, you realize they get a discount on that stuff from the DOD. And armored vehicles for S.W.A.T are not the only usage for bearcat armored vehicles. Have you seen the videos of bearcats going onto flooded streets to help evac people?

And about patrol officers having access to long rifles and shotguns. They need those. Nothing you say will change that. Criminals have guns, some criminals have bigger guns than others. It is never a good situation when a human has to kill another human but it is a situation that happens far too often. The South LA shooting is what started all of this. When two madmen with AK-47s, (which may have been RPKs) went into a bank w/ armored piercing rounds and shot the bank up. Then they left the bank and were taken out by a LAPD S.W.A.T team. But only after they had injured a lot of people. The officers that responded to the scene had nothing that could stop them or hurt them in any way. Is that what you want? Cops to roll up to a scene and be able to do literally nothing against a person with superior firepower except die? I understand your argument comes from a perspective of concern, it concerns me too that the government fields this type of firepower. But you must understand that without this firepower more lives would be lost.

[Salus Maior]

How is America going to deal with this threat they face from their own law enforcement officers? My position remains, as it has long been, that the police should be disarmed. Ordinary cops do not need guns. Situations requiring an armed response can be handled by dedicated firearms units. Such units would have strictly limited duties and could thus receive highly specialised training. But what say you, leavened and unleavened masses of NSG?

In America they bloody do.

Guns are not going to disappear from American culture one way or another. And so long as that's the case, there needs to be a counter to that.

Obviously, there needs to be a heightening of standards for the police, but unless you want to make them completely useless disarming them is undesirable.

[Fartsniffage]

Not "on cocaine" were they actual cocaine? Could also have been weed, heroin, or crack.

they couldve been poor.

Then yes, war crimes are applicable since the US has declared war on drugs and poverty.