MAGAThread XVIII: The Authority Is Total

[Bear Stearns]

Trump campaign sues Wisconson TV station for not pulling down a political AD they don’t like. Basically, it’s sound clips of Trump downplaying Covid while you watch a graph of infections increase.

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt ... a5b50.html

The variety story has a link. Exponential threat.....

https://variety.com/2020/politics/news/ ... 234578764/

I think I like this law suit as it’s a win win for us.

They are trying the usual libel/slander approach and my non-legal mind sees a problem. The only words spoken are Trump. Nobody is attacking him verbally. The burden will be on them proving the picture pained is a lie. The problem? I remember many of those comments in the early stages.

So the win-win?

The courts tell the trumpests to go pound sand obviously.

The courts rule yes you can sue over political ads! It will overload the courts as most will be frivolous. However, it will change the course of elections as we could see the end of these ads.

This is the same advert he was threatening to revoke stations' broadcast licenses for if they aired it.

Hey, FDR used to do shit like that back in the day, so there is precedent.

[Rojava Free State]

Trump campaign sues Wisconson TV station for not pulling down a political AD they don’t like. Basically, it’s sound clips of Trump downplaying Covid while you watch a graph of infections increase.

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt ... a5b50.html

The variety story has a link. Exponential threat.....

https://variety.com/2020/politics/news/ ... 234578764/

I think I like this law suit as it’s a win win for us.

They are trying the usual libel/slander approach and my non-legal mind sees a problem. The only words spoken are Trump. Nobody is attacking him verbally. The burden will be on them proving the picture pained is a lie. The problem? I remember many of those comments in the early stages.

So the win-win?

The courts tell the trumpests to go pound sand obviously.

The courts rule yes you can sue over political ads! It will overload the courts as most will be frivolous. However, it will change the course of elections as we could see the end of these ads.

Tfw we're having an election, but Trump bans the opponent from running attack ads.

Are we living in Brazil now?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

I say let's install State Shintoism. You are basically half way there already anyway.

[The East Marches II]

We are routinely told that we have to ban all evil weapons even if it saves just one life!!1! Yet you callously demand that a group the size of a WW2 field army eat shit because it's less than 1%. This akin to the stonks crowd being willing to let 2-3% of us buy the farm for the big green line. Will you personally tell them that they had to get hosed for cheap wages? How many will kill themselves or become dependent on substances in the wake of this? How many might not if they say, had one of those 140,000? Disgraceful position really. 10/10 job.




I'm surprised you had the courage to reply after having taken the coward's position that if I ignore it goes away. Go ahead and defend it. Infact, I'll even supply a post I made in another thread because I am a generous man.

Hmm? That’s a bit of a stretch for the H1B tech workers. They are paid pretty well considering.

Disney is an evil company and will do vile things like replace local workers on a whim. To suggest slave labor?....kind of a stretch.....

Paid less than American workers. Not to mention you didn't read the other article which is where the minimum wage thing is mention in media. I was using it illustrate that they will do their best kill wages for both good jobs and shitty jobs. It does not matter. The mystical shortage doesn't exist if they are bringing in replacements to be trained by the Americans before they are fired. Something I thought you used to be against anyways, even if it is a better end job.

[The East Marches II]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

I say let's install State Shintoism. You are basically half way there already anyway.

Why would we want failure? Angloism is the most successful thing around :^)

[Northern Davincia]

I say let's install State Shintoism. You are basically half way there already anyway.

Why would we want failure? Angloism is the most successful thing around :^)

You may have your day in the sun when the Anglo learns how to cook.

[Spirit of Hope]

Neither the supply nor the demand for jobs is fixed, so a simple supply/demand model fails in the labor market. Which again ignore the fact that 140,000 is less than 1% of 22,000,000.

We are routinely told that we have to ban all evil weapons even if it saves just one life!!1! Yet you callously demand that a group the size of a WW2 field army eat shit because it's less than 1%. This akin to the stonks crowd being willing to let 2-3% of us buy the farm for the big green line. Will you personally tell them that they had to get hosed for cheap wages? How many will kill themselves or become dependent on substances in the wake of this? How many might not if they say, had one of those 140,000? Disgraceful position really. 10/10 job.

Please don't resort to strawman here.

First I have never argued for an "evil weapons" ban, if you look at my posting history you would find I'm actually a bid proponent of the 2nd Amendment.

Second I never said that a group of people should eat shit, again the labor market is complex market and adding immigrants to it doesn't take away jobs from citizens. I find the people arguing to reopen the US at this time to be rather stupid, so please don't compare me to them.

Third I could flip your argument around, how many of those 140,000 immigrants "Will you personally tell them that they had to get hosed for cheap wages? How many will kill themselves or become dependent on substances in the wake of this? How many might not if they say, had one of those 140,000?" All because they had to starve in their home countries instead of come to the land of the free /sarcasm.

Immigration is a complex issue, but saying that immigrants who come to the US take jobs from US citizens leading to US citizens dying is false. Have some sources to show what I mean.

I'm still waiting for evidence of Disney using this supposed slave labor in the US.

I'm surprised you had the courage to reply after having taken the coward's position that if I ignore it goes away. Go ahead and defend it. Infact, I'll even supply a post I made in another thread because I am a generous man.

The current system for those visas is beyond broken. I had a Turkish friend whose sister was sent to "learn" English at Disney World. She was kept in a virtual prison in a spartan dormitory and her "English" job training for this university educated young woman was working $3 an hour in a burger joint at that place. Do you think they used English in the backroom? No, they simply parroted enough phrases to sell a burger and spoke Turkish the rest.

Again,k please refrain from personal attacks. If I missed a post from you that previously explained your position I apologize, but this is a fast moving thread and I can't see everything.

Ok we have three separate issues here.

First we have a temporary job visa program that appears to lack regulatory oversight, second the issue of hiring some immigrants to take the place of some of their workforce, and third an anecdote.

Certainly I will agree that the J-1 Visa program appears to need more oversight, though the article linked doesn't give me any solid numbers on what % of the population is being abused. Probably because such numbers don't exist. Calling this slave labor however is a stretch, there temporary jobs and still required to pay minimum wage. Yes it has been abused, but the abuse largely appears to have been illegal which requires that more oversight be put, not that the program itself is broken.

For the second point, yes some jobs may be replaced by immigrants or by outsourcing, however as I have previously noted the number of jobs in the US economy isn't fixed. Across the US economy immigrants don't take jobs from US citizens, again because there aren't a fixed number of jobs.

I can't really an anecdote. I'll certainly agree that the US immigration system is broken, and that far better government oversight should be in place against large corporations and how they treat their employees. But I heavily disagree that immigrants steal American jobs or that we should stop allowing immigration to better improve the US economy after the end of the Covid lock down.

[Gormwood]

Why would we want failure? Angloism is the most successful thing around :^)

You may have your day in the sun when the Anglo learns how to cook.

If they gun boil they could at least use seasonings.

[Cisairse]

When confronted with evidence against your position, it's generally considered poor form to batter down and restate your thesis because you feel it should be true.

Whats the point in the current situation to ship in more fugees? Like the world is imploding and theres millions upon millions of people out of work now.

Save American lives by replacing essential workers with immigrants

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Trump campaign sues Wisconson TV station for not pulling down a political AD they don’t like. Basically, it’s sound clips of Trump downplaying Covid while you watch a graph of infections increase.

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt ... a5b50.html

The variety story has a link. Exponential threat.....

https://variety.com/2020/politics/news/ ... 234578764/

I think I like this law suit as it’s a win win for us.

They are trying the usual libel/slander approach and my non-legal mind sees a problem. The only words spoken are Trump. Nobody is attacking him verbally. The burden will be on them proving the picture pained is a lie. The problem? I remember many of those comments in the early stages.

So the win-win?

The courts tell the trumpests to go pound sand obviously.

The courts rule yes you can sue over political ads! It will overload the courts as most will be frivolous. However, it will change the course of elections as we could see the end of these ads.

Sounds like a win win. But I still think it's a dumb lawsuit from a bunch of paper skinned people. Trumpests should just get thiccer skin smh.

[Gormwood]

Trump campaign sues Wisconson TV station for not pulling down a political AD they don’t like. Basically, it’s sound clips of Trump downplaying Covid while you watch a graph of infections increase.

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt ... a5b50.html

The variety story has a link. Exponential threat.....

https://variety.com/2020/politics/news/ ... 234578764/

I think I like this law suit as it’s a win win for us.

They are trying the usual libel/slander approach and my non-legal mind sees a problem. The only words spoken are Trump. Nobody is attacking him verbally. The burden will be on them proving the picture pained is a lie. The problem? I remember many of those comments in the early stages.

So the win-win?

The courts tell the trumpests to go pound sand obviously.

The courts rule yes you can sue over political ads! It will overload the courts as most will be frivolous. However, it will change the course of elections as we could see the end of these ads.

Sounds like a win win. But I still think it's a dumb lawsuit from a bunch of paper skinned people. Trumpests should just get thiccer skin smh.

Long term spray tan exposure damages the epidermis

[The East Marches II]

We are routinely told that we have to ban all evil weapons even if it saves just one life!!1! Yet you callously demand that a group the size of a WW2 field army eat shit because it's less than 1%. This akin to the stonks crowd being willing to let 2-3% of us buy the farm for the big green line. Will you personally tell them that they had to get hosed for cheap wages? How many will kill themselves or become dependent on substances in the wake of this? How many might not if they say, had one of those 140,000? Disgraceful position really. 10/10 job.

Please don't resort to strawman here.

First I have never argued for an "evil weapons" ban, if you look at my posting history you would find I'm actually a bid proponent of the 2nd Amendment.

Second I never said that a group of people should eat shit, again the labor market is complex market and adding immigrants to it doesn't take away jobs from citizens. I find the people arguing to reopen the US at this time to be rather stupid, so please don't compare me to them.

Third I could flip your argument around, how many of those 140,000 immigrants "Will you personally tell them that they had to get hosed for cheap wages? How many will kill themselves or become dependent on substances in the wake of this? How many might not if they say, had one of those 140,000?" All because they had to starve in their home countries instead of come to the land of the free /sarcasm.

Immigration is a complex issue, but saying that immigrants who come to the US take jobs from US citizens leading to US citizens dying is false. Have some sources to show what I mean.

I apologize, I mistook you for one of the usual of the bleeding heart crowd. You're right I would tell them that one by one to their face. A country's duty is to look after it's own. If you wish to live in an economic zone devoid of any national duties or understanding, might I recommend the free trade area of Germany?

On its face that's wrong because I just provided a story where that exact thing happened. Lost jobs destroy mental health and lead to dependency. I've just BTFO'd those studies by mentioning only one front.

I'm surprised you had the courage to reply after having taken the coward's position that if I ignore it goes away. Go ahead and defend it. Infact, I'll even supply a post I made in another thread because I am a generous man.

Again,k please refrain from personal attacks. If I missed a post from you that previously explained your position I apologize, but this is a fast moving thread and I can't see everything.

Ok we have three separate issues here.

First we have a temporary job visa program that appears to lack regulatory oversight, second the issue of hiring some immigrants to take the place of some of their workforce, and third an anecdote.

Certainly I will agree that the J-1 Visa program appears to need more oversight, though the article linked doesn't give me any solid numbers on what % of the population is being abused. Probably because such numbers don't exist. Calling this slave labor however is a stretch, there temporary jobs and still required to pay minimum wage. Yes it has been abused, but the abuse largely appears to have been illegal which requires that more oversight be put, not that the program itself is broken.

For the second point, yes some jobs may be replaced by immigrants or by outsourcing, however as I have previously noted the number of jobs in the US economy isn't fixed. Across the US economy immigrants don't take jobs from US citizens, again because there aren't a fixed number of jobs.

I can't really an anecdote. I'll certainly agree that the US immigration system is broken, and that far better government oversight should be in place against large corporations and how they treat their employees. But I heavily disagree that immigrants steal American jobs or that we should stop allowing immigration to better improve the US economy after the end of the Covid lock down.

Yes but it turns out to be nothing once room, board and expenses are factored in which Mickey Mouse nicely deducts from your check. Even more, as """students""" they are entitled to a minimum wage under the national. Not the minimum wage. Try to be a bit more honest. You admit the article is right then whine it doesn't give you exact specifics. If I were to post anti-immigration work studies as you just spammed out, you would say they aren't valid. Nothing apparently will meet your strict standard, not even the truth! The Disney example has the evidence that this does infact happen. I can find lots of others ones if you would like too. Sticking your head in the ground and pretending as if this doesn't happen doesn't make it suddenly go away. You hand wave it away with things not being fixed, ok but your promises never materialize. They don't work. We tried your way for 30 years and got a country that can't even make faces masks, why would we keep reinforcing failure?

[The Black Forrest]

Hmm? That’s a bit of a stretch for the H1B tech workers. They are paid pretty well considering.

Disney is an evil company and will do vile things like replace local workers on a whim. To suggest slave labor?....kind of a stretch.....

Paid less than American workers. Not to mention you didn't read the other article which is where the minimum wage thing is mention in media. I was using it illustrate that they will do their best kill wages for both good jobs and shitty jobs. It does not matter. The mystical shortage doesn't exist if they are bringing in replacements to be trained by the Americans before they are fired. Something I thought you used to be against anyways, even if it is a better end job.

My only experience has been the tech side. What I have seen is they are paid less then the natives. What makes them exciting to the free marketers is you don’t have to include all the extras like retirement/benefits/etc.

I am against H1B simply because what it’s been corrupted into. Replacing natives. Originally, it was a way to get missing knowledge....then again that might have always been a lie told by the free market types.

[The Black Forrest]

This is the same advert he was threatening to revoke stations' broadcast licenses for if they aired it.

Hey, FDR used to do shit like that back in the day, so there is precedent.

Source?

[The Black Forrest]

Hmm? That’s a bit of a stretch for the H1B tech workers. They are paid pretty well considering.

Compared to native-born American college graduates, no they aren't. That's why tech companies love them so much.

Well? The same can be said of female pay as well.

Didn’t say they were paid equally; just saying better then what was implied.

You have some swag of the differences? Where I am it’s not like I was say making 100K and my associate was making 60K for the same job.....

[Farnhamia]

Compared to native-born American college graduates, no they aren't. That's why tech companies love them so much.

Well? The same can be said of female pay as well.

Didn’t say they were paid equally; just saying better then what was implied.

You have some swag of the differences? Where I am it’s not like I was say making 100K and my associate was making 60K for the same job.....

Women don't have the upper-body strength to do real programming. *nodnod*

[Spirit of Hope]

Please don't resort to strawman here.

First I have never argued for an "evil weapons" ban, if you look at my posting history you would find I'm actually a bid proponent of the 2nd Amendment.

Second I never said that a group of people should eat shit, again the labor market is complex market and adding immigrants to it doesn't take away jobs from citizens. I find the people arguing to reopen the US at this time to be rather stupid, so please don't compare me to them.

Third I could flip your argument around, how many of those 140,000 immigrants "Will you personally tell them that they had to get hosed for cheap wages? How many will kill themselves or become dependent on substances in the wake of this? How many might not if they say, had one of those 140,000?" All because they had to starve in their home countries instead of come to the land of the free /sarcasm.

Immigration is a complex issue, but saying that immigrants who come to the US take jobs from US citizens leading to US citizens dying is false. Have some sources to show what I mean.

I apologize, I mistook you for one of the usual of the bleeding heart crowd. You're right I would tell them that one by one to their face. A country's duty is to look after it's own. If you wish to live in an economic zone devoid of any national duties or understanding, might I recommend the free trade area of Germany?

On its face that's wrong because I just provided a story where that exact thing happened. Lost jobs destroy mental health and lead to dependency. I've just BTFO'd those studies by mentioning only one front.

Your article doesn't prove your point. Yes immigrants replaced some workers at a specific job, but those workers might have instead been replaced by teenagers willing to work for less or people who are less qualified, etc. Even in a perfectly healthy economy people loose jobs for all kinds of reasons, what those studies show is that on aggregate immigration doesn't "steal" jobs from Americans, but instead that immigrants are a vital part of our economy.

Again,k please refrain from personal attacks. If I missed a post from you that previously explained your position I apologize, but this is a fast moving thread and I can't see everything.

Ok we have three separate issues here.

First we have a temporary job visa program that appears to lack regulatory oversight, second the issue of hiring some immigrants to take the place of some of their workforce, and third an anecdote.

Certainly I will agree that the J-1 Visa program appears to need more oversight, though the article linked doesn't give me any solid numbers on what % of the population is being abused. Probably because such numbers don't exist. Calling this slave labor however is a stretch, there temporary jobs and still required to pay minimum wage. Yes it has been abused, but the abuse largely appears to have been illegal which requires that more oversight be put, not that the program itself is broken.

For the second point, yes some jobs may be replaced by immigrants or by outsourcing, however as I have previously noted the number of jobs in the US economy isn't fixed. Across the US economy immigrants don't take jobs from US citizens, again because there aren't a fixed number of jobs.

I can't really an anecdote. I'll certainly agree that the US immigration system is broken, and that far better government oversight should be in place against large corporations and how they treat their employees. But I heavily disagree that immigrants steal American jobs or that we should stop allowing immigration to better improve the US economy after the end of the Covid lock down.

Yes but it turns out to be nothing once room, board and expenses are factored in which Mickey Mouse nicely deducts from your check. Even more, as """students""" they are entitled to a minimum wage under the national. Not the minimum wage. Try to be a bit more honest. You admit the article is right then whine it doesn't give you exact specifics. If I were to post anti-immigration work studies as you just spammed out, you would say they aren't valid. Nothing apparently will meet your strict standard, not even the truth! The Disney example has the evidence that this does infact happen. I can find lots of others ones if you would like too. Sticking your head in the ground and pretending as if this doesn't happen doesn't make it suddenly go away. You hand wave it away with things not being fixed, ok but your promises never materialize. They don't work. We tried your way for 30 years and got a country that can't even make faces masks, why would we keep reinforcing failure?

Students making under minimum wage is a separate issue from immigration, though it is again an issue I largely agree on you with, it is a problem that corporations can use the student exemption to pay less than the minimum wage.

I'm not whining that the article doesn't give me the data I want, I'm pointing out it is hard to make an informed decision with out the information you need.

Again your article doesn't say that immigrants are taking jobs across the whole US economy, but that specific cases of it happen. You are far more likely to loose your job because of normal economic activity than because immigrants replaced you. A comparison can be made to Trump's talking point about violent illegal immigrants: do some illegal immigrants commit violent crimes, yes, but the vast majority don't, studies again show they commit violent crimes at a lower rate than American citizens. Similarly, immigrants may take some jobs, but they don't have a negative effect across the whole economy.

If you present any studies that show that immigrants do lead to a net loss of jobs for Americans I would certainly take a look at them, I try not to denounce things as invalid without a reason for doing so. If you have a problem with my studies please be specific about how they are wrong.

Stopping immigration would be a terrible idea, the US has a birth rate under 2 and an aging population, without immigration our economy would implode.

[Galloism]

the US has a birth rate under 2 and an aging population, without immigration our economy would implode.

I know this is barely related, but we need to do something about this really really soon.

[Gormwood]

the US has a birth rate under 2 and an aging population, without immigration our economy would implode.

I know this is barely related, but we need to do something about this really really soon.

Take a page from Hungary and give tax incentives to women who breed like rabbits?

[Farnhamia]

I know this is barely related, but we need to do something about this really really soon.

Take a page from Hungary and give tax incentives to women who breed like rabbits?

We already do give deductions for children.

[Galloism]

I know this is barely related, but we need to do something about this really really soon.

Take a page from Hungary and give tax incentives to women who breed like rabbits?

I mean, something like that is not a terrible idea.

I wouldn't go as far as Hungary, but one of our critical problems is that having a child is really expensive and people don't feel like they can hack the cost until they're financially secure, and then they're old enough they have trouble having kids - struggling to have one instead of easily having three. We really need to explicitly subsidize having children much more than we already do, and try to make it so parents don't have to worry that they're not financially secure enough to have kids, and wind up putting it off until it's almost too late.

[Farnhamia]

Take a page from Hungary and give tax incentives to women who breed like rabbits?

I mean, something like that is not a terrible idea.

I wouldn't go as far as Hungary, but one of our critical problems is that having a child is really expensive and people don't feel like they can hack the cost until they're financially secure, and then they're old enough they have trouble having kids - struggling to have one instead of easily having three. We really need to explicitly subsidize having children much more than we already do, and try to make it so parents don't have to worry that they're not financially secure enough to have kids, and wind up putting it off until it's almost too late.

That sounds suspiciously like socialism, pardner. Who wouldn't be one of them pinkos, now would you?

[Gormwood]

Take a page from Hungary and give tax incentives to women who breed like rabbits?

I mean, something like that is not a terrible idea.

I wouldn't go as far as Hungary, but one of our critical problems is that having a child is really expensive and people don't feel like they can hack the cost until they're financially secure, and then they're old enough they have trouble having kids - struggling to have one instead of easily having three. We really need to explicitly subsidize having children much more than we already do, and try to make it so parents don't have to worry that they're not financially secure enough to have kids, and wind up putting it off until it's almost too late.

Hilarious given how Republicans invoke the image of Welfare Queens popping out children like goldfish to get more of That Sweet Gubmint Munny.

[Galloism]

I mean, something like that is not a terrible idea.

I wouldn't go as far as Hungary, but one of our critical problems is that having a child is really expensive and people don't feel like they can hack the cost until they're financially secure, and then they're old enough they have trouble having kids - struggling to have one instead of easily having three. We really need to explicitly subsidize having children much more than we already do, and try to make it so parents don't have to worry that they're not financially secure enough to have kids, and wind up putting it off until it's almost too late.

That sounds suspiciously like socialism, pardner. Who wouldn't be one of them pinkos, now would you?

Probably.

I mean, something like that is not a terrible idea.

I wouldn't go as far as Hungary, but one of our critical problems is that having a child is really expensive and people don't feel like they can hack the cost until they're financially secure, and then they're old enough they have trouble having kids - struggling to have one instead of easily having three. We really need to explicitly subsidize having children much more than we already do, and try to make it so parents don't have to worry that they're not financially secure enough to have kids, and wind up putting it off until it's almost too late.

Hilarious given how Republicans invoke the image of Welfare Queens popping out children like goldfish to get more of That Sweet Gubmint Munny.

Is that really so terrible given our birth rate? That's a serious question btw - not a meme.

Is it really so terrible for people to have children and raise them as professional parents, given we have a collapsing population?

[Gormwood]

Hilarious given how Republicans invoke the image of Welfare Queens popping out children like goldfish to get more of That Sweet Gubmint Munny.

Is that really so terrible given our birth rate? That's a serious question btw - not a meme.

Is it really so terrible for people to have children and raise them as professional parents, given we have a collapsing population?

Not going to howl about how giving women financial incentives to machine gun kids out of their crotches is secksism?