NationStates

Arisyan wrote:Bolsonaro won a rigged election in 2018, far more rigged than what the 2022 one is going to amount to. At least Lula isn't spamming WhatsApp with political campaigns.

I mean... if the legal systems in Latin America functioned properly Lula and most of his counterparts, right-wing or left-wing, throughout the region would be in prison. I haven't seen anyone serious assert that he isn't actually guilty of corruption, simply that the judges who convicted him of said corruption were intent on achieving political goals. I'd say both can be true. Lula is corrupt and his corruption was singled out because it was politically convenient.

Fahran wrote:

Arisyan wrote:Bolsonaro won a rigged election in 2018, far more rigged than what the 2022 one is going to amount to. At least Lula isn't spamming WhatsApp with political campaigns.

I mean... if the legal systems in Latin America functioned properly Lula and most of his counterparts, right-wing or left-wing, throughout the region would be in prison. I haven't seen anyone serious assert that he isn't actually guilty of corruption, simply that the judges who convicted him of said corruption were intent on achieving political goals. I'd say both can be true. Lula is corrupt and his corruption was singled out because it was politically convenient.

In all honesty, if Brazil's legal system was functioning like half of the politicians in the country would be in jail.

Arisyan wrote:In all honesty, if Brazil's legal system was functioning like half of the politicians in the country would be in jail.

Probably. My main point here is that Lula, and most of the other people who have been tossed in prison for corruption in the past decade, definitely deserve to be there. We have the published receipts for most of them too - what with all the leaks we've gotten. We can say with confidence that they're guilty.

That said, we have a tendency to underestimate the level of corruption among American, Canadian, and British politicians to a significant degree, I think. Especially when it comes to nepotism - which is exceedingly common. I think we'd have for instance a difficult time arguing that Trump or Biden weren't/aren't fundamentally corrupt given the clear nepotism we've observed. It's really just a matter of whether we glance over that corruption because we like their broader programs.

Fahran wrote:

Arisyan wrote:In all honesty, if Brazil's legal system was functioning like half of the politicians in the country would be in jail.

Probably. My main point here is that Lula, and most of the other people who have been tossed in prison for corruption in the past decade, definitely deserve to be there. We have the published receipts for most of them too - what with all the leaks we've gotten. We can say with confidence that they're guilty.

That said, we have a tendency to underestimate the level of corruption among American, Canadian, and British politicians to a significant degree, I think. Especially when it comes to nepotism - which is exceedingly common. I think we'd have for instance a difficult time arguing that Trump or Biden weren't/aren't fundamentally corrupt given the clear nepotism we've observed. It's really just a matter of whether we glance over that corruption because we like their broader programs.

Once again I think that's why Lula is so popular in Brazil. I feel that the majority of his supporters know he is guilty of corruption but they still like his broader platform and he's a safe, reliable candidate who will hopefully reverse the damage Bolsonaro (who is also probably 5 times more corrupt) did.

Arisyan wrote:

Fahran wrote:Probably. My main point here is that Lula, and most of the other people who have been tossed in prison for corruption in the past decade, definitely deserve to be there. We have the published receipts for most of them too - what with all the leaks we've gotten. We can say with confidence that they're guilty.

That said, we have a tendency to underestimate the level of corruption among American, Canadian, and British politicians to a significant degree, I think. Especially when it comes to nepotism - which is exceedingly common. I think we'd have for instance a difficult time arguing that Trump or Biden weren't/aren't fundamentally corrupt given the clear nepotism we've observed. It's really just a matter of whether we glance over that corruption because we like their broader programs.

Once again I think that's why Lula is so popular in Brazil. I feel that the majority of his supporters know he is guilty of corruption but they still like his broader platform and he's a safe, reliable candidate who will hopefully reverse the damage Bolsonaro (who is also probably 5 times more corrupt) did.

Basically, Lula is not as bad as Bolsonaro.

I mean how can you mess up that bad?

The H Corporation wrote:

Arisyan wrote:Once again I think that's why Lula is so popular in Brazil. I feel that the majority of his supporters know he is guilty of corruption but they still like his broader platform and he's a safe, reliable candidate who will hopefully reverse the damage Bolsonaro (who is also probably 5 times more corrupt) did.

Basically, Lula is not as bad as Bolsonaro.

I mean how can you mess up that bad?

Lula, is Pro Fidel Castro Ruz, Pro Raúl Castro Ruz, Pro Miguel Diaz-Canel and Pro Manuel Marrero Cruz of Cuba. Lula, Fidel and Raúl look like brothers, notice the family resemblance, it is frightenedly and eerily, uncanny, please scroll down to the 8th Pic on the link provided? and see and read all the Pics and links provided? https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1642404

Kowani wrote:Motion of No Confidence fails against Peruvian President Pedro Castillo (55-54, 19 Abstentions, Needed 87)

I think he might going for the world record in most failed no-confidence motions.

Well, in Costa Rica, Chaves from the PPSD got elected with around 52% of the vote. I mean, I don't really like him as he's a neoliberal and a former World Bank employee, but Figueres wasn't much better in all honesty.

Arisyan wrote:Well, in Costa Rica, Chaves from the PPSD got elected with around 52% of the vote. I mean, I don't really like him as he's a neoliberal and a former World Bank employee, but Figueres wasn't much better in all honesty.

Here we go again with this term neoliberal. change the record DJ this tune is old.

San Lumen wrote:

Arisyan wrote:Well, in Costa Rica, Chaves from the PPSD got elected with around 52% of the vote. I mean, I don't really like him as he's a neoliberal and a former World Bank employee, but Figueres wasn't much better in all honesty.

Here we go again with this term neoliberal. change the record DJ this tune is old.

But he literally is, he meets every single textbook definition of the term. Just because it's a common leftist trope to assign the term "neoliberal" to people who don't fit it doesn't mean it's a meaningless buzzword.

Arisyan wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
Here we go again with this term neoliberal. change the record DJ this tune is old.

But he literally is, he meets every single textbook definition of the term. Just because it's a common leftist trope to assign the term "neoliberal" to people who don't fit it doesn't mean it's a meaningless buzzword.

Its applied to everyone it seems.

San Lumen wrote:

Arisyan wrote:But he literally is, he meets every single textbook definition of the term. Just because it's a common leftist trope to assign the term "neoliberal" to people who don't fit it doesn't mean it's a meaningless buzzword.

Its applied to everyone it seems.

Sure, it has become a sort of buzzword recently but that doesn't mean it still isn't a political ideology. The World Bank is a neoliberal institution, he worked for said institution and he has literally parroted neoliberal talking points during his campaign.

Arisyan wrote:

San Lumen wrote:
Its applied to everyone it seems.

Sure, it has become a sort of buzzword recently but that doesn't mean it still isn't a political ideology. The World Bank is a neoliberal institution, he worked for said institution and he has literally parroted neoliberal talking points during his campaign.

Its a buzzword for everyone people don't like. Get some new material.

San Lumen wrote:

Arisyan wrote:Sure, it has become a sort of buzzword recently but that doesn't mean it still isn't a political ideology. The World Bank is a neoliberal institution, he worked for said institution and he has literally parroted neoliberal talking points during his campaign.

Its a buzzword for everyone people don't like. Get some new material.

I mean considering he loves austery I'd say it's fair to call him a neolib

San Lumen wrote:

Arisyan wrote:Well, in Costa Rica, Chaves from the PPSD got elected with around 52% of the vote. I mean, I don't really like him as he's a neoliberal and a former World Bank employee, but Figueres wasn't much better in all honesty.

Here we go again with this term neoliberal. change the record DJ this tune is old.

Chaves' Party

The party's ideology expresses that they want to lower taxes but maintain sustainable social policies, while helping companies and giving benefits to farmers. It is against monopolies, promotes improvements in the prices of the basic basket products such as rice and is against unnecessary paperwork and bureaucracy in institutions. As such, it advocates reducing public spending by closing unnecessary institutions.[3][4]

In the social and environmental sphere, Chaves affirms that his government will seek better unemployment plans with more competitive tourism,[5] affirms that he is not against the legalization of marijuana since it brings economic and social benefits, but he affirms that he has an unfavorable perception of the decriminalization of abortion.[6]

What ideology would you say they are, Lumen?

Arisyan wrote:

Kowani wrote:Motion of No Confidence fails against Peruvian President Pedro Castillo (55-54, 19 Abstentions, Needed 87)

I think he might going for the world record in most failed no-confidence motions.

Pretty nice record to hold.

In Chile, President Boric's approval rating drops to 45%, and the new Constitution is now opposed 46-40 with 55% of voters saying they don't trust the Constitutional Convention

All of this is a result of rising unemployment and the global inflation spike.

Shrillland wrote:In Chile, President Boric's approval rating drops to 45%, and the new Constitution is now opposed 46-40 with 55% of voters saying they don't trust the Constitutional Convention

All of this is a result of rising unemployment and the global inflation spike.

Sounds disheartening, as if those where the products of a few weeks of Boric's leadership or a not-yet-applied Constitution, and not the consequences of pandemic and war and speculation...

Kilobugya wrote:

Shrillland wrote:In Chile, President Boric's approval rating drops to 45%, and the new Constitution is now opposed 46-40 with 55% of voters saying they don't trust the Constitutional Convention

All of this is a result of rising unemployment and the global inflation spike.

Sounds disheartening, as if those where the products of a few weeks of Boric's leadership or a not-yet-applied Constitution, and not the consequences of pandemic and war and speculation...

Right? We don't even know for sure what's in the constitution and won't until July at the latest, when the convention is required to present the document to the public.

Shrillland wrote:In Chile, President Boric's approval rating drops to 45%, and the new Constitution is now opposed 46-40 with 55% of voters saying they don't trust the Constitutional Convention

All of this is a result of rising unemployment and the global inflation spike.

Thus begins the eternal Latin American cycle of pink tide-blue tide. *sigh*

hopefully one day someone breaks the cycle.

Arisyan wrote:

Shrillland wrote:In Chile, President Boric's approval rating drops to 45%, and the new Constitution is now opposed 46-40 with 55% of voters saying they don't trust the Constitutional Convention

All of this is a result of rising unemployment and the global inflation spike.

Thus begins the eternal Latin American cycle of pink tide-blue tide. *sigh*

hopefully one day someone breaks the cycle.

That won't happen until all the politicians stop being kleptocrats that pretend to like the average man.

So basically never.

Port Caverton wrote:

Arisyan wrote:Thus begins the eternal Latin American cycle of pink tide-blue tide. *sigh*

hopefully one day someone breaks the cycle.

That won't happen until all the politicians stop being kleptocrats that pretend to like the average man.

So basically never.

I don't think that's the stumbling block here. The pendulum effect is an observed phenomena in quite a few elective democracies. I'm not sure we want the cycle to break.

Well, as it appears no one else commented about it, Mexico had a confidence referendum on whether AMLO should remain President.

As you can see in the article, it was defeated by a massive margin (93-7), with only 17% voter turnout. So even if it did somehow pass, the low turnout would have de-legitimized the referendum anyways.