Is it disrespectful to sit during the Pledge?

[Kernen]

I do none of those things. You may. I dont.

Let me ask then. What do you value? Family, religion, philanthropy?

Personal pleasure, probably.

[Satuga]

Just because you dont see the action I take doesn't mean I'm not taking it.

The whole point of my last like 10 posts was that the one other NS User should sit down during the pledge if that's what they believe in, especially because they're in a public school. What kind of position are you trying to take?

[Fahran]

Personal pleasure, probably.

I don't really find that commendable or admirable but then I suppose we have radically divergent ethical views. I do not believe that everyone acting solely based on personal pleasure would lead to a kind world though.

[Kernen]

Just because you dont see the action I take doesn't mean I'm not taking it.

The whole point of my last like 10 posts was that the one other NS User should sit down during the pledge if that's what they believe in, especially because they're in a public school. What kind of position are you trying to take?

And mine has pretty clearly been that it shouldn't be necessary in the first place. Do you need the links?

Personal pleasure, probably.

I don't really find that commendable or admirable but then I suppose we have radically divergent ethical views. I do not believe that everyone acting solely based on personal pleasure would lead to a kind world though.

I agree that if everybody did that it would lead to an unkind world. But I'm not advocating that everybody else share my attitude in that regard.

[Fahran]

I agree that if everybody did that it would lead to an unkind world. But I'm not advocating that everybody else share my attitude in that regard.

You make Immanuel Kant sad, friendo. And pretty much any philospher/ethicist who isn't from Cyrene or reflective of those who were.

Sadly, it seems more and more people are steering in your direction. At which point something will have to give.

[Satuga]

And mine has pretty clearly been that it shouldn't be necessary in the first place. Do you need the links?

Jesus christ were about to go in a circle, after this comment im gonna stop doing this tail chase, as i've said before there cannot be change without action.

[Kernen]

I agree that if everybody did that it would lead to an unkind world. But I'm not advocating that everybody else share my attitude in that regard.

You make Immanuel Kant sad, friendo. And pretty much any philospher/ethicist who isn't from Cyrene or reflective of those who were.

Sadly, it seems more and more people are steering in your direction. At which point something will have to give.

Sucks for Kant.

And mine has pretty clearly been that it shouldn't be necessary in the first place. Do you need the links?

Jesus christ were about to go in a circle, after this comment im gonna stop doing this tail chase, as i've said before there cannot be change without action.

Because you haven't justified why this is sufficiently beneficial to continue, mostly. You do you.

[Fahran]

Sucks for Kant.

Sucks for you if more people begin subscribing to the same view.

[Kernen]

Sucks for Kant.

Sucks for you if more people begin subscribing to the same view.

One way or another, by then it wont matter.

[Vassenor]

Who's expecting to be clapped at?

I'm not legit saying they're going to be clapped at, I'm saying don't expect anything if you do or don't.

And I'm asking who is expecting that and needs to be told not to.

[Tekeristan]

I'll stand for the pledge so people don't bother me but I don't recite it or put my hand over my heart.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

That "and" is important. You are swearing allegiance to the cloth and the values.

Vass, do you oppose an indivisible republic with liberty and justice for all?

One can like democracy and human rights without having to perform a cult-like loyalty test and prostrating themselves in front of a deity they don't even believe in ("Under God" is not exactly a secular motto after all).

[San Montalbano]

Vass, do you oppose an indivisible republic with liberty and justice for all?

One can like democracy and human rights without having to perform a cult-like loyalty test and prostrating themselves in front of a deity they don't even believe in ("Under God" is not exactly a secular motto after all).

I doubt that, are you in favor of hate speech laws?

Note: that was a mistake and directed at vassenor, my apologies.

[Fahran]

Vass, do you oppose an indivisible republic with liberty and justice for all?

One can like democracy and human rights without having to perform a cult-like loyalty test and prostrating themselves in front of a deity they don't even believe in ("Under God" is not exactly a secular motto after all).

Vass, I didn't know you had an alternative account and I didn't know we were moving the goal-posts.

It's not cult-like, it's not a loyalty test per se, and it's not asking you to prostrate yourself before a deity in specific terms. It's a pledge of patriotism and nationalism that carries no penalty for refusal to recite it. Its recitation along with an education in history and civics prepares one to contemplate citizenship and what it means in the hopes that, perhaps, they won't be listless and/or selfish citizens, at least if we reflect at all on what is being spoken.

[Fahran]

Sucks for you if more people begin subscribing to the same view.

One way or another, by then it wont matter.

Debatable. It could matter by the time you hit sixty, especially if population contracts, wages continue to stagnate, and any number of other negative consequences rear their heads.

[Kernen]

One way or another, by then it wont matter.

Debatable. It could matter by the time you hit sixty, especially if population contracts, wages continue to stagnate, and any number of other negative consequences rear their heads.

For all you know, I could be looking at 60 now.

[Fahran]

For all you know, I could be looking at 60 now.

Given your argument, my presumption was that you were somewhere between fourteen and twenty six, probably single and without kids, and not especially active in the community as a whole beyond a small network of friends and online associates. So like a lot of other people in our generation.

[San Montalbano]

For all you know, I could be looking at 60 now.

Given your argument, my presumption was that you were somewhere between fourteen and twenty six, probably single and without kids, and not especially active in the community as a whole beyond a small network of friends and online associates. So like a lot of other people in our generation.

Reading that is depressing, especially concerning my generation.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

One can like democracy and human rights without having to perform a cult-like loyalty test and prostrating themselves in front of a deity they don't even believe in ("Under God" is not exactly a secular motto after all).

Vass, I didn't know you had an alternative account and I didn't know we were moving the goal-posts.

It's not cult-like, it's not a loyalty test per se, and it's not asking you to prostrate yourself before a deity in specific terms. It's a pledge of patriotism and nationalism that carries no penalty for refusal to recite it. Its recitation along with an education in history and civics prepares one to contemplate citizenship and what it means in the hopes that, perhaps, they won't be listless and/or selfish citizens, at least if we reflect at all on what is being spoken.

The Pledge would be fine if it was voluntary and not literally rammed into children's heads every single day since they first entered education (With them having no choice in the matter at that), especially since it completely whitewashes all the sins and war crimes America performed during its 243 year old history and implicitly coerces you to be a Christian due to the "Under God" segment, as if the US was a theocracy and the separation of church and state was nonexistent. And worshipping a inanimate object such as the American flag is cult-like behavior, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

[San Montalbano]

Vass, I didn't know you had an alternative account and I didn't know we were moving the goal-posts.

It's not cult-like, it's not a loyalty test per se, and it's not asking you to prostrate yourself before a deity in specific terms. It's a pledge of patriotism and nationalism that carries no penalty for refusal to recite it. Its recitation along with an education in history and civics prepares one to contemplate citizenship and what it means in the hopes that, perhaps, they won't be listless and/or selfish citizens, at least if we reflect at all on what is being spoken.

The Pledge would be fine if it was voluntary and not literally rammed into children's heads every single day since they first entered education (With them having no choice in the matter at that), especially since it completely whitewashes all the sins and war crimes America performed during its 243 year old history and implicitly coerces you to be a Christian due to the "Under God" segment, as if the US was a theocracy and the separation of church and state was nonexistent. And worshipping a inanimate object such as the American flag is cult-like behavior, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

Are you a socialist or marxist, im just curious. I just find that “whitewashing” comments come from such groups.

[Vassenor]

One can like democracy and human rights without having to perform a cult-like loyalty test and prostrating themselves in front of a deity they don't even believe in ("Under God" is not exactly a secular motto after all).

I doubt that, are you in favor of hate speech laws?

Note: that was a mistake and directed at vassenor, my apologies.

Is this going to be another tirade where you moan about how SJWs and cultural marxists are destroying America by making it not OK to be racist and sexist?

[San Montalbano]

I doubt that, are you in favor of hate speech laws?

Note: that was a mistake and directed at vassenor, my apologies.

Is this going to be another tirade where you moan about how SJWs and cultural marxists are destroying America by making it not OK to be racist and sexist?

No, there is just a difference between violent and non-violent confrontation in regards to “ making it not okay”, i was curious about where you stand.

[Vassenor]

Is this going to be another tirade where you moan about how SJWs and cultural marxists are destroying America by making it not OK to be racist and sexist?

No, there is just a difference between violent and non-violent confrontation in regards to “ making it not okay”, i was curious about where you stand.

Besides, racism and sexism are patently antithetical to the values of America.

[Fahran]

The Pledge would be fine if it was voluntary

It is voluntary.

and not literally rammed into children's heads every single day since they first entered education (With them having no choice in the matter at that), especially since it completely whitewashes all the sins and war crimes America performed during its 243 year old history

We've already dispensed with the whitewashing argument. Children receive an education on numerous atrocities and war crimes committed by particular administrations throughout our history. All y'all clearly have for instance. The pledge of allegiance does not require that you approve of Andrew Jackson violating the law to ethnically cleanse the Cherokee Nation or support the institution of slavery. When you recite it, you're arguably taking an oath to specifically oppose such things since they do not constitute liberty and justice for all.

and implicitly coerces you to be a Christian due to the "Under God" segment, as if the US was a theocracy and the separation of church and state was nonexistent.

Yeah, no. Christians do not have a monopoly on G-d. Really, theists/deists don't either.

And worshipping a inanimate object such as the American flag is cult-like behavior, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

You're not "worshiping" the flag. That's now what the pledge of allegiance is. There's no religious overtones to a secular national ritual.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

The Pledge would be fine if it was voluntary and not literally rammed into children's heads every single day since they first entered education (With them having no choice in the matter at that), especially since it completely whitewashes all the sins and war crimes America performed during its 243 year old history and implicitly coerces you to be a Christian due to the "Under God" segment, as if the US was a theocracy and the separation of church and state was nonexistent. And worshipping a inanimate object such as the American flag is cult-like behavior, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

Are you a socialist or marxist, im just curious. I just find that “whitewashing” comments come from such groups.

Comments about "whitewashing" come from everyone even slightly aware of American history though, not merely the "damn commies" (Redbaiting). Having an entire Wikipedia (Which is based within the United States and does not endorse socialism) page and a plethora of historians dedicated towards documenting war crimes of your own country is not really a good thing after all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes