NationStates

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Due the massive influx of Latin America related topics over the past days and weeks I have blatantly and hilariously decided to create LAG - Latin America General.

Thus i am continueing the awful and terrible tradition of megathreads, altough I do not expect this one to survive beyond a few weeks. You may prove me wrong however. Since thread ownership isn't a thing on NSG this is just me getting the ball rolling.

It covers all South American related topics. Central america and Caribbbean can be optionally added. You can discuss here the lastest developments in such different countries such as Argentina, Chile, Bolivia or Brazil.

The Hot Topics of the days are the political crisis in Bolivia and Brazil. In Bolivia long-time President Evo Morales has resigned upon threats of a coups against his government and in Brazil President Bolsonaro is confronted with severe allegations regarding the murder of Marielle Franco in 2018.

Morales sauce: https://www.dw.com/en/bolivia-morales-w ... a-51180165

Bolsonaro Sauce: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... r-suspects

I can't wait to see people talk about how a military coup against a democratically-elected government is actually a good thing. Fuck the right-wing opposition that's plagued Bolivia.

Eternal Lotharia wrote:

Torrocca wrote:I can't wait to see people talk about how a military coup against a democratically-elected government is actually a good thing. Fuck the right-wing opposition that's plagued Bolivia.

Fuck them, imprison them.
Also Imprison Bolsonaro-he's a criminal against humanity.

He's also a dictator-in-waiting, he is evil.

Bolivia was thriving before this, this is disgusting.

Thanks to Morales, the Bolivian economy became the fastest growing in South America and one of the fastest in the world, quadrupling during his tenure. Thanks to Morales, poverty drastically disappeared in Bolivia. Fuck the cowards who decided to stage a coup against this man.

The perfect thread to start my angry radicalization towards Marxist Peronism as South American neoliberalism refuses to go gently into that good night.

Torrocca wrote:

Eternal Lotharia wrote:Fuck them, imprison them.
Also Imprison Bolsonaro-he's a criminal against humanity.

He's also a dictator-in-waiting, he is evil.

Bolivia was thriving before this, this is disgusting.

Thanks to Morales, the Bolivian economy became the fastest growing in South America and one of the fastest in the world, quadrupling during his tenure. Thanks to Morales, poverty drastically disappeared in Bolivia. Fuck the cowards who decided to stage a coup against this man.

The dude's government turned Bolivia into one of the two islands of relative prosperity and progress in the sea of late-stage capitalist piss that South America has become over the past decade. Warts and all, he and his movement have my respect. They deserve better than the endless avalanche of two-faced bullcrap that the South American bourgeoise throws at movements like his.

How is this a coup? There were irregularities with the previous election, and they are going to hold a new one. It's not like the military is taking control - from what I can tell.

Eternal Lotharia wrote:

Liriena wrote:The perfect thread to start my angry radicalization towards Marxist Peronism as South American neoliberalism refuses to go gently into that good night.

I'm just pissed at a coup against a actually good socialist government. The one country that got it right and they overthrow him?

What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?

Can't have the masses be inspired by a successful, peaceful, democratically-elected Socialist government to take a stand against the Neoliberal world order that's been continuously fucking them over for decades now, can we?

Eternal Lotharia wrote:

Liriena wrote:The perfect thread to start my angry radicalization towards Marxist Peronism as South American neoliberalism refuses to go gently into that good night.

I'm just pissed at a coup against a actually good socialist government. The one country that got it right and they overthrow him?

What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?

It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time. Arturo Illia was not a socialist, but he was a very progressive Argentine president who had a fantastic government by Argentine standards... and for his good deeds he was rewarded with a coup.

Liriena wrote:

Eternal Lotharia wrote:I'm just pissed at a coup against a actually good socialist government. The one country that got it right and they overthrow him?

What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?

It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time.

But usually isn’t the U.S. involved in those?

so what are the odds for who becomes the next actual president of Venezuela? or the odds of a civil war breaking out?

Valtrona wrote:

Liriena wrote:It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time.

But usually isn’t the U.S. involved in those?

There's a fantastic chance the US is involved in this one, too.

And by fantastic I mean it fucking sucks.

Valtrona wrote:

Liriena wrote:It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time.

But usually isn’t the U.S. involved in those?

Yes. And there's an argument to be made that they are at least indirectly involved, by way of the Organization of American States, who've enabled the coup while simultaneously stoking the flames of a new red scare.

Yep, this is going to end well.

Liriena wrote:The perfect thread to start my angry radicalization towards Marxist Peronism as South American neoliberalism refuses to go gently into that good night.

What did you expect? It is the same reaction I have to Trump supporters being shocked that an entrench power structure, does not want to go away. You're going to have to dig them out of their comfortable bureaucracies with their sinecures and revolving doors.

Didn't the guy try and get himself elected dodgily?
And like people protested.
And the military said were not going to go full socialist and kill civilians?
So the dodgy corrupt guy is standing down?

Eternal Lotharia wrote:

Liriena wrote:It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time. Arturo Illia was not a socialist, but he was a very progressive Argentine president who had a fantastic government by Argentine standards... and for his good deeds he was rewarded with a coup.

So the military is undemocratic. Color me shocked.

Not just the military. The police led the coup in Bolivia. And liberal parties here have a tendency to also be very authoritarian when opposed by popular classes or faced with a popular government. See: Piñera in Chile this year and Macri's violent repression of the protests against his social security reform in 2017.

Liriena wrote:

Eternal Lotharia wrote:So the military is undemocratic. Color me shocked.

Not just the military. The police led the coup in Bolivia. And liberal parties here have a tendency to also be very authoritarian when opposed by popular classes or faced with a popular government. See: Piñera in Chile this year and Macri's violent repression of the protests against his social security reform in 2017.

Pinera froze like a punk instead of doubling down. Please do not do him any credit :^)

Eternal Lotharia wrote:

Samadhi wrote:Didn't the guy try and get himself elected dodgily?
And like people protested.
And the military said were not going to go full socialist and kill civilians?
So the dodgy corrupt guy is standing down?

That's Maduro, I think.

Says Bolivia

Eternal Lotharia wrote:

Liriena wrote:Yes. And there's an argument to be made that they are at least indirectly involved, by way of the Organization of American States, who've enabled the coup while simultaneously stoking the flames of a new red scare.

Fuck Bolsonaro, fuck Macri, fuck Colombia's Leader, fuck Ecuador's leader, fuck Chile's leader, impeach them all.

We had something work for fucking once and people prospered, Bolivia especially needed it, they basically fucked over a people, this is against human rights.
Invade them?

Human rights invasions tend to end up with open air slave markets and a failed state. While I appreciate the Bill Kristol approach, it is perhaps unwise to say the least.

The East Marches II wrote:

Liriena wrote:Not just the military. The police led the coup in Bolivia. And liberal parties here have a tendency to also be very authoritarian when opposed by popular classes or faced with a popular government. See: Piñera in Chile this year and Macri's violent repression of the protests against his social security reform in 2017.

Pinera froze like a punk instead of doubling down. Please do not do him any credit :^)

He only froze for, like, a week. Now he's pushing to give the police and military more power in repressing the protests against him because he can no longer ignore that it's his head that the Chilean people want to see roll, not just his cabinet's.

Liriena wrote:

The East Marches II wrote:
Pinera froze like a punk instead of doubling down. Please do not do him any credit :^)

He only froze for, like, a week. Now he's pushing to give the police and military more power in repressing the protests against him because he can no longer ignore that it's his head that the Chilean people want to see roll, not just his cabinet's.

What a rookie mistake. Can't even get good dictators anymore smh tbh.

The East Marches II wrote:

Eternal Lotharia wrote:Fuck Bolsonaro, fuck Macri, fuck Colombia's Leader, fuck Ecuador's leader, fuck Chile's leader, impeach them all.

We had something work for fucking once and people prospered, Bolivia especially needed it, they basically fucked over a people, this is against human rights.
Invade them?

Human rights invasions tend to end up with open air slave markets and a failed state. While I appreciate the Bill Kristol approach, it is perhaps unwise to say the least.

Yeah, as much schadenfreude as I'd get from an American military intervention overthrowing a bunch of neoliberal ghouls, the historical record doesn't paint a promising picture.

Samadhi wrote:Didn't the guy try and get himself elected dodgily?
And like people protested.
And the military said were not going to go full socialist and kill civilians?
So the dodgy corrupt guy is standing down?

No. He won fair and square. You'd think a guy who supposedly rigged an election wouldn't win with just barely the ten percent gap between him and his opponent. That's some shitty ass rigging of elections if he didn't win with a clear majority.

The East Marches II wrote:

Liriena wrote:He only froze for, like, a week. Now he's pushing to give the police and military more power in repressing the protests against him because he can no longer ignore that it's his head that the Chilean people want to see roll, not just his cabinet's.

What a rookie mistake. Can't even get good dictators anymore smh tbh.

Perón was the last smart South American authoritarian.

There, I said it.

Eternal Lotharia wrote:

Samadhi wrote:
Says Bolivia

Oh

This

https://www.news.com.au/world/breaking- ... 947f7007ac

I don't normally read news sites, they ain't worth shit.
But fuck having to actually talk to south Americans.