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The Oxford Comma

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Do We Need the Oxford Comma?

Yes
83
78%
No
5
5%
Spaghetti Meatballs
18
17%
 
Total votes : 106

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Forsher
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Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:53 am

The Free Joy State wrote:But avoiding confusion is significantly less funny, so YMMV.


Exactly!
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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:14 am

My favourite colour combinations are red and yellow, dark blue and light blue, and fluorescent pink and fluorescent green. This is why I love the Oxford comma.
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The Archregimancy
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Posts: 23830
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:01 am

Highlights of Peter Ustinov's global tour included encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector.


Amongst those interviewed were Merle Haggard’s two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson and Robert Duvall.
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

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The Archregimancy
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Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:08 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Very phallocentric to assume God is male. :p

There are times when the Oxford comma may be needed to ensure clarity (and, if that is the case, I will use it), generally it's a stylistic choice and in most cases it's not absolutely needed.

With the sentence: "Bring me my notebook, a pen and my cat." no clarity is lost with or without an Oxford comma.

With Arch's sentence, a serial comma might avoid confusion.

But avoiding confusion is significantly less funny, so YMMV.


God is male, because Goddess is female ;) Why else have a feminine form precisely to point out a female God?


So long as we're being pedantic over grammar (and I've spent much of today editing museum texts about Egyptian gods, with Oxford commas coming up for discussion a fair amount), this is actually false.

'God' was capitalised in my sentence, therefore implying the Abrahamic god. There is no feminine equivalent term in English. 'Goddess' is never capitalised (unless at the start of a sentence), and is cognate to 'god' rather than to 'God'.

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Asle Leopolka
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Posts: 355
Founded: Oct 18, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Asle Leopolka » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:12 am

My fiance works for the state and they get into literal yelling matches over the Oxford comma. Strange times we live in.

Also count me as a member of "Team Oxford."
W̵̲͔͇͒̌̉̆̇͛̋ͅa̸̢̼̺̅̉̊͝l̶̟͈̳̗͒͜l̷̫͝ ̶̱̱̘͖̙̬͖̈́̏̕͘ō̴̼̭̥͔̮̟͒̒͒ͅn̴̖̦͎̯͕̈́̿͘͠ ̸̞̼͉͙́͐̏͝ẗ̴̮͕̰̫̖͉̩̍͆̂͛͝h̵̖̋̉̾̎͆e̸̞̩̳̲͙͎͑ ̴̩̈̽̈́͑S̵̯̮̟͈͎̭͠t̸͍̗̹̬͉̙̓͆̔̿r̸̡̤̺̱̹͈̦͑̈́̅ẹ̶̮͔̳̆͆̄̏̔e̴̢̺͚̠̟͕̋̄̂̓̽͘t̴̢̡̩͙̫̼̚,̸̩̖͌̈́͐̇ ̷̨͐͆P̵̳̦͗r̶̹̪̯͕̬̰̍̓͆o̷̠̱͙̠͔̗̫̽f̶̱͙͇̼̬̮̻̊͌̋į̸̯̩̖͇̍͋̓̾́̏̽ͅt̴͇̬͍̗̺̀̈́̈́͗͊ ̴̧̯̼̩͑̓̒͗i̷̪̲̜̮̼̲̎͑͊̂̕n̶͍̂ ̴͓̻̤̬͎̫̹̎͌̈́́̕͝t̸̺͚͍̕h̷͖͎̙͍̬̫̰̍̀̃̿̓e̷̛̩̔̑̌̾͊ ̵̤̖͎͔͖̂͘͝S̴̳͖̩̪͕̒͒̌͌͝h̷̝͇̱̝̻̓̓͂͑̒ȅ̶̛̞̱̮̏͐͜ḕ̷͙͉̄͜ť̸̫̩̟s̴̲̲̏̑̏̇͆͂͘͜

ᛖᚷᛟ ᛋᚢᛗ ᛒᛖᛋᛏᛁᚨ ᛖᚷᛟ ᚲᚢᛚᛏᚢᛋ
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Satuga
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Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Satuga » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:38 am

In the words of Al Yankovic
If you really wanna, leave out that oxford comma!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc Listen to this song it's funny.
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Greed and Death
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Posts: 49568
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:50 am

Bear Stearns wrote:One thing that always took me awhile to adjust to is that the Oxford comma is not used in business writing.

It is less of an issue now but like with news papers foregoing the oxford comma saved space. If you are writing a 100 page business report this likely nets you a page, which if you are circulating that report to thousands of people would produce noticeable savings.

In general legal writing uses the oxford comma (I would say at this juncture it is malpractice not to in drafting of contracts) however in briefs in support of a motion I have seen attorney's remove their oxfords to get a few more lines to argue their case.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Posts: 4260
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 am

I always use it. I don't think the only use it when needed approach works - unless I am really familiar with your writing style I am not going to know whether you use it routinely or not, so I am not going to know whether there is ambiguity or not.
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US-SSR
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Posts: 1472
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby US-SSR » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:51 pm

Somewhat off-topic, but still: RIP the Apostrophe Protection Society. Epitaph: "Ignorance and Laziness Has Won."

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The Two Jerseys
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13536
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:03 pm

US-SSR wrote:Somewhat off-topic, but still: RIP the Apostrophe Protection Society. Epitaph: "Ignorance and Laziness Has Won."

Best apostrophe misuse I've seen: a sign on the University of Kansas campus.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:28 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:Highlights of a Peter Ustinov's global tour included encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector.


Amongst those interviewed were Merle Haggard’s two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson and Robert Duvall.

Merle understood hard living.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:31 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:Highlights of a Peter Ustinov's global tour included encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector.


Amongst those interviewed were Merle Haggard’s two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson and Robert Duvall.

Merle understood hard living.

Prison will do that.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:57 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Merle understood hard living.

Prison will do that.

Gotta be a tough guy to be with kris and rob.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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Sapporo Hyperspace Riftgate Laboratory
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 183
Founded: Aug 03, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Sapporo Hyperspace Riftgate Laboratory » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:58 am

Oxford gang
WELCOME TO THE SAPPORO HYPERSPACE RIFTGATE LABORATORY

FT/FanT
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Kowani
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Posts: 19297
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:06 am

US-SSR wrote:Somewhat off-topic, but still: RIP the Apostrophe Protection Society. Epitaph: "Ignorance and Laziness Has Won."

Linguistic evolution is a thing, people. Get over it.
Spanish Atheist.
If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – you are merely occupiers.
If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed.
If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the cradle of our nation.
If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression.
All of the above rules apply to us, but not to you.
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Sensorland
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Founded: Jun 30, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sensorland » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:10 am

It just doesn't feel right not to use the Oxford comma.
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The Free Joy State
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Posts: 10657
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:14 am

Kowani wrote:
US-SSR wrote:Somewhat off-topic, but still: RIP the Apostrophe Protection Society. Epitaph: "Ignorance and Laziness Has Won."

Linguistic evolution is a thing, people. Get over it.

Apostrophes are still needed.

Writing "We had no food, so we ate the dogs'." will earn you sympathy.

Writing "We had no food, so we ate the dogs." will earn you a visit from the RSPCA.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

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USS Monitor
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Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:17 am

Oxford comma is your friend.
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Kowani
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Posts: 19297
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:26 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Kowani wrote:Linguistic evolution is a thing, people. Get over it.

Apostrophes are still needed.

Writing "We had no food, so we ate the dogs'." will earn you sympathy.

Writing "We had no food, so we ate the dogs." will earn you a visit from the RSPCA.

Not the point. Rather, that we will adapt, and get along just fine. It’s an inherent quality of language.
Spanish Atheist.
If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – you are merely occupiers.
If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed.
If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the cradle of our nation.
If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression.
All of the above rules apply to us, but not to you.
Our dream of greatness is historical necessity, yours is fascism.

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 10657
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:36 am

Kowani wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Apostrophes are still needed.

Writing "We had no food, so we ate the dogs'." will earn you sympathy.

Writing "We had no food, so we ate the dogs." will earn you a visit from the RSPCA.

Not the point. Rather, that we will adapt, and get along just fine. It’s an inherent quality of language.

Well, it is the point. Sometimes, punctuation can change the meaning of a sentence entirely.

A lot of communication these days is done in a text format, where confusion happens anyway.

Take away proper punctuation, and we'll get more confusion:

"So what do you like?"
"I love baking my family and friends."
"..."

"I have to say something."
"What?"
"I'm sorry I love you."
"..."

Language changes, but it shouldn't change to the cost of becoming incomprehensible.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
Senator
 
Posts: 4260
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:41 am

I do wonder what is going to happen to written language once voice control becomes ubiquitous in technology. Since I stopped working I barely write anymore, except to post here. If I did that by dictating I think it would be rather different to actually typing/writing something, particularly when it comes to punctuation. Will children who grow up rarely needing to write have the physical skills for hand writing?
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Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19297
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:47 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Kowani wrote:Not the point. Rather, that we will adapt, and get along just fine. It’s an inherent quality of language.

Well, it is the point. Sometimes, punctuation can change the meaning of a sentence entirely.

A lot of communication these days is done in a text format, where confusion happens anyway.

Take away proper punctuation, and we'll get more confusion:

"So what do you like?"
"I love baking my family and friends."
"..."

"I have to say something."
"What?"
"I'm sorry I love you."
"..."

Language changes, but it shouldn't change to the cost of becoming incomprehensible.

And I’m sure when we made the Great Vowel Shift, they thought the exact same thing.
Ah, that’s right. Trying to analyze a hypothetical language through the vision of the current one inherently biases the analysis in favor of the current one, because it’s only incomprehensible to us because of the way we analyze it.

Language has already changed to the point where it’d be incomprehensible to certain people in the past. Like, Spanish predating the 17th century, I can’t understand (and almost certainly vice versa).
Spanish Atheist.
If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – you are merely occupiers.
If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed.
If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the cradle of our nation.
If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression.
All of the above rules apply to us, but not to you.
Our dream of greatness is historical necessity, yours is fascism.

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The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 54835
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:52 am

Proper spelling matters too.

Man's laughter is entirely different from manslaughter.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
Senator
 
Posts: 4260
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:55 am

I've lived through the rise of the high rising terminal in the UK. It still leaves me trying to work out what the question is, when there isn't one.
The Holy Trinity: Fatty Arbuckle, Oliver Hardy, Boris Johnson

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An Alan Smithee Nation
Senator
 
Posts: 4260
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:56 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:Proper spelling matters too.

Man's laughter is entirely different from manslaughter.


There used to be a pawn shop near me called Ray's Exchange.
The Holy Trinity: Fatty Arbuckle, Oliver Hardy, Boris Johnson

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