MAGAThread XVIII: The Authority Is Total

[Gormwood]

But because impeachment is a powerful tool to remove any officer of the United States, both sides know that to use it so frivolously would open themselves up to retaliation in the same manner since turnabout, as we all know, is fair play.

The trepidation with using impeachment for anything less than criminal is one of those things the Federalists correctly predicted.

If they could just get it done so the other side can do the same. And vice versa until government is so useless it's redundant and we can evolve past the need for authority, that'd be great thanks.

Oh good, another wannabe warlord.

[Zurkerx]

And now some more stats by yours truly: Poll by NPR.

So some stats to spit out here:

1. No matter what is said in the hearings, it won't change peoples' minds with 65% saying nothing can change their minds while 30% say it can. Broken down by Party, 25% of Democrats, 24% Republicans, and 39% of Independents say their minds can be changed.

2. Next is whether the people, whom read and examine the evidence, support impeachment more or less, with 47% saying yes more likely while 41% saying less likely. There's a stark divide though with 86% of Democrats (6% less likely) more likely to support while 83% of Republicans say they're less likely to support (11% more likely). Independents are split, with 45% saying more likely and less likely to support impeachment.

3. The third and final relevant question here is whether the identity of the Whistleblower should be protected, with again, stark divides: 56% say yes while 39% say no. 83% of Democrats said yes (13% said no) while 78% of Republicans said no (16% said yes). This is where independents aren't divided: 59% said yes and 37% said no.

Essentially, we're a divided nation although if Democrats or Republicans can change the narrative to their favor, then they'll have an advantage coming into the 2020 Election. I suspect both Republicans and Democrats will remain firm despite what evidence is given, although I do I think more Independents will come to favor impeach, but by only a slight majority, 50% to 48% respectfully. That should put support for impeachment, by the time Articles of impeachment are drafted, to be in the low to mid 50s to mid to high 40s for those opposing it: too polar for the Democratic Candidates to campaign on.

[Gormwood]

Devon "Nude Pictures of Trump" Nunez fixating on the whistleblower making it clear the GOP wants to retaliate. And The Hill is becoming more visible as another FOXNews.

And now fixating on the Bidens and the Ukrainespiracy. Jesus Fucking Christ.

"Firing the prosecutor investigating Burisma." Okay, proof Nunez is huffing shit.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Devon "Nude Pictures of Trump" fixating on the whistleblower making it clear the GOP wants to retaliate. And The Hill is becoming more visible as another FOXNews.

And now fixating on the Bidens and the Ukrainespiracy. Jesus Fucking Christ.

Gormwood President Trump and the Republicans are going to fight hard against the Democrats biased impeachment attempt, I would too if I were them, and you would too if you were them, under the same circumstances. Their is no other word to use than biased.

[Eitoan]

Devon "Nude Pictures of Trump" fixating on the whistleblower making it clear the GOP wants to retaliate. And The Hill is becoming more visible as another FOXNews.

And now fixating on the Bidens and the Ukrainespiracy. Jesus Fucking Christ.

Gormwood President Trump and the Republicans are going to fight hard against the Democrats biased impeachment attempt, I would toot if I were them, and you would too if you were them, under the same circumstances. Their is no other word to use than biased.

What Greater Miami Shores said.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Gormwood President Trump and the Republicans are going to fight hard against the Democrats biased impeachment attempt, I would toot if I were them, and you would too if you were them, under the same circumstances. Their is no other word to use than biased.

What Greater Miami Shores said.

The biased Democrats have declared Political war on President Trump and the Republicans. This is Political war started by the Democrats.

[Asle Leopolka]

Devon "Nude Pictures of Trump" Nunez fixating on the whistleblower making it clear the GOP wants to retaliate. And The Hill is becoming more visible as another FOXNews.

And now fixating on the Bidens and the Ukrainespiracy. Jesus Fucking Christ.

"Firing the prosecutor investigating Burisma." Okay, proof Nunez is huffing shit.

I assume you mean the publication and I'd say they're more like the WSJ or Economist than Fox News - right of center with factual reporting and a handful of very opinionated writers. Fox News spins and is anything but honest and factual (CNN and MSNBC are the left-wing equivalents; read your news, don't watch it).

What Greater Miami Shores said.

The biased Democrats have declared Political war on President Trump and the Republicans. This is Political war started by the Democrats.

They've had it out for him since January 2017. Although to be fair the GOP did the exact same thing with Obama in 2009, albeit not to these lengths. I'd wager many more Americans would be in favor of the impeachment hearings if they weren't so blatantly political and the Dems hadn't frequently announced they were out for blood.

[San Lumen]

Even if what you ordered is against the law or unconstitutional or flat out insane?

If you are refereeing to President Trump as an example, President Trump has not done anything wrong and the Democrats against him for political reasons have not proven he has done anything wrong. Re read my posts today of Monday November 18 2019. The best day of posting I have ever had on nation states on the Trump impeachment threads.

That doesn’t answer my inquiry. Can you please just admit there is nothing he can do that would make you not support him?

[Gormwood]

If you are refereeing to President Trump as an example, President Trump has not done anything wrong and the Democrats against him for political reasons have not proven he has done anything wrong. Re read my posts today of Monday November 18 2019. The best day of posting I have ever had on nation states on the Trump impeachment threads.

That doesn’t answer my inquiry. Can you please just admit there is nothing he can do that would make you not support him?

Now if Miguel Díaz-Canel wrote a kiss-ass letter to Trump and promised him a Trump Tower Havana to where he reopened Cuba in a carbon copy goldplated version of Obama's policy and talked about how wonderful the Castros were...

[Greater Miami Shores]

If you are refereeing to President Trump as an example, President Trump has not done anything wrong and the Democrats against him for political reasons have not proven he has done anything wrong. Re read my posts today of Monday November 18 2019. The best day of posting I have ever had on nation states on the Trump impeachment threads.

That doesn’t answer my inquiry. Can you please just admit there is nothing he can do that would make you not support him?

I will admit it, if you admit that you accept as facts anything the Democrats say against President Trump? do we have an agreement?

[San Lumen]

That doesn’t answer my inquiry. Can you please just admit there is nothing he can do that would make you not support him?

I will admit it, if you admit that you accept as facts anything the Democrats say against President Trump? do we have an agreement?

There is nothing they have said that isn't factual. You simply cannot admit that Trump has done anything wrong. the fact that you said you would have attended Trump University a literal scam says it all.

[Greater Miami Shores]

I will admit it, if you admit that you accept as facts anything the Democrats say against President Trump? do we have an agreement?

There is nothing they have said that isn't factual. You simply cannot admit that Trump has done anything wrong. the fact that you said you would have attended Trump University a literal scam says it all.

I have presented the statements of Ambassadors Bill Taylor and Marie Yovanovitch with Video were they state President Trump has done nothing wrong to their knowledge. Perhaps you have not seen my posts, because the thread moves very fast and their are hundreds of posts.

[San Lumen]

There is nothing they have said that isn't factual. You simply cannot admit that Trump has done anything wrong. the fact that you said you would have attended Trump University a literal scam says it all.

I have presented the statements of Ambassadors Bill Taylor and Marie Yovanovitch with Video were they state President Trump has done nothing wrong to their knowledge. Perhaps you have not seen my posts, because the thread moves very fast and their are hundreds of posts.

No they did not state that

[Zurkerx]

The biased Democrats have declared Political war on President Trump and the Republicans. This is Political war started by the Democrats.

They've had it out for him since January 2017. Although to be fair the GOP did the exact same thing with Obama in 2009, albeit not to these lengths. I'd wager many more Americans would be in favor of the impeachment hearings if they weren't so blatantly political and the Dems hadn't frequently announced they were out for blood.

That's probably true though I don't think we can deny how partisan both sides have been. Undoubtedly, Trump will be impeached but not removed. However, his fragile ego will take a bruising and it's something he'll never let go. Quite honestly, him constantly talking about it is what maybe Democrats want: to distract him from talking about the Economy and other accomplishes he may have because let's face it: it doesn't take much for him to get sidetracked.

[San Lumen]

They've had it out for him since January 2017. Although to be fair the GOP did the exact same thing with Obama in 2009, albeit not to these lengths. I'd wager many more Americans would be in favor of the impeachment hearings if they weren't so blatantly political and the Dems hadn't frequently announced they were out for blood.

That's probably true though I don't think we can deny how partisan both sides have been. Undoubtedly, Trump will be impeached but not removed. However, his fragile ego will take a bruising and it's something he'll never let go. Quite honestly, him constantly talking about maybe what Democrats want: to distract him from talking about the Economy and other accomplishes he may have because let's face it: it doesn't take much for him to get sidetracked.

if support for impeachment and removal is in the mid 50 or close to 60 after the inquiry and when it comes down to the vote in the Senate it will not be good optics for Republicans and Democrats will paint them as caring about party over country.

[Gravlen]

Vindman's testimony confirmed earlier reports that Trump was given talking points suggesting he raise broad issue of corruption with Zelensky in the April call, but he did not.

White House national security advisers suggested President Donald Trump raise the broad issue of corruption in his first call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on April 21, but Trump chose not to, according to a person familiar with the matter.

One of Republicans’ central defenses in the impeachment inquiry has been that Trump cares deeply about corruption in Ukraine, which is why he asked Zelensky in July to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter's dealings with the country.

That the president did not adhere to his National Security Council’s advice to discuss corruption with Zelensky during their April call appears to undermine those claims.

Trump ignored aides' advice to raise corruption in first Zelensky call, source says

[Zurkerx]

Vindman's testimony confirmed earlier reports that Trump was given talking points suggesting he raise broad issue of corruption with Zelensky in the April call, but he did not.

White House national security advisers suggested President Donald Trump raise the broad issue of corruption in his first call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on April 21, but Trump chose not to, according to a person familiar with the matter.

One of Republicans’ central defenses in the impeachment inquiry has been that Trump cares deeply about corruption in Ukraine, which is why he asked Zelensky in July to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter's dealings with the country.

That the president did not adhere to his National Security Council’s advice to discuss corruption with Zelensky during their April call appears to undermine those claims.

Trump ignored aides' advice to raise corruption in first Zelensky call, source says

Has Trump ever cared about corruption? Let's be honest here: he only cares about it if 1. it's him being accused of corruption, which he'll adamantly will deny and 2. it's corruption involving his political opponents/enemies. The fact Trump didn't even bothered to raise the issue of corruption until later on (he did call this guy several other times so maybe between April to July he mentioned it) blows a hole into the Republican Talking Points. Not that they'll care: they'll continue to regurgitate them.

[Greater Miami Shores]

They've had it out for him since January 2017. Although to be fair the GOP did the exact same thing with Obama in 2009, albeit not to these lengths. I'd wager many more Americans would be in favor of the impeachment hearings if they weren't so blatantly political and the Dems hadn't frequently announced they were out for blood.

That's probably true though I don't think we can deny how partisan both sides have been. Undoubtedly, Trump will be impeached but not removed. However, his fragile ego will take a bruising and it's something he'll never let go. Quite honestly, him constantly talking about it is what maybe Democrats want: to distract him from talking about the Economy and other accomplishes he may have because let's face it: it doesn't take much for him to get sidetracked.

Zurkerx while you support the impeachment of President Trump by the Democrats, you seem to understand the views of us Republicans on the issue, even if you strongly disagree with us, is this correct?

[San Lumen]

That's probably true though I don't think we can deny how partisan both sides have been. Undoubtedly, Trump will be impeached but not removed. However, his fragile ego will take a bruising and it's something he'll never let go. Quite honestly, him constantly talking about it is what maybe Democrats want: to distract him from talking about the Economy and other accomplishes he may have because let's face it: it doesn't take much for him to get sidetracked.

Zurkerx while you support the impeachment of President Trump by the Democrats, you seem to understand the views of us Republicans on the issue, even if you strongly disagree with us, is this correct?

Stop using nation names if you quote their posts. It’s unnecessary.

On your post. This isn’t about understanding views. You and others ignore facts and seem to be under this notion that the military and anyone who works for the government owes the president a unwavering loyalty and any and all orders they give are to be followed without question. They don’t. The military takes an oath to the constitution not the president. government employees don’t work for the president. And cabinet members don’t take an oath to loyalty to the president either

[Zurkerx]

That's probably true though I don't think we can deny how partisan both sides have been. Undoubtedly, Trump will be impeached but not removed. However, his fragile ego will take a bruising and it's something he'll never let go. Quite honestly, him constantly talking about it is what maybe Democrats want: to distract him from talking about the Economy and other accomplishes he may have because let's face it: it doesn't take much for him to get sidetracked.

Zurkerx while you support the impeachment of President Trump by the Democrats, you seem to understand the views of us Republicans on the issue, even if you strongly disagree with us, is this correct?

I'm well aware of the views of the other side: it's my job to understand multiple sides of the issues, even if I vehemently disagree with them and the facts go against them too. I'm not exactly sure what "views" you're pointing out but I'm assuming it's he'll be impeached but not removed, which as it stands, is correct because Republicans won't remove their own President in fear of retaliation of GOP voters and their heavy reliance on Trump's political funding network.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Zurkerx while you support the impeachment of President Trump by the Democrats, you seem to understand the views of us Republicans on the issue, even if you strongly disagree with us, is this correct?

Stop using nation names if you quote their posts. It’s unnecessary.

On your post. This isn’t about understanding views. You and others ignore facts and seem to be under this notion that the military and anyone who works for the government owes the president a unwavering loyalty and any and all orders they give are to be followed without question. They don’t. The military takes an oath to the constitution not the president. government employees don’t work for the president. And cabinet members don’t take an oath to loyalty to the president either

I missed you by a few minutes, I was going to post to you the link of Ambassadors Bill Taylor and Marie Yovanovitch, I will try again later, as you might miss my post to you by the thread moving too fast. I can ask Zurkerx any questions I wish, just like you have asked me any questions you wish, and he has the option to answer me or not if he wishes, I posted his name to make sure he knows it is a question directly to him. Thank you for your post.

[San Lumen]

Stop using nation names if you quote their posts. It’s unnecessary.

On your post. This isn’t about understanding views. You and others ignore facts and seem to be under this notion that the military and anyone who works for the government owes the president a unwavering loyalty and any and all orders they give are to be followed without question. They don’t. The military takes an oath to the constitution not the president. government employees don’t work for the president. And cabinet members don’t take an oath to loyalty to the president either

I missed you by a few minutes, I was going to post to you the link of Ambassadors Bill Taylor and Marie Yovanovitch, I will try again later, as you might miss my post to you by the thread moving too fast. I can ask Zurkerx any questions I wish, and he has the option to answer me or not if he wishes, I posted his name to make sure he knows it is a question directly to him. Thank you for your post.

Once again you completely ignore what I said and there is no need to use a nation name if you quote them

[Zurkerx]

I also find it comical that the GOP held back information regarding that Vindman was offered a job to be Ukrainian Defence Minister, a position he turned down and reported to others. It seems the GOP is trying to paint Vindman as a "double agent" and attack his credibility that way, even creating sound bites for the Conservative Media. Hey, at least he was honest unlike some in the White House.

[Greater Miami Shores]

I also find it comical that the GOP held back information regarding that Vindman was offered a job to be Ukrainian Defence Minister, a position he turned down and reported to others. It seems the GOP is trying to paint Vindman as a "double agent" and attack his credibility that way, even creating sound bites for the Conservative Media. Hey, at least he was honest unlike some in the White House.

I just heard Lt Alexander Vindham say to the consul he has not met with President Trump. Honest easy question who is the consul, what is his name, is he a Democrat or a Republican, I honestly don't know? thank you for answering me this question if you wish?

[Gormwood]

Jimmy Finkelstein, the owner of The Hill, has flown under the radar. But he's played a key role in the Ukraine scandal

Beyond his relationship with Solomon, Trump, and Giuliani, Finkelstein was Solomon's direct supervisor at The Hill and created the conditions which permitted Solomon to publish his conspiratorial stories without the traditional oversight implemented at news outlets. And he has kept a watchful eye on the newspaper's coverage to ensure it is not too critical of the President.