Future of a Divided America

[San Montalbano]

Thats fine

Incidentally, it probably won't be in our lifetimes.

Meh we shall see

[Kowani]

America. Freedom for the rich, and everyone else can get fucked.

That’s true, if only in that he’s too incompetent to do that.

I never understand how the President simultaneously can be an idiot who does not know what he is doing and an evil mastermind who deliberately is ruining the country and conniving with foreign entities.

Think of Doctor Doofenshmirtz.

I’m sure this explanation will be good.

It is simple, really. The Left is based on egalitarianism, which is a revolt against the nature of mankind since each person is different. In its impossible quest for “equality,” it attacks the social and economic fabric of the country, and in doing so it leads to its destruction, since its goal is unattainable and contrary to reality.

So, we have multiple problems. The first is that you conflate every single leftist tendency into one monolith, which is beyond inaccurate. (And knowing how conservatives are wont to do, you probably conflated Liberals with Leftists.) Your next flaw is assuming that there exists such a thing as human nature, as well as a catastrophic misunderstanding of leftist thought in general. Additionally, your entire argument is based on the naturalistic fallacy.

Explain to me why you think the Right is ruining the country.

Climate change, doing nothing about income inequality and stagnant wages, a constant support for western interventionism, their complete and total failure to confront racism and discrimination, failing to uphold their own promises, the fear of immigration…

Progression is quite literally inevitable, the only question is what shape it shall take. Nope.

It is socialism where money is taken unjustly from the labor of others, since ultimately it amounts to stealing others’ property

Firstly, it’s not stealing-theft is illegal by definition, and in a socialist country, it would not be theft, as the capitalist class would not own the means of production. (Also, Money isn’t taken from anyone, since it’s been abolished.)

and forcing them to do things against their will.

“Work or starve” (capitalism) is just as coercive as socialism.

In true laissez-faire capitalism, which is not the system we have today, businessmen profit by offering the workers the security of a wage in exchange for taking on the risk of the goods or services being sold below cost, or not at all, for providing the workers with capital to actually produce the goods or services in question, and for having to wait until the good actually is sold to earn money, whereas workers receive payment regularly upon completion of work.

Since this mutually benefits both the workers, who have less uncertainty and greater productivity, and the capitalist, who can utilize the workers’ labor to better satisfy consumer demand, it occurs voluntarily and without injustice to either party.

This would be good if it actually worked that way. Rather, what actually happens is the capitalist class locks wages and prices, oligopolizing a market and leaving everyone at their mercy.

[Tombradyonia]

The very fact that healthcare for all is considered “radically left-wing” or revolutionary shows how twisted to the right America is.

You'd think that the "pro-life" types would be all for healthcare-for-all. After all, isn't their schtick that all life is precious and we should do anything to preserve it? But it seems that with many on the right, it only applies to the "unborn" because once you're born, the right wing says you're on your own.

[Deacarsia]

The very fact that healthcare for all is considered “radically left-wing” or revolutionary shows how twisted to the right America is.

You'd think that the "pro-life" types would be all for healthcare-for-all. After all, isn't their schtick that all life is precious and we should do anything to preserve it? But it seems that with many on the right, it only applies to the "unborn" because once you're born, the right wing says you're on your own.

There is a difference between actively taking a life and using the State to force people to support others. I strongly support private charity to help the unfortunate, but I will not force others to do so. “Healthcare for all” also does not work, because it goes against the laws of economics, so I therefore oppose it; whereas I oppose abortion, because it is equivalent to murder.

I easily could ask you why it is all right to force people to pay for others’ healthcare expenses but not fine to prevent a woman from murdering her unborn child.

[Deacarsia]

Kowani, how does economic calculation work without money or private ownership of the means of production?

[Deacarsia]

Is it not interesting that this forum is about the future of a country strongly divided along political lines, yet this very forum itself likewise is divided?

[Kowani]

“Healthcare for all” also does not work, because it goes against the laws of economics, so I therefore oppose it;

The vast majority of the developed world disagrees.

Kowani, how does economic calculation work without money or private ownership of the means of production?

Public ownership of the means of production. Further elaboration kinda depends on what type of socialism is put in place.

[San Montalbano]

This mainstream Breitbart article the second most mainstream right wing news source shows civil war is inevitable and it's the right who are the problem by calling for genocide of other ethnicities under the guise of protecting them from "anti-whiteness".

I wonder what could make them believe such things, it couldnt possibly be marxists saying that white people are evil colonizers on stolen land.

[Bienenhalde]

This hypothetical is, errr, far fetched? Even if the Republicans somehow managed to create some one-party state, do you really think us liberals would have the balls to secede? Trust me, we wouldn't, the American Left is fucking weak at this juncture, it's embarrassing.

The military is something like 90% conservative, and liberals will without fail kowtow to fascism. Sorry fam, it's a nonstarter.

Except because the country is so divided, when states in a different region of the country that are culturally different secede, I am not sure anyone would care enough to start a war over it anyway.

[Kaystein]

Everybody dies, the end.

[Kernen]

This mainstream Breitbart article the second most mainstream right wing news source shows civil war is inevitable and it's the right who are the problem by calling for genocide of other ethnicities under the guise of protecting them from "anti-whiteness".

I wonder what could make them believe such things, it couldnt possibly be marxists saying that white people are evil colonizers on stolen land.

Not even remotely exclusive to Marxism.

[San Montalbano]

I wonder what could make them believe such things, it couldnt possibly be marxists saying that white people are evil colonizers on stolen land.

Not even remotely exclusive to Marxism.

It dosnt need to be, woke neoliberalism is a fine synthetic substitute

[Kernen]

Not even remotely exclusive to Marxism.

It dosnt need to be, woke neoliberalism is a fine synthetic substitute

Also not a good argument, since neoliberalism as a theory is notoriously ill-defined. Not only are the tenants hard to nail down, they're hard to nail down when used in an economic capacity as well as in a political capacity. Given that, your accusation seems contrived. At best.

[Rojava Free State]

America. Freedom for the rich, and everyone else can get fucked.

That’s true, if only in that he’s too incompetent to do that.

I never understand how the President simultaneously can be an idiot who does not know what he is doing and an evil mastermind who deliberately is ruining the country and conniving with foreign entities.

Or he's an idiot that an evil mastermind or group of them is using

Of course you never thought of that

[San Montalbano]

I never understand how the President simultaneously can be an idiot who does not know what he is doing and an evil mastermind who deliberately is ruining the country and conniving with foreign entities.

Or he's an idiot that an evil mastermind or group of them is using

Of course you never thought of that

“Grabs popcorn”

Let keep this james bond shit rolling

[Rojava Free State]

This mainstream Breitbart article the second most mainstream right wing news source shows civil war is inevitable and it's the right who are the problem by calling for genocide of other ethnicities under the guise of protecting them from "anti-whiteness".

I wonder what could make them believe such things, it couldnt possibly be marxists saying that white people are evil colonizers on stolen land.

#1 anti white racism is not a core tenant of communism at all and communism was in fact created by a white man

#2 anti white racism doesn't justify genocide against people of color.

[San Montalbano]

I wonder what could make them believe such things, it couldnt possibly be marxists saying that white people are evil colonizers on stolen land.

#1 anti white racism is not a core tenant of communism at all and communism was in fact created by a white man

#2 anti white racism doesn't justify genocide against people of color.

Right on both accounts

Its not straight up communism, but stoking racial flames is part of cultural marxism and the opressed/opresser tactics they employ, its simply a means to an end, and the end justifys the means

[West Leas Oros 2]

#1 anti white racism is not a core tenant of communism at all and communism was in fact created by a white man

#2 anti white racism doesn't justify genocide against people of color.

Right on both accounts

Its not straight up communism, but stoking racial flames is part of cultural marxism and the opressed/opresser tactics they employ, its simply a means to an end, and the end justifys the means

No, it isn't. None of what you just said has any basis in Marxist theory. What you just said is, as the Santa Claus impersonator himself would say, UNDIALECTICAL.

[New yugoslavaia]

Right on both accounts

Its not straight up communism, but stoking racial flames is part of cultural marxism and the opressed/opresser tactics they employ, its simply a means to an end, and the end justifys the means

No, it isn't. None of what you just said has any basis in Marxist theory. What you just said is, as the Santa Claus impersonator himself would say, UNDIALECTICAL.

Well, it does come from this "theory"...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism

[The East Marches II]

This mainstream Breitbart article the second most mainstream right wing news source shows civil war is inevitable and it's the right who are the problem by calling for genocide of other ethnicities under the guise of protecting them from "anti-whiteness".

Did you read what you posted?

[San Montalbano]

This mainstream Breitbart article the second most mainstream right wing news source shows civil war is inevitable and it's the right who are the problem by calling for genocide of other ethnicities under the guise of protecting them from "anti-whiteness".

Did you read what you posted?

If white supremacists had half the power the left-wing claims they have, there wouldnt be anymore left-wingers

[Isles of Metanoia]

Let's say that in the future political freedom in the US just keeps deteriorating eventually becoming a hyper capitalist defacto Republican one party state with freedom of speech being abolished with widespread gerrymandering and voter suppression looking like Hungary or Turkey.

The thing is, due to demographic change, it's very unlikely that we'll get very many Republican POTUSes after Trump. Say what you will about whether he'll get in when 2020 rolls around, but in the 2024 election and going forwards I don't see the 50-50 left-right split continuing for very long. Generally speaking, Asians, Hispanics, PoC, Pacific Islanders - basically any other ethnic group besides US European Whites votes for the left, so as whites become the minority, which is predicted to happen in the next few decades, the country will swing further left.

Now, assuming the constitution stays intact for the foreseeable future (ie. Trump's presidency and maybe one more Republican and Democrat after him) any decay in the realm of what you speak of will definitely be bi-partisan. It will be a corporatist-run degradation of rights, not the "Republican" or "Democratic" parties. It will likely be the entire establishment on both sides deciding people don't get rights anymore.

But as an endnote, these threads are stupid and none of what you said - or what I said, will probably happen.

Hmmm I think your opinion is not nuanced plenty of minorities also vote Republican, Vietnamese-Americans who are descended mostly from South Vietnam refugees hate the left and the democrats since Communists basically destroyed their country and they live in exile in the USA, Filipinos are also predominantly Republican voting because most Filipinos are Christian and religious like the power base of the Republican party, Cubans in Miami predominantly vote Republican because again they hate Communists since they had bad experiences with Castro.

Also the Latin American community isn't even monolithic itself there are also White Latinos too, they're not all made up of Mestizos. White Latinos tend to side with Republicans too.

I can't believe I know more about your politics than you do, I'm not even American, but being from a former American colony, the Philippines, I guess I can be an avid informed spectator.

[Isles of Metanoia]

What are the most likely names for the two new nations?

El Libre y Soberano Estado de Alta California, Estados Unidos de Mexico and The Province of the Great Lakes, Commonwealth of Canada.

Que? Me gusta la territoria del California para Filipinos.

Why? It's because California is where there are most Filipinos now and that we actually have a royal claim to that land in that, what was once only fantasy we made reality. Spanish writers only made up a fictitious land called California to tell a story of a Pagan Amazon Queen allied to Muslims (Thus the term Califia or female Caliph) who went to war with Christians but got converted by Catholic chivalry.

Well, we Filipinos made reality that fantasy when the Muslims and Pagans of the Philippines were simultaneously allying with or fighting against the Sultan of Brunei who was a descendant of the 5th Caliph of Islam, when Spain came to the Philippines by crossing via Mexico and using some Aztec and Mayan hired help too, they encountered the Pagans of the Philippines locked in war against Muslims who themselves were in civil with each other too. This motley multitude of strange bedfellows somehow managed to stitch together plots, the Spanish knew Arabic since they Reconquered their territory from Muslims yet they did not know about Animist Malays or Buddhists and Hindus of the Philippines though yet since these Pagans where also exposed to invading Muslims they mutually hated them along with the Spanish, yet ironically they can only communicate to each other via the Arabic culture they despise, then there is also the case of native Malays siding with the Aztecs and Mayan hired men instead because both Malays and Aztecs originally descended from Asian people's and both where under Spanish oppression and that they look.similar to each other, also there's the fact that the Spanish actually look more like their hated Arab enemies because both are Caucasians.

A complicated mess of disparate unlikely alliances, yet these people stuck like glue when the Sultanate of Brunei had a civil war and some Bruneians joined the Spanish against the usurper Sultan, Saiful Rijal, these motley band of unlikely friends then decided to invade Brunei and crown their candidate Pengiran Seri Lela as Sultan. Unfortunately he died of poisoning and the army fell sick too so they had to leave Brunei but all these armed men brought back Princess Putri a daughter of Caliph blood. She converted to Christianity and had her descendants spread to California, this making reality a story which was once only considered legend.

[West Leas Oros 2]

No, it isn't. None of what you just said has any basis in Marxist theory. What you just said is, as the Santa Claus impersonator himself would say, UNDIALECTICAL.

Well, it does come from this "theory"...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism

What I said to San Montalbano was that nothing he said was based in Marxist theory, but I already knew it was based on the stupid "theories" of the Nazis.

[New yugoslavaia]

Well, it does come from this "theory"...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism

What I said to San Montalbano was that nothing he said was based in Marxist theory, but I already knew it was based on the stupid "theories" of the Nazis.

"But muh EssJayDoubleu's!"

(Mind you, I used to be a reactionary, so I sort of understand him.)