Northumbrian independence

[The New California Republic]

@ The New California Republic are you going to actually make a contribution this time and debate or are you just going to sit there linking to posts in previous threads Maybe you could present an argument against Northumbrian independence other than "OUTDATED" or "IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME" for once

The argument is just as valid friendo, so I'm going to keep using it.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Personally I do not object to the partition of England but;
1. What separates you from the English? Do you have a different language?
2. Does the local majority want that?
3. Keep Scotland intact.

1. Yes. There is a northern dialect of it mistakenly called "Scots".
2. Right now the local majority doesn't know what Northumbria is, unfortunately.
3. Keep Northumbria intact.

Edinburgh is a part of Scotland in present days. To bring it into a new Northrumbian entity, that like you said, is barely existing (sorry) is.....a bit problematic. It's just like saying "bring Ireland under Her Majesty's throne" again just because Ireland was once a part of the U.K.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

The moment that there's evidence that a majority in Northumbria want it is the moment that I start caring.

You're probably better off trying to actually create a sense of national identity before you bring up independence, otherwise you just sound like a bit of a nutter. If you need proof of that, I refer you to every other time this topic has been brought up.

It's amazing how leftists are generally so supportive of Scottish independence, despite a majority not wanting it and Scottish culture basically being an invention of Sir Walter Scott that combined Highland culture (previously seen as that of bandits) with Border (Northumbrian) culture (also previously seen as that of bandits), but they're always against Northumbrian independence when I bring it up

reminder that Northumbrians feel less British than Scots

[Munkcestrian Republic]

@ The New California Republic are you going to actually make a contribution this time and debate or are you just going to sit there linking to posts in previous threads Maybe you could present an argument against Northumbrian independence other than "OUTDATED" or "IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME" for once

The argument is just as valid friendo, so I'm going to keep using it.

I'm disappointed that you don't want to engage in discussion, but I'm not particularly surprised. Thanks for admitting it, though.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

1. Yes. There is a northern dialect of it mistakenly called "Scots".
2. Right now the local majority doesn't know what Northumbria is, unfortunately.
3. Keep Northumbria intact.

Edinburgh is a part of Scotland in present days. To bring it into a new Northrumbian entity, that like you said, is barely existing (sorry) is.....a bit problematic. It's just like saying "bring Ireland under Her Majesty's throne" again just because Ireland was once a part of the U.K.

Sorry, but it's on the map.

[Risottia]

The calendar that says the year is 2019 was made popular by the efforts of first Bede and later Alcuin,

That calendar was in Rome, as a variant of the ancient Roman calendar.

Northumbria was a part of the Roman Empire.

Time to send in the legions again.

[Vassenor]

The moment that there's evidence that a majority in Northumbria want it is the moment that I start caring.

You're probably better off trying to actually create a sense of national identity before you bring up independence, otherwise you just sound like a bit of a nutter. If you need proof of that, I refer you to every other time this topic has been brought up.

It's amazing how leftists are generally so supportive of Scottish independence, despite a majority not wanting it and Scottish culture basically being an invention of Sir Walter Scott that combined Highland culture (previously seen as that of bandits) with Border (Northumbrian) culture (also previously seen as that of bandits), but they're always against Northumbrian independence when I bring it up

Because a much larger proportion of the Scottish population is in favour of independence than this pipe dream.

[The Free Joy State]

Bring back the Danelaw, I want to be a Scandinavian citizen.

Sounds good to me. High time our rights as erstwhile Danish citizens were acknowledged.

"Bring back the General Government, I want to be a citizen of the Greater Germanic Reich."

You are basically saying "genocide funny because Northumbrian independence funny" so please try to avoid complaining about Godwin's law

Firstly, Danelaw and Northumbria were both exactly the same time. Secondly, yeah, it is Godwinning -- and of the most blatant and disgusting kind. In fact, Godwinning seems to be your only response to criticism of this idea that people from the North East have shown no actual interest in (as the General Election results show).

Point to the actual genocide -- as in (as defined by the ICC):

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I don't mean a war between that was lost in 954. I mean a deliberate policy of extermination, with the "intent to destroy a protected group in whole or in part" (that is the definition of genocide -- and most of those who study this do not take lightly to attempts to extend it to anyone who ever lost a war).

EDIT: Academic references, please.

[The New California Republic]

The argument is just as valid friendo, so I'm going to keep using it.

I'm disappointed that you don't want to engage in discussion, but I'm not particularly surprised. Thanks for admitting it, though.

I am engaging in the discussion. The only way you could say otherwise is by wilfully ignoring what I said. If you want to blank out what I'm saying then that shite is entirely on you.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Edinburgh is a part of Scotland in present days. To bring it into a new Northrumbian entity, that like you said, is barely existing (sorry) is.....a bit problematic. It's just like saying "bring Ireland under Her Majesty's throne" again just because Ireland was once a part of the U.K.

Sorry, but it's on the map.

So it kind of justifies it?
Like the link that you posted, the Scottish (probably also the residents of Edinburgh) identify more with the British identity rather than the distant, perhaps recently heard Northumbrian identity. Including people who may not want to become a part of this may won't end well.

[Risottia]

It's amazing how leftists are generally so supportive of Scottish independence, despite a majority not wanting it and Scottish culture basically being an invention of Sir Walter Scott that combined Highland culture (previously seen as that of bandits) with Border (Northumbrian) culture (also previously seen as that of bandits), but they're always against Northumbrian independence when I bring it up

Because a much larger proportion of the Scottish population is in favour of independence than this pipe dream.

Also, uisce and kilts are way cooler than anything from Northumberland.
Seriously, I just used Flower of Scotland as lullaby for the Heir Apparent yesterday. It worked great, especially when I started trilling those "r"s fully.

[The Blaatschapen]

Ugh, neo-bell beakers.

If Northumbrians want independence, they can have it.

But it comes at a price. Outside of the UK, and initially outside of the EU.

Probably inside China's sphere of influence. Unless the USA can have military bases there

[The New California Republic]

Edinburgh is a part of Scotland in present days. To bring it into a new Northrumbian entity, that like you said, is barely existing (sorry) is.....a bit problematic. It's just like saying "bring Ireland under Her Majesty's throne" again just because Ireland was once a part of the U.K.

Sorry, but it's on the map.

Sorry, but the map you are using is out of date.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Ugh, neo-bell beakers.

If Northumbrians want independence, they can have it.

But it comes at a price. Outside of the UK, and initially outside of the EU.

Probably inside China's sphere of influence. Unless the USA can have military bases there

.....I can hear the deep, unspoken yet spoken desire from one of Britannia's estranged children for the black gold.
It's time they come to claim their spot in the homeland.

[The Blaatschapen]

Ugh, neo-bell beakers.

If Northumbrians want independence, they can have it.

But it comes at a price. Outside of the UK, and initially outside of the EU.

Probably inside China's sphere of influence. Unless the USA can have military bases there

.....I can hear the deep, unspoken yet spoken desire from one of Britannia's estranged children for the black gold.
It's time they come to claim their spot in the homeland.

If the maps are old enough, the black gold lands are all rightfully Doggerland clay.

[The New California Republic]

Sorry, but it's on the map.

So it kind of justifies it?
Like the link that you posted, the Scottish (probably also the residents of Edinburgh) identify more with the British identity rather than the distant, perhaps recently heard Northumbrian identity. Including people who may not want to become a part of this may won't end well.

Edinburgh residents wouldn't have a fucking clue what you are talking about if you asked them if Edinburgh should be part of a thousand year dead nation. Edinburgh will never be party to this shit.

[Cappuccina]

So basically OP wants to revive an ethicity that's been extinct for around a millennium, because what would've hadn't it been for those damn Vikings? Northumbria is fully integrated into the UK, good luck with that.

[The Free Joy State]

So it kind of justifies it?
Like the link that you posted, the Scottish (probably also the residents of Edinburgh) identify more with the British identity rather than the distant, perhaps recently heard Northumbrian identity. Including people who may not want to become a part of this may won't end well.

Yes, Edinburgh residents wouldn't have a fucking clue what you are talking about if you asked them if Edinburgh should be part of a thousand year dead nation. Edinburgh will never be party to this shit.

I mean, the majority of Scots don't even want to leave the UK, let alone become part of a newly resurrected Northumbria.

[True Refuge]

In realpolitik terms this can’t happen without Scottish and/or Welsh independence coming first. Giving independence to a group with such tenuous claims as Northumbria Is going to increase pressure from Scottish and Welsh independence movements, which have considerably more reason to secede. Even then it’s uncertain whether those movements will actually get majority support. Northumbrian independence movements definitely won’t, not this century.

No English government is going to preempt the collapse of the Commonwealth’s core.

[The New California Republic]

In realpolitik terms this can’t happen without Scottish and/or Welsh independence coming first. Giving independence to a group with such tenuous claims as Northumbria Is going to increase pressure from Scottish and Welsh independence movements, which have considerably more reason to secede.

And would a newly-independent Scotland cede its capital city of all things to another? Methinks not.

[Vassenor]

In realpolitik terms this can’t happen without Scottish and/or Welsh independence coming first. Giving independence to a group with such tenuous claims as Northumbria Is going to increase pressure from Scottish and Welsh independence movements, which have considerably more reason to secede. Even then it’s uncertain whether those movements will actually get majority support. Northumbrian independence movements definitely won’t, not this century.

No English government is going to preempt the collapse of the Commonwealth’s core.

The current one certainly seems to be trying though.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

The calendar that says the year is 2019 was made popular by the efforts of first Bede and later Alcuin,

That calendar was in Rome, as a variant of the ancient Roman calendar.

Northumbria was a part of the Roman Empire.

Time to send in the legions again.

Wrong, sorry.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

It's amazing how leftists are generally so supportive of Scottish independence, despite a majority not wanting it and Scottish culture basically being an invention of Sir Walter Scott that combined Highland culture (previously seen as that of bandits) with Border (Northumbrian) culture (also previously seen as that of bandits), but they're always against Northumbrian independence when I bring it up

Because a much larger proportion of the Scottish population is in favour of independence than this pipe dream.

It's amazing how leftists are generally so supportive of Scottish independence, despite a majority not wanting it and Scottish culture basically being an invention of Sir Walter Scott that combined Highland culture (previously seen as that of bandits) with Border (Northumbrian) culture (also previously seen as that of bandits), but they're always against Northumbrian independence when I bring it up

reminder that Northumbrians feel less British than Scots

[Munkcestrian Republic]

Firstly, Danelaw and Northumbria were both exactly the same time.

And?

Godwinning seems to be your only response to criticism of this idea that people from the North East have shown no actual interest in (as the General Election results show).

The North East Party does not represent the entire independence movement.

Point to the actual genocide -- as in (as defined by the ICC):

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I don't mean a war between that was lost in 954. I mean a deliberate policy of extermination, with the "intent to destroy a protected group in whole or in part" (that is the definition of genocide -- and most of those who study this do not take lightly to attempts to extend it to anyone who ever lost a war).

EDIT: Academic references, please.

Unfortunately, there are no academic references.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

So it kind of justifies it?
Like the link that you posted, the Scottish (probably also the residents of Edinburgh) identify more with the British identity rather than the distant, perhaps recently heard Northumbrian identity. Including people who may not want to become a part of this may won't end well.

Edinburgh residents wouldn't have a fucking clue what you are talking about if you asked them if Edinburgh should be part of a thousand year dead nation. Edinburgh will never be party to this shit.

Why not?