Police Fire At Hostage & Use Human Shields

[The Two Jerseys]

They were literally in the same room of the house, probably like 10 ft apart at most.

And she didn't have a partner while responding to the incident? What the actual fuck?

Check out Donut Operator's YouTube if you want to see the body cam footage, I don't want to post the link here since it might not be kosher.

Long story short, she thought she was gonna walk in there like John Wayne and the bad guy would just start shaking in his boots, but she was wrong.

[Salandriagado]

And then replaced with what exactly? Vigilantes, private security forces, nothing at all? Because all of those would be far worse than simply working to reform the police force.


Which is why you should not be a cop. If someone has a hostage just opening fire is one of the worst ways to handle the situation.

so ur saying lets just not defend ourselves and just die

Getting into a firefight massively increases the chance of them dying over just withdrawing.

[Satuga]

All policemen should be upgraded.

They should at all times (even when conducting simple investigation and patrols) wear face-covering SF-looking helmets, bullet proof vests, and carry assault rifles (pistol side arm).

They should always travel in teams of 3+ and have on them radios which will allow for reinforcements to get there ASAP. If facing sufficient resistance, they should be able to have access to and be able to call drone strikes.

This is because America has become too dangerous. It is always necessary for the police to be several steps up above the weaponry level of criminals. This is for the purpose of law and order.

No offense IM but i've seen your stance about government authoritarianism, so i'm gonna go ahead and say you are not the person anyone should look to for social advice on these matters.

[Salandriagado]

What the actual fuck is wrong with you people thinking the police should be punished for doing their God damn job? Do you think, what, that any armed and dangerous criminal should be allowed to get away scot-free just because they have an hostage? If we did that hostage-taking would be the new national fucking pass time. It's a tragedy the UPS driver was killer of course, but it's not the fault of the police. Those robbers were a threat to public safety, which means the police had every right to engage and neutralize that threat - especially after the pricks started shooting at the cops. The fact it took place on a crowded freeway is also a tragedy, but again that isn't the police's fault.

Armed & dangerous suspects had robbed a jewelry store and were escaping with a hostage, police pursued - as they are fucking supposed to - and were fired open. They returned fire - as they are fucking supposed to - and unfortunately an innocent man was killed in the crossfire. It's a tragedy it ended this way, but it could have ended up much fucking worse if the thugs had been allowed to escape and you're in complete fucking denial if you actually believe otherwise. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the police avoiding violence at every turn will somehow make things better.

Anyone with a hard-on for police hatred is just as much of an ignoramus as anyone with a hard-on for militarizing the police. Both of these extreme positions are fucking stupid and detrimental to any debate regarding law enforcement. The fact of the matter here is that the police did what they are paid to do. It didn't turn out perfect, but this isn't fucking TV. This is how it works sometimes. Sometimes you don't get the best ending with puppies, rainbows, and giggling babies. Sometimes innocent people fucking die. It's not pretty, but that's life.

The police did their job. It's not a happy ending, but it can't always be. Get the fuck over it.

The job of the police is to protect the innocent. Not shoot them. These officers did not do their job: they behaved recklessly and engaged in actions that directly lead to an innocent person dying.

[The Two Jerseys]

What the actual fuck is wrong with you people thinking the police should be punished for doing their God damn job? Do you think, what, that any armed and dangerous criminal should be allowed to get away scot-free just because they have an hostage? If we did that hostage-taking would be the new national fucking pass time. It's a tragedy the UPS driver was killer of course, but it's not the fault of the police. Those robbers were a threat to public safety, which means the police had every right to engage and neutralize that threat - especially after the pricks started shooting at the cops. The fact it took place on a crowded freeway is also a tragedy, but again that isn't the police's fault.

Armed & dangerous suspects had robbed a jewelry store and were escaping with a hostage, police pursued - as they are fucking supposed to - and were fired open. They returned fire - as they are fucking supposed to - and unfortunately an innocent man was killed in the crossfire. It's a tragedy it ended this way, but it could have ended up much fucking worse if the thugs had been allowed to escape and you're in complete fucking denial if you actually believe otherwise. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the police avoiding violence at every turn will somehow make things better.

Anyone with a hard-on for police hatred is just as much of an ignoramus as anyone with a hard-on for militarizing the police. Both of these extreme positions are fucking stupid and detrimental to any debate regarding law enforcement. The fact of the matter here is that the police did what they are paid to do. It didn't turn out perfect, but this isn't fucking TV. This is how it works sometimes. Sometimes you don't get the best ending with puppies, rainbows, and giggling babies. Sometimes innocent people fucking die. It's not pretty, but that's life.

The police did their job. It's not a happy ending, but it can't always be. Get the fuck over it.

Today I learned that it's in the "Protect and Serve" gang's modus operandi to wantonly and recklessly endanger/injure/kill as many innocent civilians as physically possible.

Today I learned that the police are just supposed to run away and hide when criminals lead a high-speed chase and start recklessly shooting on a crowded roadway.

[Torrocca]

"Liberty for me, none for thee," as they say.

And then they figure out too late that they're part of the "Thee" camp.

Then there will be no end of the shocked Pikachu face.

At least there'll be some enjoyable schadenfreude coming out from those people being kicked in the face by the boots that they love the most.

What the actual fuck is wrong with you people thinking the police should be punished for doing their God damn job? Do you think, what, that any armed and dangerous criminal should be allowed to get away scot-free just because they have an hostage? If we did that hostage-taking would be the new national fucking pass time. It's a tragedy the UPS driver was killer of course, but it's not the fault of the police. Those robbers were a threat to public safety, which means the police had every right to engage and neutralize that threat - especially after the pricks started shooting at the cops. The fact it took place on a crowded freeway is also a tragedy, but again that isn't the police's fault.

Armed & dangerous suspects had robbed a jewelry store and were escaping with a hostage, police pursued - as they are fucking supposed to - and were fired open. They returned fire - as they are fucking supposed to - and unfortunately an innocent man was killed in the crossfire. It's a tragedy it ended this way, but it could have ended up much fucking worse if the thugs had been allowed to escape and you're in complete fucking denial if you actually believe otherwise. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the police avoiding violence at every turn will somehow make things better.

Anyone with a hard-on for police hatred is just as much of an ignoramus as anyone with a hard-on for militarizing the police. Both of these extreme positions are fucking stupid and detrimental to any debate regarding law enforcement. The fact of the matter here is that the police did what they are paid to do. It didn't turn out perfect, but this isn't fucking TV. This is how it works sometimes. Sometimes you don't get the best ending with puppies, rainbows, and giggling babies. Sometimes innocent people fucking die. It's not pretty, but that's life.

The police did their job. It's not a happy ending, but it can't always be. Get the fuck over it.

The job of the police is to protect the innocent. Not shoot them. These officers did not do their job: they behaved recklessly and engaged in actions that directly lead to an innocent person dying.

Two innocent people dying, actually.

[The New California Republic]

They should at all times (even when conducting simple investigation and patrols) wear face-covering SF-looking helmets, bullet proof vests, and carry assault rifles (pistol side arm).

What a complete crock of shit. We're not turning this into some complete dystopian totalitarian nightmare.

If facing sufficiently lethal resistance, they should be able to have access to and be able to call limited and tactical drone strikes.

Fuck that shit. We aren't giving the police access to air strikes. What a load of nonsense.

[Krasny-Volny]

Yeah, there was a lot about that incident that didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

Isn't it a rule or code in the police departments that when responding to a violent incident that you are supposed to have a partner with you in case of any major problems such as this one? If so that officer is totally in the wrong and should have their job stripped and since she apparently did hit that poor woman also any repercussions for that.

It escalated into a violent incident but didn’t start out as one. My local news made it out like the initial call was for public intoxication.

[New haven america]

It's interesting that the right-wing users who claim to love personal freedom and liberty are now under the belief that the police should be militarized and treat the public as if they're enemies of the state.

1. Im a right-wing user, who also loves personal freedom and liberty, I don't think they should be completely militarized but I do think they should have AR-15's, handguns, and ballistics vest. 2. I also know they should definitely be getting proper training, and more of it than what they do now(in certain areas at least) I know as well that public relations haven't been the best and that is part due to the anti-police stigma, and that cops don't socialize with the community they protect as much as they used to. 3. Try not to generalize people so hard.

1. Handguns? Sure. AR-15s? No. Heavy weaponry should be special firearm units and the National Guard. You know, the people who are specifically trained to handle deadly situations like the one in the OP?
2. The reason that the anti-police stigma exists is because cops are being taught that any member of the public unless sedated or taken down is a threat to their security, which causes the police to distrust the public and make their lives harder, which leads to the growing public distrust of the police. It's positive feedback loop that the police are causing.
3. No.

[Salandriagado]

There are books that tell you how to do it. All about knot position and drop. All you need is the weight and height of the person.

A .30-06 round only costs 75 cents at most just saying.

But massively fucks up the person doing the executing for no benefit.

[Torrocca]

Today I learned that it's in the "Protect and Serve" gang's modus operandi to wantonly and recklessly endanger/injure/kill as many innocent civilians as physically possible.

Today I learned that the police are just supposed to run away and hide when criminals lead a high-speed chase and start recklessly shooting on a crowded roadway.

I love how you managed to miss the point this hard simply so you could defend the fact that a cluster of cops mowed down two innocent civilians simply because they wanted to act like vicious, gung-ho motherfuckers.

[Salandriagado]

Ifreann strawmans pretty hard and I think we all know it by now

I'm personally just shocked by how many times we get to hear "disarm police" because of situations where armed units would have been involved anyway.

That's the fucking point. The point is to concentrate the weapons in the hands of a smaller group of highly-trained police officers, so that random half-trained fuckwits aren't placed in those situations.

[New haven america]

Today I learned that it's in the "Protect and Serve" gang's modus operandi to wantonly and recklessly endanger/injure/kill as many innocent civilians as physically possible.

Today I learned that the police are just supposed to run away and hide when criminals lead a high-speed chase and start recklessly shooting on a crowded roadway.

No, they're not supposed to run away.

They're supposed to protect and serve the public, and in this case that would mean tactically retreating and waiting for more specially trained units to come in and handle the situation.

[The Two Jerseys]

Isn't it a rule or code in the police departments that when responding to a violent incident that you are supposed to have a partner with you in case of any major problems such as this one? If so that officer is totally in the wrong and should have their job stripped and since she apparently did hit that poor woman also any repercussions for that.

It escalated into a violent incident but didn’t start out as one. My local news made it out like the initial call was for public intoxication.

I think it was a shoplifting report, then when she saw the surveillance footage she recognized the suspect from a previous domestic incident call and figured "I'll just pop over to his house and haul his drunk ass in, how hard can it be?".

[Krasny-Volny]

A .30-06 round only costs 75 cents at most just saying.

But massively fucks up the person doing the executing for no benefit.

Firing squad means all the squad but one are firing blanks. The guy with the live round has no idea, it’s completely randomized who gets it. Consequently none of them have any idea which of the squad fired the lethal round, and can absolve themselves of any personal responsibility for ending a prisoner’s life.

[The Two Jerseys]

Today I learned that the police are just supposed to run away and hide when criminals lead a high-speed chase and start recklessly shooting on a crowded roadway.

I love how you managed to miss the point this hard simply so you could defend the fact that a cluster of cops mowed down two innocent civilians simply because they wanted to act like vicious, gung-ho motherfuckers.

I love how you managed to ignore the facts so hard simply so you could get off on your "fuck da pigs!" fetish.

[Torrocca]

1. Im a right-wing user, who also loves personal freedom and liberty, I don't think they should be completely militarized but I do think they should have AR-15's, handguns, and ballistics vest. 2. I also know they should definitely be getting proper training, and more of it than what they do now(in certain areas at least) I know as well that public relations haven't been the best and that is part due to the anti-police stigma, and that cops don't socialize with the community they protect as much as they used to. 3. Try not to generalize people so hard.

1. Handguns? Sure. AR-15s? No. Heavy weaponry should be special firearm units and the National Guard. You know, the people who are specifically trained to handle deadly situations like the one in the OP?
2. The reason that the anti-police stigma exists is because cops are being taught that any member of the public unless sedated or taken down is a threat to their security, which causes the police to distrust the public and make their lives harder, which leads to the growing public distrust of the police. It's positive feedback loop that the police are causing.
3. No.

Hell, even people who are sedated or taken down get the same treatment, with obviously horrific results.

I'm personally just shocked by how many times we get to hear "disarm police" because of situations where armed units would have been involved anyway.

That's the fucking point. The point is to concentrate the weapons in the hands of a smaller group of highly-trained police officers, so that random half-trained fuckwits aren't placed in those situations.

Nah, good ol' Corporal Johnny Dumbfuck with his love for applying the boot to people on a whim and his less than two minutes of firearm training and all his dumbfuck cadre from five different agencies were all totally right to recklessly and savagely fire over two hundred rounds of ammunition in less than two seconds toward a roadway slam-packed full of innocent bystanders while also using even more innocent bystanders as cover. /s

[Salandriagado]

But massively fucks up the person doing the executing for no benefit.

Firing squad means all the squad but one are firing blanks. The guy with the live round has no idea, it’s completely randomized who gets it. Consequently none of them have any idea which of the squad fired the lethal round, and can absolve themselves of any personal responsibility for ending a prisoner’s life.

Yeah, that doesn't actually work. Indeed, none of the various methods proposed for reducing how much the process fucks up the executioners actually fix the problem.

And, again, this is all for literally no benefit.

[Loben The 2nd]

A .30-06 round only costs 75 cents at most just saying.

But massively fucks up the person doing the executing for no benefit.

could always get a lifer to do it, those guys are dead anyways.

[Torrocca]

I love how you managed to miss the point this hard simply so you could defend the fact that a cluster of cops mowed down two innocent civilians simply because they wanted to act like vicious, gung-ho motherfuckers.

I love how you managed to ignore the facts so hard simply so you could get off on your "fuck da pigs!" fetish.

I've watched the fucking videos, champ. The facts are that the cops acted like utterly reckless, irredeemable dumbfucks and senselessly shot at a fuckton of innocent people. There's a good fucking reason two innocent people are dead.

[Fartsniffage]

But massively fucks up the person doing the executing for no benefit.

Firing squad means all the squad but one are firing blanks. The guy with the live round has no idea, it’s completely randomized who gets it. Consequently none of them have any idea which of the squad fired the lethal round, and can absolve themselves of any personal responsibility for ending a prisoner’s life.

You ever fired a blank round? A shooter would know the difference.

[The Two Jerseys]

Today I learned that the police are just supposed to run away and hide when criminals lead a high-speed chase and start recklessly shooting on a crowded roadway.

No, they're not supposed to run away.

They're supposed to protect and serve the public, and in this case that would mean tactically retreating and waiting for more specially trained units to come in and handle the situation.

Wait for other units to come and deal with the criminals who led the police on a high speed chase and started shooting wildly on a crowded freeway.

Guess everyone who roasted that deputy for waiting outside the school during the shooting owes him an apology now...

[The Two Jerseys]

I love how you managed to ignore the facts so hard simply so you could get off on your "fuck da pigs!" fetish.

I've watched the fucking videos, champ. The facts are that the cops acted like utterly reckless, irredeemable dumbfucks and senselessly shot at a fuckton of innocent people. There's a good fucking reason two innocent people are dead.

The facts are that the criminals started shooting recklessly, forcing the police to return fire.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Well, the video footage here shows that the police do indeed use occupied vehicles as moving cover.

Aha! Thanks! So that claim is correct. Though since they're taking cover at the back of the SUV, it's not clear that could in any way be counted as using people as human shields, though.

The helicopter footage does already prove that the truck driver was indeed abducted so the police were certainly aware of the existence of the hostage.

It does? I'm not seeing it. Could you say about when in the video that becomes clear?

According to Coral Gables Chief Edward Hudak, "The individuals abducted the driver of the truck as well as the truck itself".
[...]
According to the police, they identified the crime as a hijacking so they were aware of the presence of a hostage.

The timing on the first isn't clear relative to the chase, and it's certainly possible to hijack a land vehicle without taking the driver hostage, like ordering them out at gunpoint.. Much harder in an airplane or ship, though.

[Satuga]

1. Im a right-wing user, who also loves personal freedom and liberty, I don't think they should be completely militarized but I do think they should have AR-15's, handguns, and ballistics vest. 2. I also know they should definitely be getting proper training, and more of it than what they do now(in certain areas at least) I know as well that public relations haven't been the best and that is part due to the anti-police stigma, and that cops don't socialize with the community they protect as much as they used to. 3. Try not to generalize people so hard.

1. Handguns? Sure. AR-15s? No. Heavy weaponry should be special firearm units and the National Guard. You know, the people who are specifically trained to handle deadly situations like the one in the OP?
2. The reason that the anti-police stigma exists is because cops are being taught that any member of the public unless sedated or taken down is a threat to their security, which causes the police to distrust the public and make their lives harder, which leads to the growing public distrust of the police. It's positive feedback loop that the police are causing.
3. No.

1. AR-15's are easier to control, and aim. Arguably making them better for police use, however they take time to get ready. Not to mention criminals can get automatic weapons if they so choose, who in the actual fuck is going to want to use a hand gun vs. something like an AK. Also saying let the special units handle it isn't a good response because it takes time for them to get there, and most of the time, time isn't on the officers side.
2. Anti-police stigma really started to rise during the Obama administration, you know the time where police killers were on a rise? Which in turn caused police to be more jumpy? What would really help is positive reinforcement to the officers who actually do something good, which unfortunately doesn't nearly get as much media time as cops who don't.
3. Why no? Generalizing a bunch of people isn't something to be proud of, it just comes off as arrogant and snotty.