Northumbrian independence

[Munkcestrian Republic]

More balkanisation? Why?

Because a lot of people have this weird idea that creating more ethnic/historical nation states is going to create world peace or something.

I cannot fathom where they get this idea from, and I don't really care enough to question it.

I cannot fathom where you got this idea from.

[New haven america]

Because a lot of people have this weird idea that creating more ethnic/historical nation states is going to create world peace or something.

I cannot fathom where they get this idea from, and I don't really care enough to question it.

I cannot fathom where you got this idea from.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=475931

[Neanderthaland]

Wow. Didn't even make it off the first page before the Godwins started flying. So much for the "reasonable discussion".

What do you want me to say? The Norse were totally cool and didn't do anything bad?

Yes, because I'm sure the Kingdom of Northumbria wasn't built on any bloodshed at all.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

The British education system has destroyed Northumbrian identity. If you asked the average Northumbrian who Bede is, they wouldn't know. So, yes, things are pretty bad right now. But that's why we need to take action and revive Northumbrian culture.

What Northumbrian culture, exactly? Sing me your 10 favorite Northumbrian folk songs.

I can hardly sing them to you on a forum, and not all of them have lyrics. But I'll name my favourites in no particular order.

Cliffs of Old Tynemouth, Lambton Worm, Hexhamshire Lass, Keel Row, When the Boat Comes In, Lads of Alnwick, Duvet, Jesmond Mill, The Water of Tyne, Collier’s Rant.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

What do you want me to say? The Norse were totally cool and didn't do anything bad?

Yes, because I'm sure the Kingdom of Northumbria wasn't built on any bloodshed at all.

The idea that the Anglo-Saxons came over and wiped out the Celts hasn't been taken seriously for decades.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

I cannot fathom where you got this idea from.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=475931

"Because a lot of people have this weird idea that creating more ethnic/historical nation states is going to create world peace or something."

So where did you get the idea that I have this idea? Because we all know what you mean by "a lot of people".

[Munkcestrian Republic]

The British education system has destroyed Northumbrian identity. If you asked the average Northumbrian who Bede is, they wouldn't know. So, yes, things are pretty bad right now. But that's why we need to take action and revive Northumbrian culture.

Northumbria has been English since the Normans, almost a millennia

No, actually, you're wrong. If you want to insist Northumbria is English, start with Eadred.

[Page]

I love unique topics on NS but can someone honestly answer me this: If I went to a town in Northumbria and asked people if they wanted independence, how many would say yes? I don't think it would be many.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

I love unique topics on NS but can someone honestly answer me this: If I went to a town in Northumbria and asked people if they wanted independence, how many would say yes? I don't think it would be many.

Perhaps not, but that's because Northumbrian culture and identity have been destroyed. But you will find a lot of anger towards Westminster and a desire for control over the region to return to the region - there was widespread support for a regional assembly in the 2004 referendum until the No campaign told everyone the assembly wouldn't have any power (which, while true, probably would have changed over time just as it did for Wales).

And that's a start.

[Kowani]

Oh, look. More nationalism. No.

[The Free Joy State]

I love unique topics on NS but can someone honestly answer me this: If I went to a town in Northumbria and asked people if they wanted independence, how many would say yes? I don't think it would be many.

Looking at the performance of the North East Party in previous General Elections -- a regionalist party committed to a fully devolved assembly for the North East of England and standing candidates in Easington, Newcastle on Tyne (where Northumbria University is based), Redcar and Stockton... probably not.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I sympathise but the project tis but a wistful folly in a global and cosmopolitan capitalist economy involving the ever-increasing transportation of people and goods.

Capitalism and globalism must be destroyed first.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

There would be Mackem separatists in no time.

[The New California Republic]

Northumbria is currently part of the United Kingdom, but once upon a time it was the dominant power in the British Isles

Yes you are right with "once upon a time", it was over a thousand years ago. It has no relevance today. The support for it is non-existent.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Another discussion over this?

Uh, anyway, unless there is a major support for independence among the population of Northumbria (I've yet to be convinced by the reasons you used to use as grounds for Northumbrian independence anyway) I guess it's a dream. Still.
However, nice try to bring the aspiration to the public.

[The New California Republic]

Please try to be serious.

You: *Proposes resurrecting a dead nation that hasn't existed for over a millennia and that there is no support for, save for a minuscule minority.*

Also you: "Be serious."

Wow.

[Liburia]

I hope that this time we can have a reasonable discussion without people making nonsensical claims.

Northumbria is currently part of the United Kingdom, but once upon a time it was the dominant power in the British Isles. Northumbrians were doing stuff elsewhere, too. The calendar that says the year is 2019 was made popular by the efforts of first Bede and later Alcuin, both Northumbrians. Alcuin was a close associate of Charlemagne, and indeed there were a lot of Northumbrians around Charlemagne, and that's no surprise, because Northumbria was a centre of culture and learning.

In short, things were going pretty well for Northumbria.

Unfortunately, there were several civil wars and countless Norse raids. So when the Great Heathen Army invaded because some fierce Norse warrior supposedly got killed by an adder (hmm), Northumbria was defeated. Narrowly, of course. Despite being in the middle of a civil war (which we halted to fight off the invaders) we nearly won at York and if we had won York wouldn't be called York because that's the Norse name for the place. And Northumbria would have remained strong.

So, yeah. We lost. Northumbria was split in two once more, into the old divisions of Bernicia and Deira, which became a rump Northumbria and Yorkshire respectively. Yorkshire was then Norsified. This rump Northumbria was later separated into Northumberland and County Durham but Yorkshire stayed together and decided the Norse were actually cool and based its entire identity around that.

But even today there is a movement that seeks to give the Northumbrian people their voice, identity, and independence back. The Northumbrian independence movement.

What are your thoughts on Northumbrian independence, NSG? Personally, as a Northumbrian, I support it.

Personally I do not object to the partition of England but;
1. What separates you from the English? Do you have a different language?
2. Does the local majority want that?
3. Keep Scotland intact.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Bring back the Danelaw, I want to be a Scandinavian citizen.

[The New California Republic]

Keep Scotland intact.

Difficult, considering that Edinburgh, the capital of Scotland, sits in the sphere of the outdated Northumbrian claim.

It also sits alongside his weird claims regarding how the North Sea would be divided up.

[The Free Joy State]

Bring back the Danelaw, I want to be a Scandinavian citizen.

Sounds good to me. High time our rights as erstwhile Danish citizens were acknowledged.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

@ The New California Republic are you going to actually make a contribution this time and debate or are you just going to sit there linking to posts in previous threads Maybe you could present an argument against Northumbrian independence other than "OUTDATED" or "IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME" for once

[Munkcestrian Republic]

Bring back the Danelaw, I want to be a Scandinavian citizen.

Bring back the Danelaw, I want to be a Scandinavian citizen.

Sounds good to me. High time our rights as erstwhile Danish citizens were acknowledged.

"Bring back the General Government, I want to be a citizen of the Greater Germanic Reich."

You are basically saying "genocide funny because Northumbrian independence funny" so please try to avoid complaining about Godwin's law

[Kavagrad]

The moment that there's evidence that a majority in Northumbria want it is the moment that I start caring.

You're probably better off trying to actually create a sense of national identity before you bring up independence, otherwise you just sound like a bit of a nutter. If you need proof of that, I refer you to every other time this topic has been brought up.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

I hope that this time we can have a reasonable discussion without people making nonsensical claims.

Northumbria is currently part of the United Kingdom, but once upon a time it was the dominant power in the British Isles. Northumbrians were doing stuff elsewhere, too. The calendar that says the year is 2019 was made popular by the efforts of first Bede and later Alcuin, both Northumbrians. Alcuin was a close associate of Charlemagne, and indeed there were a lot of Northumbrians around Charlemagne, and that's no surprise, because Northumbria was a centre of culture and learning.

In short, things were going pretty well for Northumbria.

Unfortunately, there were several civil wars and countless Norse raids. So when the Great Heathen Army invaded because some fierce Norse warrior supposedly got killed by an adder (hmm), Northumbria was defeated. Narrowly, of course. Despite being in the middle of a civil war (which we halted to fight off the invaders) we nearly won at York and if we had won York wouldn't be called York because that's the Norse name for the place. And Northumbria would have remained strong.

So, yeah. We lost. Northumbria was split in two once more, into the old divisions of Bernicia and Deira, which became a rump Northumbria and Yorkshire respectively. Yorkshire was then Norsified. This rump Northumbria was later separated into Northumberland and County Durham but Yorkshire stayed together and decided the Norse were actually cool and based its entire identity around that.

But even today there is a movement that seeks to give the Northumbrian people their voice, identity, and independence back. The Northumbrian independence movement.

What are your thoughts on Northumbrian independence, NSG? Personally, as a Northumbrian, I support it.

Personally I do not object to the partition of England but;
1. What separates you from the English? Do you have a different language?
2. Does the local majority want that?
3. Keep Scotland intact.

1. Yes. There is a northern dialect of it mistakenly called "Scots".
2. Right now the local majority doesn't know what Northumbria is, unfortunately.
3. Keep Northumbria intact.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

The moment that there's evidence that a majority in Northumbria want it is the moment that I start caring.

You're probably better off trying to actually create a sense of national identity before you bring up independence, otherwise you just sound like a bit of a nutter. If you need proof of that, I refer you to every other time this topic has been brought up.

It's amazing how leftists are generally so supportive of Scottish independence, despite a majority not wanting it and Scottish culture basically being an invention of Sir Walter Scott that combined Highland culture (previously seen as that of bandits) with Border (Northumbrian) culture (also previously seen as that of bandits), but they're always against Northumbrian independence when I bring it up