Illinois City Creates Reparations Programme

[Ifreann]

If you accept that discrimination can happen despite an anti-discrimination law being passed then you accept that an anti-discrimination law being passed does not mean that a society is, by that action alone, equal.

I will assume that you think that equality is a desirable state of affairs. Given that and the above conclusion, the obvious course of action is to actively pursue equality. Or at least, that's how it looks to me.

How can you persue equality when you're supporting one race over another?

How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against one race of people without ever targetting assistance to that race of people?

How do you explain the system to someone if they're new to your society?

They tax weed to fund welfare programmes for black communities to help reverse centuries of discrimination against black people.

[Gormwood]

Maybe something to do with how blacks are historically more likely to be neglected or turned down for things not explicitly meant for them? Whitewashing platitude like All Lives Matter.

If there's a disparity between the impoverish rates between Blacks and Whites then focusing on impoverished people as a whole will still help the Black community the most.

And such program will likely emphasize impoverished whites over blacks.

[Samadhi]

Using an unethical mandate with limited viability to overcome a previous unethical mandate with limited viability.


Oh boy that's some galaxy brain statism.

[Satuga]

It's amusing how people here are all bothered by this when most likely don't live anywhere near Evanston and won't have to pay the marijuana tax to begin with.

It doesn't matter if we live there are not, it is still an issue that should be addressed. Imagine if we continued that thinking for slavery,
North: Eh we don't live there so it doesn't effect us and therefore don't care.

[Gormwood]

It's amusing how people here are all bothered by this when most likely don't live anywhere near Evanston and won't have to pay the marijuana tax to begin with.

It doesn't matter if we live there are not, it is still an issue that should be addressed. Imagine if we continued that thinking for slavery,
North: Eh we don't live there so it doesn't effect us and therefore don't care.

Comparing an assistance program to slavery. That's some Fonzarelli shark jumping.

[Satuga]

And such program will likely emphasize impoverished whites over blacks.

How so, if it is implemented to help the most impoverished it will do exactly that, if it helps whites more then that means there's more white folks impoverished then black folks which is still a win so what's the problem here?

[Satuga]

It doesn't matter if we live there are not, it is still an issue that should be addressed. Imagine if we continued that thinking for slavery,
North: Eh we don't live there so it doesn't effect us and therefore don't care.

Comparing an assistance program to slavery. That's some Fonzarelli shark jumping.

I wasn't comparing the program I was comparing the way of thinking you introduced. Don't try and twist my words.

[North German Realm]

I'm not exactly opposed to reparation for slavery -and doubly for that, I support paying reparations for people arrested for actions that should never have been crimes in the first place, selling or possessing marijuana being a prime example- but I wasn't aware that the State of Illinois had enshrined the institution of slavery in its constitution.

[Ifreann]

Taking action to undo the harms caused by centuries of discrimination against black people does not mean regarding black people as special. It just means acknowledging history.

Should I as a Brit expect to have a cheque through the post from Italians, Norwegians or Danes?

This programme is being funded by a sales tax on marijuana.

---

If you accept that discrimination can happen despite an anti-discrimination law being passed then you accept that an anti-discrimination law being passed does not mean that a society is, by that action alone, equal.

I will assume that you think that equality is a desirable state of affairs. Given that and the above conclusion, the obvious course of action is to actively pursue equality. Or at least, that's how it looks to me.


I am engaged in the conversation about the programme in Evanston, Illinois. You seem to be having a conversation about how unfair it is to the US that this forum full of Americans keeps talking about American politics, and I don't know who you think you are having that conversation with, but it isn't me.

Of course society will never be 100% equal because humans aren't a fucking hive-mind. People form their own biases, personalities, and judgement. This will never be fixed because we're humans not insects.

An equal society isn't one in which everyone has the same thoughts. I care about the actions people take and the material conditions of their lives, not the contents of their minds.

Yes we should pursue equality because it will make our lives as humans better, but to think that everyone will have the same thoughts on the matter is ignorant.

No one cares about what thoughts other people have, except presumably you.

Wow you wanna cut that bull shit back a little? I have given more than just arguments that America...

I don't know how to be more clear to you. I am not interested in whatever the fuck "What about other countries?" conversation you are having here. I do not care, but you keep acting like I am attacking America or something. I'm just talking about the topic of this thread. I am responding to points you raise relevant to this thread. I am not going to defend a position that I do not support just because you have attributed it to me.

[SD_Film Artists]

How can you persue equality when you're supporting one race over another?

How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against one race of people without ever targetting assistance to that race of people?

No amount of money is going to reverse that, just as no amount of money is going to reverse the stuff that other races went through. Ending discrimination is a better way.

How do you explain the system to someone if they're new to your society?

They tax weed to fund welfare programmes for black communities to help reverse centuries of discrimination against black people.

While that's a good thing in itself, I don't see how it reverses discrimination; what about mixed-race communities? Do other minorities get that too? The American slave trade is a blink of an eye compared to how long the Jews have been discriminated against.

[SD_Film Artists]

Should I as a Brit expect to have a cheque through the post from Italians, Norwegians or Danes?

This programme is being funded by a sales tax on marijuana.

What's your point? That the money will smell of weed?

[Satuga]

An equal society isn't one in which everyone has the same thoughts. I care about the actions people take and the material conditions of their lives, not the contents of their minds.

No one cares about what thoughts other people have, except presumably you.

I don't know how to be more clear to you. I am not interested in whatever the fuck "What about other countries?" conversation you are having here. I do not care, but you keep acting like I am attacking America or something. I'm just talking about the topic of this thread. I am responding to points you raise relevant to this thread. I am not going to defend a position that I do not support just because you have attributed it to me.

1st I didn't mean thoughts as in just that thoughts, but also words and how someone behaves in a situation. 2nd Even if I did does that mean you're perfectly fine with someone saying that gays should have no right to marry, whether you like it or not it's still discriminatory and therefore not equal.

I don't think you've been paying attention to all the arguments I've made because while I made that argument it was only one argument out of the various others I've made, not to mention it is still relevant within the conversation you just choose to deny it. Also what position did I force you into defending? Was it when I asked you to look for proof? Cause that's not me forcing you to take a position, that's me asking to enforce the position YOU chose to take.

[Joohan]

I move that we all take a note of Evanstone's book... and we have Italian American's pay reparations to German Americans for the enslavement that they thrust upon my people hundreds of years ago.

You have no idea how crippling it has been for my brothers and sisters to grow up in a culture in the dark of Rome's shadow - a symbol of oppression and tyranny for all germanics. I think it only fair that Italian's pay reparations for the harm that they have caused.

If you can convince a city to do that then more power to you.

People acting like Evanston is a domino that will force the rest of the United States to pay reparations.

Not if, should. Should reparations be paid

[Joohan]

I move that we all take a note of Evanstone's book... and we have Italian American's pay reparations...

This programme is being funded by a sales tax on marijuana.

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It does when they are literally the only one's receiving this special treatment.

No it doesn't.

Black isn't a social status, poor is.

Black is a social status. Race is a social construct with no basis in biology. And poor is obviously an economic status.

Unless of course you want to go ahead and just start paying reparations to literally every single tribal affinity in America for the discrimination that they received at some point?

Sounds good. Help everyone according to what help they need.

Bruh, it monetary privilege that can only be accessed by a single racial group, to the exclusion of all others. That is literally special treatment.

I'm not going to derail the thread about the whole, race is a social construct thing, but it sure as hell shouldn't be the basis for any tribal based welfare system

But you know, I happen to agree with you about helping people according to their needs. Doing based upon their race would be idiotic idea, but to do it based up their social class: rich, poor, middle, whatever - now that makes sense, and is a whole lot more ethical. A truly color blind welfare system that treats everyone based upon their needs, and not the color of their ancestors skin.

Glad you agree with me

[Aureumterra]

Didn't take long for this proposal to get All Lives Mattered.

You understand paying money to everyone who is black, even if they're not struggling<paying money to anyone in need regardless of race

This is why American liberalism doesn't work, because it cares more about people's skin color and racial identities than it does about actual issues.

You mean identitarianism? Thats a thing everywhere in the West, I’d argue it’s worse in Europe

[The Lone Alliance]

This is when I miss the facepalm smiley.

[Aureumterra]

This is when I miss the facepalm smiley.

Everyone misses it, you can post it as a gif though

[The Lone Alliance]

Yes. As I said, it's not perfect since it should be for those who actually have ancestors who were slaves. In any case, if this ends up being challenged it'll probably get shot down.

So it’s a stupid program that’ll just worsen racism?

But it makes big news when it comes out and it makes the people who passed the law look good.

Hell I'm betting the people who passed this law actually have zero intention of actually giving the money away to anyone. They'll likely put it in some sort of committee that will 'decide how the money will be paid' and instead they'll simply pocket it all into their bonuses one day.

Maybe 5 years down the road the handful of actually minority people in the town might get some 50 dollar check.

"Wee a single night in a good restaurant, that'll make up for slavery!!!"

[Aureumterra]

So it’s a stupid program that’ll just worsen racism?

But it makes big news when it comes out and it makes the people who passed the law look good.

Hell I'm betting the people who passed this law actually have zero intention of actually giving the money away to anyone. They'll likely put it in some sort of committee that will 'decide how the money will be paid' and instead they'll simply pocket it all into their bonuses one day.

Maybe 5 years down the road the handful of actually minority people in the town might get some 50 dollar check.

"Wee a single night in a good restaurant, that'll make up for slavery!!!"

Morally speaking, the only way to make up for slavery is to enslave white people, but that’s obviously not happening, so why have the whole reparations thing for a single race when you can have welfare programs for everyone of every race in the lower class

[Uiiop]

What's your point? That the money will smell of weed?

As supposed to the idea that Black people don't buy weed?

You're kinda hung up by the idea of "Taking white's people's money for the blacks" that you can't actually understand what people are actually supposing both in the abstract and what the programmae (however dumb it is) is actually doing.

[The Lone Alliance]

Morally speaking, the only way to make up for slavery is to enslave white people, but that’s obviously not happening, so why have the whole reparations thing for a single race when you can have welfare programs for everyone of every race in the lower class

We should dig up everyone's coffins and swap their positions since the ones who did do all that are dead.

We can stick the slave owners in the slave cemeteries and the slaves in the slave owner cemeteries.

[Ifreann]

How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against one race of people without ever targetting assistance to that race of people?

No amount of money is going to reverse that, just as no amount of money is going to reverse the stuff that other races went through.

This programme isn't just giving people money.

Ending discrimination is a better way.

Desisting from discriminating doesn't undo past discrimination.

They tax weed to fund welfare programmes for black communities to help reverse centuries of discrimination against black people.

While that's a good thing in itself, I don't see how it reverses discrimination;

Well see, being discriminated against stopped black people from getting good jobs and education and things like that, and this programme will give them job training and access to education and things like that.

Pretty straight forward.

what about mixed-race communities? Do other minorities get that too? The American slave trade is a blink of an eye compared to how long the Jews have been discriminated against.

Well it's not up to me, but yes, everyone should get help when they need help.

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What's your point? That the money will smell of weed?

My point is that isn't a case money being taken from white people because they did slavery. This is just the government raising money to help black people.

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1st I didn't mean thoughts as in just that thoughts, but also words and how someone behaves in a situation. 2nd Even if I did does that mean you're perfectly fine with someone saying that gays should have no right to marry, whether you like it or not it's still discriminatory and therefore not equal.

Speaking is an action.

I don't think you've been paying attention to all the arguments I've made because while I made that argument it was only one argument out of the various others I've made, not to mention it is still relevant within the conversation you just choose to deny it. Also what position did I force you into defending? Was it when I asked you to look for proof? Cause that's not me forcing you to take a position, that's me asking to enforce the position YOU chose to take.

I have never taken the position that only America has had people being discriminated against.

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This programme is being funded by a sales tax on marijuana.

---

No it doesn't.

Black is a social status. Race is a social construct with no basis in biology. And poor is obviously an economic status.

Sounds good. Help everyone according to what help they need.

Bruh, it monetary privilege that can only be accessed by a single racial group, to the exclusion of all others. That is literally special treatment.

This programme isn't giving people money.

I'm not going to derail the thread about the whole, race is a social construct thing, but it sure as hell shouldn't be the basis for any tribal based welfare system

But you know, I happen to agree with you about helping people according to their needs. Doing based upon their race would be idiotic idea, but to do it based up their social class: rich, poor, middle, whatever - now that makes sense, and is a whole lot more ethical. A truly color blind welfare system that treats everyone based upon their needs, and not the color of their ancestors skin.

Glad you agree with me

How do you reverse centuries of discrimination against one race of people without ever targetting assistance to that race of people?

[Lesliei]

It being available to people who didn't have enslaved ancestors makes a bad idea even worse.

What percentage of African-American's ancestors weren't enslaved? About 3%. So are you upset that 3% of black people's ancestors weren't enslaved? You are ridiculous. A sales tax on marijuana is the perfect way to create the money for reparations.

[Lesliei]

Would somebody like to tell Evanston that slavery was never legal in Illinois?

Victims of slavery fled there and have been haunted by the socio-economic spectre of it ever since.

Thank you for actually understanding that black people have trauma from slavery.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Oh wait this is real? I legitimately thought it was The Onion when it popped up in my newsfeed…

Race itself is a stupid concept, so why give benefits to a single race when you can give benefits to everyone below a certain income? Content of character matter more than the color of your skin