by Asardia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm
by Ethel mermania » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:24 pm
by Ifreann » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:32 pm
by Agarntrop » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:33 pm
Ifreann wrote:It's super weird that America expects kids to pledge allegiance to the country in the first place.
by Verderi » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:34 pm
Asardia wrote:Tomorrow is Veterans Day, the 11th of November, which also coincides with the armistice signed during that ended the first world war. Here in the United States, it's a holiday, and schools tend to bring in veterans to speak to students about their experiences in combat. However, I've also noticed a trend, both in sports (Colin Kaepernick) and at my own high school. People sit/kneel during the national anthem or during the pledge of allegiance. Some do it in order to protest certain events, while others refuse to stand for their own personal reasons.
The reason I bring up this topic is due to the arguments I've seen that are against sitting for the pledge/national anthem. At school, we have debates saying "it's disrespectful to all those who fought for your freedoms to not even stand for the pledge." This argument seems rather compelling to my classmates whenever we discuss this, however I have my own take, and I would to hear what you all think about it as well.
My ancestors were slaves, kidnapped from their homes in Africa and forced into chattel slavery for their entire lives. My grandparents tell me stories of what it was like to grow up in the 1950s and 1960s, dealing with discrimination, racism, and police brutality. In fact, my grandmother told me how hard it was, as a black woman, to secure a job in post Jim Crow America. The veterans who came into our school were from WW2 onwards. During that same time period, the United States orchestrated countless coups in democratic nations: Guatemala in 1954, and Iran in 1953.
But perhaps the worst are these: The US backed an authoritarian regime in South Korea, despite being "pro democratic". The US supported Saddam Hussein in the 1980s Iran-Iraq War. The US gave weapons to what became Al Qaeda. The US straight up invaded Panama in 1989 and arrested its leader (whom they supported for years) on drug trafficking. They left Iraq in state of chaos after the 2003 invasion. In fact, the US actively ignored the Rwandan Genocide, but made sure to invade Iraq after their invasion of Kuwait.
The point I have is that the US, like all countries, does not have a perfect track record for humanitarian intervention and democracy. These events, which disregarded the will of the people and a nation's sovereignty, is why I personally don't stand during the pledge of allegiance. If it's disrespectful to veterans to sit, then I find it disrespectful to the millions who suffered from American foreign intervention and regime changes. So, what are your thoughts on this issue? Is it an issue at all? Is the Pledge of Allegiance sole purpose to commemorate the bravery of the soldiers? I find this topic to be rather fascinating and controversial
by Sleet Clans » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:35 pm
by Iridencia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:36 pm
by The New California Republic » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:36 pm
Ifreann wrote:It's super weird that America expects kids to pledge allegiance to the country in the first place.
by Ifreann » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:36 pm
by Asardia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:40 pm
by The New California Republic » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:40 pm
by Ruslandi » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:41 pm
Iridencia wrote:Maybe, maybe not. But it doesn't matter, you still have the right to do it without consequence. Frankly, there are more important things to worry about regarding children and the country than whether or not they're giving proper respect to some lame little poem and a piece of fabric.
And no, I don't want to hear about "muh troops." Unless the troops are connected to American symbols through voodoo magic and are literally physically harmed by people disrespecting them, then they're more than capable of putting that military training to good use and growing a thicker skin about it.
by Asardia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:42 pm
Ifreann wrote:Who is it who is being disrespected by someone declining to pledge allegiance to America?
by Vassenor » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:42 pm
Ruslandi wrote:Iridencia wrote:Maybe, maybe not. But it doesn't matter, you still have the right to do it without consequence. Frankly, there are more important things to worry about regarding children and the country than whether or not they're giving proper respect to some lame little poem and a piece of fabric.
And no, I don't want to hear about "muh troops." Unless the troops are connected to American symbols through voodoo magic and are literally physically harmed by people disrespecting them, then they're more than capable of putting that military training to good use and growing a thicker skin about it.
Your "muh troops" argument can be easily debunked, as the national symbols pay homage to and represent the men who fought and bled for the nation. Thus it is disrespectful to the men who died in service to the nation.
by Auristania » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:44 pm
by Asardia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:44 pm
by Iridencia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:45 pm
Ruslandi wrote:Iridencia wrote:Maybe, maybe not. But it doesn't matter, you still have the right to do it without consequence. Frankly, there are more important things to worry about regarding children and the country than whether or not they're giving proper respect to some lame little poem and a piece of fabric.
And no, I don't want to hear about "muh troops." Unless the troops are connected to American symbols through voodoo magic and are literally physically harmed by people disrespecting them, then they're more than capable of putting that military training to good use and growing a thicker skin about it.
Your "muh troops" argument can be easily debunked, as the national symbols pay homage to and represent the men who fought and bled for the nation. Thus it is disrespectful to the men who died in service to the nation.
by The New California Republic » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:45 pm
by Ifreann » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:47 pm
by Ethel mermania » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:48 pm
Ifreann wrote:Who is it who is being disrespected by someone declining to pledge allegiance to America?
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