Is all criticism of Israel antisemitic?

[Outer Sparta]

Actually, the name Palestine was used way back during the Roman times denoting the region home to today's Israel, West Bank, Gaza, and parts of Jordan.

But then it was only a geographic reference. Not a national one.
The concept of Palestinian Arabs as a separate nation is a much newer concept (during Roman times there were few Arabs in Roman Palestine).

It was around 700-the early 20th century that the Arabs controlled the region. "Palestine" as a national sentiment appeared as early as the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s.

[Novus America]

Which is a perfectly valid point. And not anti Semitic to say.
Criticizing the current government is perfectly fine, as long as the criticisms are reasonable and not driven by pure animus. Which yours are not.

Although as much as I dislike Netanyahu, and do not think he wants to stop conflict, the Israeli government alone cannot realistically stop the conflict. The Israeli government is part of the cause, but only part. And not even the biggest part.

Frankly the conflict cannot be stopped.
Only better managed.

I'm pretty sure religion is involved in this conflict, and it gets worse.

Oh religion definitely plays a big part, most certainly.
But ultimately you have two groups wanting to control one piece of land.
And just splitting it is not easy as neither side agrees to how it should be split (and many do not want to split it at all, and want the whole thing).

And the one state solution is not viable as it would clearly just fall back into genocidal conflict.

[Gormwood]

Sorry, can you repeat?

Apparently you are anti-Semitic if you dare to point out Israel's human rights abuses or even support Palestinian human rights.

Calling Netanyahu a corrupt asshole is the same as wanting to gas and bake all Jews.

[Gim]

But then it was only a geographic reference. Not a national one.
The concept of Palestinian Arabs as a separate nation is a much newer concept (during Roman times there were few Arabs in Roman Palestine).

It was around 700-the early 20th century that the Arabs controlled the region. "Palestine" as a national sentiment appeared as early as the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s.

The late era of the Ottoman Empire.

[Novus America]

But then it was only a geographic reference. Not a national one.
The concept of Palestinian Arabs as a separate nation is a much newer concept (during Roman times there were few Arabs in Roman Palestine).

It was around 700-the early 20th century that the Arabs controlled the region. "Palestine" as a national sentiment appeared as early as the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s.

True, although it was not until after WWI that Palestine as a national sentiment became widespread. During the Arab revolt for example there was no intention among the Arab leaders to establish it is a separate state.

Jordan did not even recognize it should exist as a state separate from Jordan until after 1967.

But yes the conflict in the region is old, but the parties have changed since Roman times (Jews v Romans to Greeks and Romans (eh that whole Greek/Roman thing is complicated enough) v Arabs to Arabs v French and German crusaders, to Arabs v Turks...)

[Fahran]

We also have to acknowledge the long history of Palestine to get a grasp of the entire issue.

Honestly, I just think religious conflict factors into their animosity.

The conflict is more nationalistic than religious in all honesty.

[Fahran]

Actually, the name Palestine was used way back during the Roman times denoting the region home to today's Israel, West Bank, Gaza, and parts of Jordan.

But then it was only a geographic reference. Not a national one.
The concept of Palestinian Arabs as a separate nation is a much newer concept (during Roman times there were few Arabs in Roman Palestine).

Palestinian nationalism as a wholly distinct movement from Arab nationalism only really emerged in the 1960's and 1970's as Pan-Arabism began to fall to pieces. Prior to that, Palestinian intellectuals, authors, poets, and philosophers made numerous contributions to Arab identity and culture.

[Rojava Free State]

Apparently you are anti-Semitic if you dare to point out Israel's human rights abuses or even support Palestinian human rights.

Calling Netanyahu a corrupt asshole is the same as wanting to gas and bake all Jews.

What's wrong with being gassed and baked? I smoke gas and get baked every week lmao

Real talk, criticizing Israel is not the same as wanting to kill people for being Jews

[Fahran]

Actually, the name Palestine was used way back during the Roman times denoting the region home to today's Israel, West Bank, Gaza, and parts of Jordan.

Joshua was called upon by God to conquer the territories of Akkadians, Sumerians, and Palestinians. Outer Sparta is right.

Um, no...

[Rojava Free State]

Honestly, I just think religious conflict factors into their animosity.

The conflict is more nationalistic than religious in all honesty.

Yeah it's mostly about ethnicity. Atheist Jews and christian Arabs are still on different sides of the conflict as a result

[Rojava Free State]

But then it was only a geographic reference. Not a national one.
The concept of Palestinian Arabs as a separate nation is a much newer concept (during Roman times there were few Arabs in Roman Palestine).

Palestinian nationalism as a wholly distinct movement from Arab nationalism only really emerged in the 1960's and 1970's as Pan-Arabism began to fall to pieces. Prior to that, Palestinian intellectuals, authors, poets, and philosophers made numerous contributions to Arab identity and culture.

Palestinians are definitely a distinct nation. Arab nationalism has helped to cover that fact up as much as Israeli propaganda did. As someone who has visited egypt, Lebanon and palestine, I can tell you they're different cultures. Saying Palestinians are just Arabs is like saying Mexicans are just latinos. Yes that's partially true but you'd be out of your mind to consider Mexicans and say, Puerto Ricans the same people, and simply mentioning this idea would cause my grandmother to run down on you violently.

[Fahran]

It was around 700-the early 20th century that the Arabs controlled the region. "Palestine" as a national sentiment appeared as early as the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s.

Again, no. The Levant was controlled by the Umayyads, the Abbasids, a bunch of Turkic dynasties, the Ayyubids, the Crusader States, and then, eventually, the Ottomans. It was honestly controlled politically by assorted Turkic groups longer than it was controlled by Arabs despite most people in the region speaking Arabic after a time. If we're giving it to the people who controlled it the longest, we'd best get ready for Greater Turkey.

[Rojava Free State]

It was around 700-the early 20th century that the Arabs controlled the region. "Palestine" as a national sentiment appeared as early as the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s.

Again, no. The Levant was controlled by the Umayyads, the Abbasids, a bunch of Turkic dynasties, the Ayyubids, the Crusader States, and then, eventually, the Ottomans. It was honestly controlled politically by assorted Turkic groups longer than it was controlled by Arabs despite most people in the region speaking Arabic after a time. If we're giving it to the people who controlled it the longest, we'd best get ready for Greater Turkey.

No.

No God no do not

[Fahran]

Palestinians are definitely a distinct nation. Arab nationalism has helped to cover that fact up as much as Israeli propaganda did. As someone who has visited egypt, Lebanon and palestine, I can tell you they're different cultures. Saying Palestinians are just Arabs is like saying Mexicans are just latinos. Yes that's partially true but you'd be out of your mind to consider Mexicans and say, Puerto Ricans the same people, and simply mentioning this idea would cause my grandmother to run down on you violently.

I'm well aware that "Arab" is more of a linguistic and broad cultural categorization than a proper ethnic one. It's a bit like "Jew" in that respect since Arabs speak dramatically different dialects, have dramatically different ancestry and genetic markers, and have dramatically different cuisine and cultural traits. My point is that the earliest nationalists in the Levant were not striving to create a separate Palestinian nation-state. They were Pan-Arab nationalists like Nasser and Aflaq, and that didn't change until Arabs began to realize that Pan-Arabism was a dumb idea that didn't actually work in practice because Egyptians and Syrians don't have THAT much in common and everybody wants power.

[Fahran]

No.

No God no do not

Pan-Turanism is not a bad thing, friendo. :^)

[Novus America]

Honestly, I just think religious conflict factors into their animosity.

The conflict is more nationalistic than religious in all honesty.

The thing is the nations involved are based in part on religious identity though.
And control of religious sites is a big issue.
So the religious and nationalistic aspects cannot be completely separated.

[Rojava Free State]

The conflict is more nationalistic than religious in all honesty.

The thing is the nations involved are based in part on religious identity though.
And control of religious sites is a big issue.
So the religious and nationalistic aspects cannot be completely separated.

It's like the troubles in northern ireland. Religion was heavily tied to ethnicity and while the IRA wasn't bombing people in the name of the pope, religion was a major historical division.

We need to differ between ethno-nationalist conflicts which are based partially on historical religious divisions and actually religious wars, in which all sides are killing in the name of god.

[Novus America]

Palestinian nationalism as a wholly distinct movement from Arab nationalism only really emerged in the 1960's and 1970's as Pan-Arabism began to fall to pieces. Prior to that, Palestinian intellectuals, authors, poets, and philosophers made numerous contributions to Arab identity and culture.

Palestinians are definitely a distinct nation. Arab nationalism has helped to cover that fact up as much as Israeli propaganda did. As someone who has visited egypt, Lebanon and palestine, I can tell you they're different cultures. Saying Palestinians are just Arabs is like saying Mexicans are just latinos. Yes that's partially true but you'd be out of your mind to consider Mexicans and say, Puerto Ricans the same people, and simply mentioning this idea would cause my grandmother to run down on you violently.

They definitely identify as a distinct nation now. But that is relatively recent. Divisions within a vague and over road ethnic identity do not always identify as nations although many do.

[Rojava Free State]

No.

No God no do not

Pan-Turanism is not a bad thing, friendo. :^)

Based on the actions of the ottoman empire and recep tayyip erdogan, I think the middle East would be in grave danger if a pan turkic empire was created

[Novus America]

The thing is the nations involved are based in part on religious identity though.
And control of religious sites is a big issue.
So the religious and nationalistic aspects cannot be completely separated.

It's like the troubles in northern ireland. Religion was heavily tied to ethnicity and while the IRA wasn't bombing people in the name of the pope, religion was a major historical division.

We need to differ between ethno-nationalist conflicts which are based partially on historical religious divisions and actually religious wars, in which all sides are killing in the name of god.

Very true. And this is definitely the former. It is not a religious war, but religion plays a part in the ethno nationalism here.

[Fahran]

Pan-Turanism is not a bad thing, friendo. :^)

Based on the actions of the ottoman empire and recep tayyip erdogan, I think the middle East would be in grave danger if a pan turkic empire was created

Oh, I'm joking. That would be a very bad idea.

[Outer Sparta]

The conflict is more nationalistic than religious in all honesty.

The thing is the nations involved are based in part on religious identity though.
And control of religious sites is a big issue.
So the religious and nationalistic aspects cannot be completely separated.

Consider Jerusalem, a holy city for all three Abrahamic religions, which is located smack in the middle of this entire conflict.

[Israeli Totalitariat]

Yes, all criticism of Israel as a whole is antisemitic. Israel was founded as the nationstate and homeland of the Jewish people, and to criticise that is simply antisemetic. People are of course entitled to their own opinions, and if your opinion is antisemetic, that is fine. Just don't deny what you are.

from your signature:

"Zionist Occupation Government"
"The Eternal Jew"

Don't you have an F7 thread to be hilarious in?

thats nice

[Israeli Totalitariat]

Apparently you are anti-Semitic if you dare to point out Israel's human rights abuses or even support Palestinian human rights.

Calling Netanyahu a corrupt asshole is the same as wanting to gas and bake all Jews.

Yeah sure, pretty much

[Gormwood]

Calling Netanyahu a corrupt asshole is the same as wanting to gas and bake all Jews.

Yeah sure, pretty much

Yes, all criticism of Israel as a whole is antisemitic. Israel was founded as the nationstate and homeland of the Jewish people, and to criticise that is simply antisemetic. People are of course entitled to their own opinions, and if your opinion is antisemetic, that is fine. Just don't deny what you are.

That's some dedicated performance art.