MAGAThread XVIII: The Authority Is Total

[Spirit of Hope]

When confronted with evidence against your position, it's generally considered poor form to batter down and restate your thesis because you feel it should be true.

Whats the point in the current situation to ship in more fugees? Like the world is imploding and theres millions upon millions of people out of work now.

1) The discussion isn't about shipping in lots of new refugees but about President Trump blocking any more legal immigration.
2) Immigrants aren't going to be the major hindrance to the unemployed getting jobs. Immigration doesn't reduce the number of jobs and there aren't enough immigrants to present an issue even if they did. See 22 million unemployed and 140,000 employment based green cards a year.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

When confronted with evidence against your position, it's generally considered poor form to batter down and restate your thesis because you feel it should be true.

Whats the point in the current situation to ship in more fugees? Like the world is imploding and theres millions upon millions of people out of work now.

Wait, are you talking about immigrants or refugees? Because those two groups are vastly different, they come in for very different reasons, and they have very different effects on the job market.

[Nakena]

Whats the point in the current situation to ship in more fugees? Like the world is imploding and theres millions upon millions of people out of work now.

You'll note that the position "we shouldn't close the border to immigration, because the border is already basically closed to international travel and preventing people from applying for visas would solve literally nothing" and "we should actively encourage immigration right now" are not the same position. Your equivalence is false and that's no good.

And again, there's no evidence that legal immigration reduces economic opportunity for the native population. Besides, for millions of those Americans, the jobs are still there and are likely to be rehired after the situation settles.

No it makes no sense to push people from one sinking ship onto another really at this point. It's in fact all pointless. It's the Phantom Debate. Shots fired in the dark. Non-existent political points and ghost divisions moved across post apocalyptic wastelands.

[Valrifell]

You'll note that the position "we shouldn't close the border to immigration, because the border is already basically closed to international travel and preventing people from applying for visas would solve literally nothing" and "we should actively encourage immigration right now" are not the same position. Your equivalence is false and that's no good.

And again, there's no evidence that legal immigration reduces economic opportunity for the native population. Besides, for millions of those Americans, the jobs are still there and are likely to be rehired after the situation settles.

No it makes no sense to push people from one sinking ship onto another really at this point. It's in fact all pointless. It's the Phantom Debate. Shots fired in the dark. Non-existent political points and ghost divisions moved across post apocalyptic wastelands.

So now that your position has been revealed to be based on false pretenses, you're calling the debate pointless now?

Nobody is advocating for pushing, again that requires someone to have an active position which none of us are actually advocating for. The position that you (were?) arguing against is passively maintaining the status quo with regards to immigration. You can't just put him this nihilistic front when confronted.

[Bear Stearns]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

[Vassenor]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

Constitution says no.

[Loben The 2nd]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

Constitution says no.

We can always change that tbh.

[Rojava Free State]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

Is this fr?

[Proctopeo]

Constitution says no.

We can always change that tbh.

We shouldn't undermine the First Amendment, let the crybabies make an ass of themselves doing that instead

[Gormwood]

Constitution says no.

We can always change that tbh.

So you want the U.S. to be just like Iran, only Protestant.

[Loben The 2nd]

We can always change that tbh.

We shouldn't undermine the First Amendment, let the crybabies make an ass of themselves doing that instead

Oh we shouldn’t but the political class will undermine it like they do the rest of our civil liberties, we can no longer afford to be civil with these people anyhow.

[Loben The 2nd]

We can always change that tbh.

So you want the U.S. to be just like Iran, only Protestant.

Brilliant reading comprehension, Petra.

[Valrifell]

Why the fuck do you insist on feeding his threadjacks

[Bear Stearns]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

Is this fr?

Do you believe I am serious?

[Nakena]

So now that your position has been revealed to be based on false pretenses, you're calling the debate pointless now?

Nobody is advocating for pushing, again that requires someone to have an active position which none of us are actually advocating for. The position that you (were?) arguing against is passively maintaining the status quo with regards to immigration. You can't just put him this nihilistic front when confronted.

Theres still pushing, in Europe for example, people for the refugee and immigration issue. Even when it has been rendered totally into absurdistani terretory as of now. Like Trump is doing the same just in the opposite directions. Thats what I meant with shots fired in the dark and phantom debates. It just it's about no-issues. I don't think either there will be a Disney land anymore. it will be like, you know, visiting the post-apocalyptic remains of an amuseland park in fallout.

My position? You never asked me what my position actually is. Thats the first time you mention it.

My view is really that the US have, at least temporarily, stopped being a coordinated entity and descended into a zone of dissolution and uncertainity. The petty conflicts of yesterday may not matter in the future, yet some constants do remain.

The wise one should wait and do what in its power and influence to reduce human suffering in this grave times.

[Gormwood]

So you want the U.S. to be just like Iran, only Protestant.

Brilliant reading comprehension, Petra.

Actually yes.

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

Constitution says no.

Constitution says no.

We can always change that tbh.

Sure reads like you want to change the Constitution to impose a religious qualification for office.

[Bear Stearns]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

Constitution says no.

The predestined only follow God's law.

[The East Marches II]

I'm sure this has not occured to you because it isn't in your worldview to even grasp, we have now 22 million and counting suddenly unemployed. Inviting people here to compete for wages is insane at the moment. I can only hope he screws Disney and the Tech firms on the visas they need for slave labor too. Unfortunately most of those are already approved but they don't have to be re-upped :^)

It is entirely coherent. You just can't think in terms of interest of a country.

You could have made this point without ad hominem attacks, and it would have been stronger, yet you seem to insist on biting attacks even when entirely unecessary.

With regards to your point: they are not coming here 'at the moment', because you might have noticed that international travel has been halted almost entirely. There is no need for the executive order. All that is for when international travel becomes a possibility again. Those 22 million people will largely be employed again, because this is not a sustained jobloss.

There are actual policies that might help those without jobs. Enforced paid sick leave, for instance, or other labour protections would massively limit the number of unemployed people, because all this is, is 22 million counts of 'leave until further notice'. Perhaps provide for stronger unions to fight for those labour rights. All of that does far more good for American workers than limiting the small amount of foreign people that can come in at any time. Once they legally immigrate, those people are Americans too, after all.

Biting attacks? The truth my boy is never an attack!

International travel has not been totally halted in the United States at the moment. We still have transit between non-mass infected places.

You're right on mass sick leave and labor protections. Too bad Bill stabbed us all in the back with those welfare reforms! Alas as well Mrs. Pelosi shot down UBI and has said the current situation does not require the return of the house as she showed off her ice cream collection on TV. That being said, if we want to get them back into work faster, Trump's method is one those he can use without going full dictator and declaring a state of exception. If one can supply cheap labor, one has no reason to pay domestic wages. If you increase the labor supply, you will decrease wages. They aren't Americans thus our government does not have the same duties or responsibilities towards them that it does its own. I'd personally like to have seen the Tech industry brutalized for it's use of cartel wage fixing. No luck! They got a pass from Obama and Trump won't make their lives hell (partially because fine gentlemen like you will scream it's politically motivated).

[Loben The 2nd]

Brilliant reading comprehension, Petra.

Actually yes.

We can always change that tbh.

Sure reads like you want to change the Constitution to impose a religious qualification for office.

Uh-huh, have you ever considered that the little voice in the back of your head telling you this could be wrong?

[The East Marches II]

Whats the point in the current situation to ship in more fugees? Like the world is imploding and theres millions upon millions of people out of work now.

1) The discussion isn't about shipping in lots of new refugees but about President Trump blocking any more legal immigration.
2) Immigrants aren't going to be the major hindrance to the unemployed getting jobs. Immigration doesn't reduce the number of jobs and there aren't enough immigrants to present an issue even if they did. See 22 million unemployed and 140,000 employment based green cards a year.

You don't believe in supply and demand anymore? Oh boy this is gonna be really good!

[The East Marches II]

I want to be clear about this, you mean that using people who make less than $3 at Disney World on visas doesn't mean that a general citizen won't make minimum wage because the slave labor visa is much more profitable? Please make sure this is the argument you wish to proceed with.

When confronted with evidence against your position, it's generally considered poor form to batter down and restate your thesis because you feel it should be true.

What evidence? Please point out where my point was refuted. Or better yet, you can explain why slave labor doesn't apparently impact the real economy or wages for normal workers. Go on Vari, I'm waiting with bated breath. I know you can do it :^)

[The East Marches II]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

Based and extremely redpilled

[Nakena]

Whats the point in the current situation to ship in more fugees? Like the world is imploding and theres millions upon millions of people out of work now.

1) The discussion isn't about shipping in lots of new refugees but about President Trump blocking any more legal immigration.
2) Immigrants aren't going to be the major hindrance to the unemployed getting jobs. Immigration doesn't reduce the number of jobs and there aren't enough immigrants to present an issue even if they did. See 22 million unemployed and 140,000 employment based green cards a year.

Whats the point of shipping in immigrants at this point but ideological posturing?

[Loben The 2nd]

Only Reformed Protestants, Calvinists, and low church Episcopalians should be allowed to run for office. And no, Baptists and Methodists don't count.

Based and extremely redpilled

What about Anglicans?

[Vassenor]

Constitution says no.

The predestined only follow God's law.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.