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Is all criticism of Israel antisemitic?

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Imma be imma be
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Postby Imma be imma be » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:38 pm

I like to think of Israel as a protective mother. Loving and invests so much money into their child (Palestine). But occasionally a bit of discipline is needed. This is where people who chuck rocks and throw molotovs at IDF troops come in.

Who here has played Custer's Revenge?
Last edited by Imma be imma be on Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gim
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Postby Gim » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:57 pm

Imma be imma be wrote:I like to think of Israel as a protective mother. Loving and invests so much money into their child (Palestine). But occasionally a bit of discipline is needed. This is where people who chuck rocks and throw molotovs at IDF troops come in.

Who here has played Custer's Revenge?


Israel a mother? It's more of a son, considering it used to be the land of God.
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:59 pm

Gim wrote:
Imma be imma be wrote:I like to think of Israel as a protective mother. Loving and invests so much money into their child (Palestine). But occasionally a bit of discipline is needed. This is where people who chuck rocks and throw molotovs at IDF troops come in.

Who here has played Custer's Revenge?


Israel a mother? It's more of a son, considering it used to be the land of God.

He just said the Palestinians need to be disciplined by having their women raped.
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Gim
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Postby Gim » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:01 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Gim wrote:
Israel a mother? It's more of a son, considering it used to be the land of God.

He just said the Palestinians need to be disciplined by having their women raped.


Yeah, so Israelites should be men, instead of a mother.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:05 pm

Gim wrote:
Imma be imma be wrote:I like to think of Israel as a protective mother. Loving and invests so much money into their child (Palestine). But occasionally a bit of discipline is needed. This is where people who chuck rocks and throw molotovs at IDF troops come in.

Who here has played Custer's Revenge?


Israel a mother? It's more of a son, considering it used to be the land of God.

Israel is most often compared to a bride.

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Gim
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Postby Gim » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:05 pm

Fahran wrote:
Gim wrote:
Israel a mother? It's more of a son, considering it used to be the land of God.

Israel is most often compared to a bride.


I see. Personally, I've never heard of that, but it must be true. (No sarcasm.)
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:06 pm

Gim wrote:
Gormwood wrote:He just said the Palestinians need to be disciplined by having their women raped.


Yeah, so Israelites should be men, instead of a mother.

1. Yeah. Rape is bad.

2. Most men aren't rapists.

3. Some women, just like some men, are rapists.

4. Let's not go deeper into this because it's gross.

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:06 pm

Gim wrote:
Fahran wrote:Israel is most often compared to a bride.


I see. Personally, I've never heard of that, but it must be true. (No sarcasm.)

Song of Songs?

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Gim
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Postby Gim » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:06 pm

Fahran wrote:
Gim wrote:
Yeah, so Israelites should be men, instead of a mother.

1. Yeah. Rape is bad.

2. Most men aren't rapists.

3. Some women, just like some men, are rapists.

4. Let's not go deeper into this because it's gross.


Yes, many cases of rape and adultery are shown in the Bible.
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:15 pm

Fahran wrote:
Gim wrote:
Yeah, so Israelites should be men, instead of a mother.

1. Yeah. Rape is bad.

2. Most men aren't rapists.

3. Some women, just like some men, are rapists.

4. Let's not go deeper into this because it's gross.

Context matters, especially when referencing a shit game where you score points by raping Native women.
Last edited by Gormwood on Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:41 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Fahran wrote:1. Yeah. Rape is bad.

2. Most men aren't rapists.

3. Some women, just like some men, are rapists.

4. Let's not go deeper into this because it's gross.

Context matters, especially when referencing a shit game where you score points by raping Native women.


That game is ahistorical because Custer never raped anyone or committed war crimes. The only thing he is guilty of is tactical ignorance and getting his own men killed.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:42 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Fahran wrote:1. Yeah. Rape is bad.

2. Most men aren't rapists.

3. Some women, just like some men, are rapists.

4. Let's not go deeper into this because it's gross.

Context matters, especially when referencing a shit game where you score points by raping Native women.

Hence point one. Let's not pretend like rape is good. And let's not dwell on arguments that it is good or morally acceptable. Low-hanging fruit should often be left to rot. Maybe a single post will suffice for that?

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:00 pm

Fahran wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Context matters, especially when referencing a shit game where you score points by raping Native women.

Hence point one. Let's not pretend like rape is good. And let's not dwell on arguments that it is good or morally acceptable. Low-hanging fruit should often be left to rot. Maybe a single post will suffice for that?

So what was the point of bringing up how most men aren't rapists and that some women are, besides pushing an MRA narrative. But anyways he was exposed as a DoS like I suspected so let's move on.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:28 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Fahran wrote:Hence point one. Let's not pretend like rape is good. And let's not dwell on arguments that it is good or morally acceptable. Low-hanging fruit should often be left to rot. Maybe a single post will suffice for that?

So what was the point of bringing up how most men aren't rapists and that some women are, besides pushing an MRA narrative. But anyways he was exposed as a DoS like I suspected so let's move on.

Because the narrative is problematic and untruthful, pathologizes men, removes the moral agency from women, doesn't deserve an overarching discussion in a thread that isn't dedicated to discussing it, and, lastly, given the penchant of some for going into gratuitous sexualized details when it comes to contentious issues, I'd prefer to avoid personifying Israel as a man with any insinuation of sexual assault against a personified Palestine. It should suffice to say "Rape is morally unacceptable and, in this context, it's a war crime and human rights violation. Do not support such a disgusting thing." But good on you for reporting a DoS. Let's get back to the topic.
Last edited by Fahran on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:37 pm

Imma be imma be wrote:I like to think of Israel as a protective mother. Loving and invests so much money into their child (Palestine). But occasionally a bit of discipline is needed. This is where people who chuck rocks and throw molotovs at IDF troops come in.

Who here has played Custer's Revenge?


Israel is as loving of a mother as casey anthony. Palestinians have had their lives ruined and in many cases ended because the knesset takes great joy in inflicting suffering on arabs, and the sooner America starts threatening to cut off their funding to reign them in, the better.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:40 pm

Gim wrote:
Gormwood wrote:He just said the Palestinians need to be disciplined by having their women raped.


Yeah, so Israelites should be men, instead of a mother.


I wish the people calling the shots in Israel would be men. Newsflash, putting children in choke holds and beating unarmed people down doesn't make you a man. Murdering kids doesn't make you a man. It makes them a bitch in the eyes of most people. So I totally support your idea of the Israeli government manning up and even better, of them right now being forced to go and build new houses for the Palestinians who lost theirs, and taking those settlers kicking and screaming back across the 67 border.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:42 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Imma be imma be wrote:I like to think of Israel as a protective mother. Loving and invests so much money into their child (Palestine). But occasionally a bit of discipline is needed. This is where people who chuck rocks and throw molotovs at IDF troops come in.

Who here has played Custer's Revenge?


Israel is as loving of a mother as casey anthony. Palestinians have had their lives ruined and in many cases ended because the knesset takes great joy in inflicting suffering on arabs, and the sooner America starts threatening to cut off their funding to reign them in, the better.

The US doesn't really make those sorts of threats towards Cold War allies of convenience at the moment. We haven't really threatened the Chinese, the Saudis, the Turks, or anyone else with such severe penalties, certainly not for the benefit of people who aren't more useful American allies. It'd be poor foreign policy. And we shouldn't pretend anyone else with sense is behaving in a purely moral way either. The Arabs, Turks, Iranians, and Russians certainly aren't. They have no problem with genocide and persecution. Maybe Canada and Sweden are moral actors in international affairs, but they can afford to be.

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Postby United Massachusetts » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:42 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Israel is as loving of a mother as casey anthony. Palestinians have had their lives ruined and in many cases ended because the knesset takes great joy in inflicting suffering on arabs, and the sooner America starts threatening to cut off their funding to reign them in, the better.

In spite of Arabs having full rights to vote and serve in the Knesset, and the existence of Arab parties in the Knesset?

I would like to see Israel's neighbors (a) adopt democratic institutions or (b) allow Jews to serve in these institutions. Arabs in Israel have more rights than Arabs in many Arab-majority countries, to be honest.
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:46 pm

Fahran wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Israel is as loving of a mother as casey anthony. Palestinians have had their lives ruined and in many cases ended because the knesset takes great joy in inflicting suffering on arabs, and the sooner America starts threatening to cut off their funding to reign them in, the better.

The US doesn't really make those sorts of threats towards Cold War allies of convenience at the moment. We haven't really threatened the Chinese, the Saudis, the Turks, or anyone else with such severe penalties, certainly not for the benefit of people who aren't more useful American allies. It'd be poor foreign policy. And we shouldn't pretend anyone else with sense is behaving in a purely moral way either. The Arabs, Turks, Iranians, and Russians certainly aren't. They have no problem with genocide and persecution. Maybe Canada and Sweden are moral actors in international affairs, but they can afford to be.


Afford to be? I'm sorry, let's not make excuses for bullshit like this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 23427.html

This is downright sick. I don't care how entitled Israel feels to exist, murdering civilians is a war crime. Iran and Saudi Arabia being just as bad isn't an excuse, and just to be clear I think they're both horrible bastards in their own rights. Anyone who kills kids doesn't have sense, they're just a psychotic screwball that keeps being allowed to get away with it for a thousand dumb reasons. I know one thing and that is if your family was killed or injured in circumstances similar to these, you wouldn't be making excuses for the killers, and rightly so. They're murderers. Cold blooded killers. Not brave warriors. Not freedom fighters. They're war criminals. I have no sympathy for someone who can put a child in his rifle sights and pull the trigger, and that's across the board for any country on earth
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:48 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:Israel is as loving of a mother as casey anthony. Palestinians have had their lives ruined and in many cases ended because the knesset takes great joy in inflicting suffering on arabs, and the sooner America starts threatening to cut off their funding to reign them in, the better.

In spite of Arabs having full rights to vote and serve in the Knesset,


Yeah, how about Palestinians?
and the existence of Arab parties in the Knesset?

Yes, and China has opposition parties.
I would like to see Israel's neighbors (a) adopt democratic institutions or (b) allow Jews to serve in these institutions.
Whataboutism.
Arabs in Israel have more rights than Arabs in many Arab-majority countries, to be honest.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:51 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:Israel is as loving of a mother as casey anthony. Palestinians have had their lives ruined and in many cases ended because the knesset takes great joy in inflicting suffering on arabs, and the sooner America starts threatening to cut off their funding to reign them in, the better.

In spite of Arabs having full rights to vote and serve in the Knesset, and the existence of Arab parties in the Knesset?

I would like to see Israel's neighbors (a) adopt democratic institutions or (b) allow Jews to serve in these institutions. Arabs in Israel have more rights than Arabs in many Arab-majority countries, to be honest.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 23427.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mi ... story.html

https://therealnews.com/stories/israeli ... ers-pt-1-2

https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Confli ... lem-595300

The Arab parties don't mean shit when this stuff happens. Stop making excuses for Israel acting like a dick, because every time someone tries to make excuses for israel, there's a million news articles about why you're just wrong
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Nova Sinionacum
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Postby Nova Sinionacum » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:58 pm

the answer should be a no...
but this question's existence already means a lot of people think all critics about israel are anti-semitic.
maybe political correctness is an alternative form of tyranny.

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Prosa
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Postby Prosa » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:01 pm

Hating Jews is antisemitism.

Hating Israel is common sense.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:01 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Afford to be? I'm sorry, let's not make excuses for bullshit like this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 23427.html

Not really laudable but they're ordering troops to fire in combat zones. This happens because Hamas has decided to employ civilians as human shields in a systematic way and often doesn't wear any distinguishing uniforms. That said, I have no problem with insisting that American allies fight conflicts in a manner palatable to us but we shouldn't dissolve our alliances for the sake of neutrals in the absence of more compelling reasons.

Rojava Free State wrote:This is downright sick.

It definitely is. It probably violates Jewish Law as well.

Rojava Free State wrote:I don't care how entitled Israel feels to exist, murdering civilians is a war crime. Iran and Saudi Arabia being just as bad isn't an excuse, and just to be clear I think they're both horrible bastards in their own rights.

I believe every government in that region is downright terrible. Abdullah II and his government are probably the only exception in all frankness. Maybe the governments of Tunisia and Morocco as well if we include North Africa. My intention wasn't really to excuse war crimes. It was more so to argue that it would be a poor foreign policy to abandon Israel in this context. The Palestinians winning the conflict won't be good for human rights or for American interests. Arguably, that'd be bad for both ostensible goals. And that's assuming Israel doesn't get Russian support and get off the leash altogether - since a lot of settlers are Russian-speaking Jews.

Rojava Free State wrote:Anyone who kills kids doesn't have sense, they're just a psychotic screwball that keeps being allowed to get away with it for a thousand dumb reasons.

I think people often rationalize the evil they commit.

Rojava Free State wrote:I know one thing and that is if your family was killed or injured in circumstances similar to these, you wouldn't be making excuses for the killers, and rightly so. They're murderers. Cold blooded killers. Not brave warriors. Not freedom fighters. They're war criminals. I have no sympathy for someone who can put a child in his rifle sights and pull the trigger, and that's across the board for any country on earth

I don't really disagree with this sentiment at all either.

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:01 pm

Prosa wrote:Hating Jews is antisemitism.

Hating Israel is common sense.

I mean... Hating JUST Israel is probably Antisemitism too to be honest.

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