Illinois City Creates Reparations Programme

[Satuga]

-snip-

That first part is responding to you saying "Speaking is an action" not the second part.


THIS is the response to that second part:

Okay so then why is it an argument that only America should pay?

Go find someone who made that argument and ask them.

Were about to go back in a circle but whatever, the whole point of me asking you for "proof" was that searching for someone who made that argument would be irrelevant because it's the lack of opposing arguments of it rather than people stating that only America should be paying, that show this is somehow a American exclusive problem.

[Lamoni]

Oh wait this is real? I legitimately thought it was The Onion when it popped up in my newsfeed…

Race itself is a stupid concept, so why give benefits to a single race when you can give benefits to everyone below a certain income? Content of character matter more than the color of your skin

You do it to reverse centuries of racist discrimination, and it doesn't have to preclude giving welfare to the poor.

---

Resources then.

Of course it doesn't, because nothing can. That's the whole point.

That's just obviously false.

So it's just welfare/class mobility with extra steps. Why not just all it a social project and leave out the politics and segregation?

Because trying to reverse centuries of discrimination against black people in secret would just be silly.

So perhaps it would be good to campaign for equal welfare policies and supporting other minority groups rather than just making it a colour thing.

Different people need different sorts of help. The steps we take to achieve racial equality won't necessarily be the same as the steps we take to achieve equality for LGBT+ people, for example.

And calling it reparations, insinuating that it's white people and/or the government repenting for past sins regardless of whether the person recieving the money/support has any family link to slavery or not.

You can infer whatever you want from the terminology.

---

If you help all poor people, you will by extension help poor black people. Why is it that when we talk about helping everyone, people get mad and start acting all selfish like only their group deserves help?

I don't know, so far as I can tell nobody is doing that.

---

By this retarded logic, you owe me money because I'm traumatized by some riots that happened in the 1840s.

The Spanish American war got me shook. Give me money

Danes owe me money since they spent years pillaging and stealing from Iceland, where are my reparations?

While we're at it, let's make Italy pay for Rome's sins and Turkey to pay for the Ottoman Empire's sins....

Lord knows both those groups have hurt a lot of people over the centuries.

Are ye all fucking illiterate or something?

A 3% sales tax on marijuana, which will be legal here in Illinois at the start of the year, is going to fund a reparations programme...

Opening post of the thread.

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Blacks are not disenfranchised.

Pay no attention to the disproportionately black felons who are disenfranchised.

---

They are better off than they would have been had bad historical event X not happened.

Unverifiable speculation that is still apparently irrelevant.

Are you also in favour of forcing the wealthy nation of Japan to give the middle class nation of Korea reparations? Are you in favour of forcing wealthy Germany to submit to middle class Poland's demand of 1 trillion dollars for historical reparations?

Are you also unaware, despite this being explained in the opening post of the thread, that this programme is being funded by a sales tax on marijuana? No one is being made to answer for the crimes of generations past or anything like that. A government is raising funds to help people in their jurisdiction. Which is only right and proper. "B-but what about this other bad thing in the past?!" So fix that too. Fix all the bad things, that would be great. Were you waiting on my permission?

*** Warning for Flaming ***
You DO NOT get to call other players illiterate, or to insult them.

[Ifreann]

-snip-

That first part is responding to you saying "Speaking is an action" not the second part.

Maybe do something to indicate that.

---

You DO NOT get to call other players illiterate, or to insult them.

I'll keep that in mind.

[Satuga]

That first part is responding to you saying "Speaking is an action" not the second part.

Maybe do something to indicate that.

---

You DO NOT get to call other players illiterate, or to insult them.

I'll keep that in mind.

I thought the separation between them would have made it obvious

Not to mention, I used these format to convey different points multiple times and there wasn't a problem then, so why was there that time?

[Estanglia]

Can't we just help all poor people? Or, if it's based on whether or not that person's family suffered greatly in the past, leaving them poor in the modern day, open it to everyone whose families suffered greatly in the past?

It seems the "black only" is somewhat counterproductive if the goal is to help people on the basis of something other than them being black, considering you'll cut out people who'd otherwise qualify but aren't black and include people who don't need help but get access to it because they're black.

I don't particularly oppose this scheme, though. Helping people is a good thing.

There are a myriad of federal, state, and municipal welfare programs serving African Americans in Illinois City.

Not directed at you, but to reiterate why reparations are insane and awful:

1. No monetary reward can rectify slavery
2. No one alive experienced slavery
3. Tracing ancestry would be impossible to verify on a large scale
4. No one alive owned slaves
5. The ancestors of the very people that died to free slaves would be paying in part the reparations

Absolutely agree with point 1. Which is why Ta-Nahisi Coate's proposal for electoral reparations appeals to me: all African-Americans are automatically eligible to vote after turning 18, no registration needed, no bogus disenfranchisement for involvement with the legal system,

I'd support that but for everyone.

and their votes all count for 5/3 of a vote.

No.

[West Leas Oros 2]

There are a myriad of federal, state, and municipal welfare programs serving African Americans in Illinois City.

Not directed at you, but to reiterate why reparations are insane and awful:

1. No monetary reward can rectify slavery
2. No one alive experienced slavery
3. Tracing ancestry would be impossible to verify on a large scale
4. No one alive owned slaves
5. The ancestors of the very people that died to free slaves would be paying in part the reparations

Absolutely agree with point 1. Which is why Ta-Nahisi Coate's proposal for electoral reparations appeals to me: all African-Americans are automatically eligible to vote after turning 18, no registration needed, no bogus disenfranchisement for involvement with the legal system, and their votes all count for 5/3 of a vote.

Votes counting for 5/3 of a vote is inherently undemocratic and shouldn't be taken seriously under any circumstance.

[Servilis]

While many are discussing the idea of reparations for racial injustices such as slavery, one Illinois city is actually going ahead with the idea: https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Evanston-recreational-marijuana-sales-tax-revenue-reparations-program-565703322.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-city-pay-reparations-african-144159498.html

With recreational marijuana sales in Illinois set to become legal on Jan. 1., the city of Evanston plans to use sales tax revenue from purchases to help fund a reparations program.

The program will focus on helping the city's black community thrive by fighting the effects of slavery and discrimination while also providing job training and other benefits, said 5th Ward Ald. Robin Rue Simmons.

Although recreational marijuana becomes legal statewide on Jan. 1, it remains unclear when exactly the tax will start being collected. In contrast to Evanston, several other Chicago suburbs have chosen to opt out of recreational marijuana sales.

Ald. Simmons said the city's fund will help address its wealth gap between black and white residents which she estimated at $46,000 per year. An average of $500,000 to $700,000 could be generated yearly, and the fund will be capped at $10 million.

Rev. Michael Nabors, the Evanston NAACP president, said he was pleased with the reparations fund's approval, and hoped the money will go toward improving housing, education and employment for the city's black community.

"Our children and our young people who are African American can really learn high tech, high wage, high skill jobs that's going to result in them being able to take care of themselves," he said.

Ald. Simmons said several other cities have inquired about Evanston's reparations program.

"It'll help improve the black life experience, the black community, the historically black neighborhood, and ultimately that will help strengthen our entire community," she said.

A town hall will take place on Dec. 11 for those hoping to learn more information about the details of the program.

A 3% sales tax on marijuana, which will be legal here in Illinois at the start of the year, is going to fund a reparations programme to the tune $500-700,000 a year to be capped at $10 million. It will be available to all black residents of Evanston whether they can prove they had enslaved ancestors or not, and it will go to things like funding job training or down payments on houses. There's going to be a press conference next week to discuss the plan in detail.

So, NSG, knowing that I walk open-eyed into a fiery discussion indeed, what's your take on Evanston's reparations plan?

I personally am in favour of reparations, though I do understand why some have reservations(not all blacks or whites in this country had ancestors here at the time, for instance). This will do a lot to give black people in the city more opportunities than what might otherwise have been available due to systemic racism.

Honestly, everyone, whom had been charged with drug offenses, whether their charges were true or not, should receive reparations.

[West Leas Oros 2]

While many are discussing the idea of reparations for racial injustices such as slavery, one Illinois city is actually going ahead with the idea: https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Evanston-recreational-marijuana-sales-tax-revenue-reparations-program-565703322.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-city-pay-reparations-african-144159498.html

With recreational marijuana sales in Illinois set to become legal on Jan. 1., the city of Evanston plans to use sales tax revenue from purchases to help fund a reparations program.

The program will focus on helping the city's black community thrive by fighting the effects of slavery and discrimination while also providing job training and other benefits, said 5th Ward Ald. Robin Rue Simmons.

Although recreational marijuana becomes legal statewide on Jan. 1, it remains unclear when exactly the tax will start being collected. In contrast to Evanston, several other Chicago suburbs have chosen to opt out of recreational marijuana sales.

Ald. Simmons said the city's fund will help address its wealth gap between black and white residents which she estimated at $46,000 per year. An average of $500,000 to $700,000 could be generated yearly, and the fund will be capped at $10 million.

Rev. Michael Nabors, the Evanston NAACP president, said he was pleased with the reparations fund's approval, and hoped the money will go toward improving housing, education and employment for the city's black community.

"Our children and our young people who are African American can really learn high tech, high wage, high skill jobs that's going to result in them being able to take care of themselves," he said.

Ald. Simmons said several other cities have inquired about Evanston's reparations program.

"It'll help improve the black life experience, the black community, the historically black neighborhood, and ultimately that will help strengthen our entire community," she said.

A town hall will take place on Dec. 11 for those hoping to learn more information about the details of the program.

A 3% sales tax on marijuana, which will be legal here in Illinois at the start of the year, is going to fund a reparations programme to the tune $500-700,000 a year to be capped at $10 million. It will be available to all black residents of Evanston whether they can prove they had enslaved ancestors or not, and it will go to things like funding job training or down payments on houses. There's going to be a press conference next week to discuss the plan in detail.

So, NSG, knowing that I walk open-eyed into a fiery discussion indeed, what's your take on Evanston's reparations plan?

I personally am in favour of reparations, though I do understand why some have reservations(not all blacks or whites in this country had ancestors here at the time, for instance). This will do a lot to give black people in the city more opportunities than what might otherwise have been available due to systemic racism.

Honestly, everyone, whom had been charged with drug offenses, whether their charges were true or not, should receive reparations.

What do you mean by "drug offense"? Possession I understand, but if someone is openly distributing drugs, I see no reason to give them reparations.

[Ifreann]

Can't we just help all poor people? Or, if it's based on whether or not that person's family suffered greatly in the past, leaving them poor in the modern day, open it to everyone whose families suffered greatly in the past?

It seems the "black only" is somewhat counterproductive if the goal is to help people on the basis of something other than them being black, considering you'll cut out people who'd otherwise qualify but aren't black and include people who don't need help but get access to it because they're black.

I don't particularly oppose this scheme, though. Helping people is a good thing.

I'll ask you what I've been asking I don't know how many other people in this thread. How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against black people without ever targeting assistance to black people? Abolishing slavery doesn't repair the harms done by slavery. Enfranchising black Americans doesn't repair the harms done by disenfranchising them. Ending desegregation doesn't repair the harms done by segregation, and doesn't desegregate schools or communities.

[Chernoslavia]

Can't we just help all poor people? Or, if it's based on whether or not that person's family suffered greatly in the past, leaving them poor in the modern day, open it to everyone whose families suffered greatly in the past?

It seems the "black only" is somewhat counterproductive if the goal is to help people on the basis of something other than them being black, considering you'll cut out people who'd otherwise qualify but aren't black and include people who don't need help but get access to it because they're black.

I don't particularly oppose this scheme, though. Helping people is a good thing.

I'll ask you what I've been asking I don't know how many other people in this thread. How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against black people without ever targeting assistance to black people? Abolishing slavery doesn't repair the harms done by slavery. Enfranchising black Americans doesn't repair the harms done by disenfranchising them. Ending desegregation doesn't repair the harms done by segregation, and doesn't desegregate schools or communities.

You do it by moving the fuck on.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Can't we just help all poor people? Or, if it's based on whether or not that person's family suffered greatly in the past, leaving them poor in the modern day, open it to everyone whose families suffered greatly in the past?

It seems the "black only" is somewhat counterproductive if the goal is to help people on the basis of something other than them being black, considering you'll cut out people who'd otherwise qualify but aren't black and include people who don't need help but get access to it because they're black.

I don't particularly oppose this scheme, though. Helping people is a good thing.

I'll ask you what I've been asking I don't know how many other people in this thread. How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against black people without ever targeting assistance to black people? Abolishing slavery doesn't repair the harms done by slavery. Enfranchising black Americans doesn't repair the harms done by disenfranchising them. Ending desegregation doesn't repair the harms done by segregation, and doesn't desegregate schools or communities.

And punishing other people doesn't either. If you want to assist black people, then that's all well and good. But "reparations" aren't doing that.

[Gormwood]

I'll ask you what I've been asking I don't know how many other people in this thread. How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against black people without ever targeting assistance to black people? Abolishing slavery doesn't repair the harms done by slavery. Enfranchising black Americans doesn't repair the harms done by disenfranchising them. Ending desegregation doesn't repair the harms done by segregation, and doesn't desegregate schools or communities.

You do it by moving the fuck on.

i.e. pretending it never happened and everything is fine.

[Gormwood]

I'll ask you what I've been asking I don't know how many other people in this thread. How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against black people without ever targeting assistance to black people? Abolishing slavery doesn't repair the harms done by slavery. Enfranchising black Americans doesn't repair the harms done by disenfranchising them. Ending desegregation doesn't repair the harms done by segregation, and doesn't desegregate schools or communities.

And punishing other people doesn't either. If you want to assist black people, then that's all well and good. But "reparations" aren't doing that.

Unless you're libertarian a marijuana tax is hardly punishment. Unless you're implying marijuana is a mostly white product.

[Chernoslavia]

You do it by moving the fuck on.

i.e. pretending it never happened and everything is fine.

Come back when you have a real argument.

[Samadhi]

And punishing other people doesn't either. If you want to assist black people, then that's all well and good. But "reparations" aren't doing that.

Unless you're libertarian a marijuana tax is hardly punishment. Unless you're implying marijuana is a mostly white product.

Making happy plant cost more not bad.

You heard it here folks.

[West Leas Oros 2]

And punishing other people doesn't either. If you want to assist black people, then that's all well and good. But "reparations" aren't doing that.

Unless you're libertarian a marijuana tax is hardly punishment. Unless you're implying marijuana is a mostly white product.

I don't consider this marijuana tax a form of punishment. I don't think what the city is doing is "reparations". They haven't tried to guilt anybody, they aren't blaming people with no connection to the issue, all of those things are common to so-called "reparations".

[Ifreann]

Honestly, everyone, whom had been charged with drug offenses, whether their charges were true or not, should receive reparations.

What do you mean by "drug offense"? Possession I understand, but if someone is openly distributing drugs, I see no reason to give them reparations.

People who were imprisoned for selling weed should get first dibs at opening legal weed dispensaries.

---

I'll ask you what I've been asking I don't know how many other people in this thread. How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against black people without ever targeting assistance to black people? Abolishing slavery doesn't repair the harms done by slavery. Enfranchising black Americans doesn't repair the harms done by disenfranchising them. Ending desegregation doesn't repair the harms done by segregation, and doesn't desegregate schools or communities.

You do it by moving the fuck on.

Moving the fuck on doesn't repair any of those harms either. I don't know about you, chief, but I want an equal society. I want the problems in society to be fixed. And that means we all need to actually do shit to fix it, not because of blame or as a punishment or anything like that, but because we should all help each other.

---

I'll ask you what I've been asking I don't know how many other people in this thread. How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against black people without ever targeting assistance to black people? Abolishing slavery doesn't repair the harms done by slavery. Enfranchising black Americans doesn't repair the harms done by disenfranchising them. Ending desegregation doesn't repair the harms done by segregation, and doesn't desegregate schools or communities.

And punishing other people doesn't either. If you want to assist black people, then that's all well and good. But "reparations" aren't doing that.

A sales tax on the devil's lettuce isn't a punishment.

[West Leas Oros 2]

What do you mean by "drug offense"? Possession I understand, but if someone is openly distributing drugs, I see no reason to give them reparations.

People who were imprisoned for selling weed should get first dibs at opening legal weed dispensaries.

---

You do it by moving the fuck on.

Moving the fuck on doesn't repair any of those harms either. I don't know about you, chief, but I want an equal society. I want the problems in society to be fixed. And that means we all need to actually do shit to fix it, not because of blame or as a punishment or anything like that, but because we should all help each other.

---

And punishing other people doesn't either. If you want to assist black people, then that's all well and good. But "reparations" aren't doing that.

A sales tax on the devil's lettuce isn't a punishment.

You must have missed the part where I argued this tax isn't a punishment. This city isn't doing a "reparations program". They're just being decent people. Also, drug offenses aren't limited to marijuana. I wouldn't argue we should pay reparations to heroin dealers.

[Deacarsia]

This is absurd.

[West Leas Oros 2]

This is absurd.

Not really. Other programs in other cities have done much worse.

[Satuga]

i.e. pretending it never happened and everything is fine.

No you remember history, and strive to never do it again. This is no where near the same as the argument they were making. Moving on doesn't mean forgetting, have you never lost a loved one? You don't just forget them.

[Catsfern]

Im not a fan of the idea of racial reparations, but I have to say if people are going to go about implementing reparation programs this is probably the best way to go about it, It doesn't affect anyone who doesn't make a conscious choice, It's easily available, and it's in theory actually helpful.

[Ifreann]

People who were imprisoned for selling weed should get first dibs at opening legal weed dispensaries.

---

Moving the fuck on doesn't repair any of those harms either. I don't know about you, chief, but I want an equal society. I want the problems in society to be fixed. And that means we all need to actually do shit to fix it, not because of blame or as a punishment or anything like that, but because we should all help each other.

---

A sales tax on the devil's lettuce isn't a punishment.

You must have missed the part where I argued this tax isn't a punishment. This city isn't doing a "reparations program". They're just being decent people. Also, drug offenses aren't limited to marijuana. I wouldn't argue we should pay reparations to heroin dealers.

The city is doing a reparations programme. They describe it as such themselves.

[West Leas Oros 2]

You must have missed the part where I argued this tax isn't a punishment. This city isn't doing a "reparations program". They're just being decent people. Also, drug offenses aren't limited to marijuana. I wouldn't argue we should pay reparations to heroin dealers.

The city is doing a reparations programme. They describe it as such themselves.

Just because they call it that doesn't make it true. They can call it whatever they like. It's not a reparations program because it doesn't act like a reparations program.

[The Emerald Legion]

You do it by moving the fuck on.

i.e. pretending it never happened and everything is fine.

Basically. Yep.

Serious question. You murder me. Does my family in retribution get to murder your entire family? Everyone even vaguely related to you?

No. That's stupid. Noone today was alive during slavery, therefore, it's done and buried.