Should alimony exist?

[Elwher]

And you know these things how?

In the real world When married people.make decisions they are made jointly. To pick one common trope. If the wife works while the husband goes to med school and then is a stay at home mom, they divorce, why isnt she entitled to alimony? Her career has a 20 year gap that will forever negatively impact her ability to generate income

And alimony won’t negatively impact his ability to support himself? The reason why she isn’t entitled to money is because, contractually speaking, his obligations towards her have been made null and void.

The original contract was made in perpetuity, till death do us part and all that. It is not unreasonable for one party to insist of some financial settlement in order to agree to void a contract before its termination date. If the other party does not agree, than the original contract stays in force with all its terms intact. The alimony settlement is simply a part of the negotiations to nullify the contract.

[Diopolis]

Are they still married in this scenario?

That's not an answer to the question I posed to you, I asked for a source on your statement about contracts.

In the scenario proposed, married 20 years and divorcing. Let's say both parties have cause, he claims alienation of affection. She claims infidelity.

Neither is really a good reason for divorce.

[Thepeopl]

Partner alimony is payed to the ex spouse who earns less than the other ex spouse, and only until the less earning ex spouse is no longer single (married)
At least, in the Netherlands.
Alimony has a duration of 12 years if there are kids.
If the marriage was childless and lasted 5 years or more, also a max of 12 years.
If the marriage was shorter than 5 years and childless, alimony will be payed as many years the marriage lasted.

This law is also used if the partners had a registered partnership. (Not married, but a contract)

In the Netherlands, men will receive alimony when they separate from their working wife who earns more and if the man will drop under 60 % of the communal amount of income during the relationship.

[UniversalCommons]

Marriage is a contract. If the contract included alimony, you signed for it. You choose what goes into your marriage contract through a prenuptial agreement. Why most people don't do this is that there is simply not enough there to matter.

[Iwassoclose]

Depends on if my future wife makes more than me

[Ifreann]

You're talking like those two things are mutually exclusive. Like, you know that people need food regularly for their whole lives, yeah? You can't just eat once and then never need more food, after a while you'll need food again.

---

If the need is less then of course the payments will be less as well.

Robbing someone on a monthly basis isn’t desperation, it’s parasitic

I'll ask again, you do know that people need food throughout their life, yes?

---

And you know these things how?

In the real world When married people.make decisions they are made jointly. To pick one common trope. If the wife works while the husband goes to med school and then is a stay at home mom, they divorce, why isnt she entitled to alimony? Her career has a 20 year gap that will forever negatively impact her ability to generate income

And alimony won’t negatively impact his ability to support himself? The reason why she isn’t entitled to money is because, contractually speaking, his obligations towards her have been made null and void.

Thinking that contract law is the be all and end all of human society is beyond naive.

[Kernen]

And you know these things how?

In the real world When married people.make decisions they are made jointly. To pick one common trope. If the wife works while the husband goes to med school and then is a stay at home mom, they divorce, why isnt she entitled to alimony? Her career has a 20 year gap that will forever negatively impact her ability to generate income

And alimony won’t negatively impact his ability to support himself? The reason why she isn’t entitled to money is because, contractually speaking, his obligations towards her have been made null and void.

That isn't how contract law works.

[Vallermoore]

Only if someone was violent or otherwise acted disgracefully, otherwise no.

[Greed and Death]

Have you never heard of marriage?

Obviously I have. I have also heard that marriages can be ended by divorce. So not necessarily a lifelong arrangement.

Solution outlaw divorce whats the worst that could happen.

[Galloism]

And alimony won’t negatively impact his ability to support himself? The reason why she isn’t entitled to money is because, contractually speaking, his obligations towards her have been made null and void.

The original contract was made in perpetuity, till death do us part and all that. It is not unreasonable for one party to insist of some financial settlement in order to agree to void a contract before its termination date. If the other party does not agree, than the original contract stays in force with all its terms intact. The alimony settlement is simply a part of the negotiations to nullify the contract.

Of note, women initiate the majority of divorces and receive the majority of alimony.

So, in the “typical” case involving alimony, it’s the person initiating the contract termination that extracts a settlement from the person who did not initiate termination proceedings.

[The Republic of Fore]

If you can’t see a difference between someone stealing food out of desperation and someone robbing someone every month for years on end, I can’t help you.

You're talking like those two things are mutually exclusive. Like, you know that people need food regularly for their whole lives, yeah? You can't just eat once and then never need more food, after a while you'll need food again.

---

No, but I'd imagine one can't be alt-right if they don't support the idea of a white ethno state. Oh and according to the man himself he's not right wing. Just hates the idiocy and hypocrisy of certain people who the left doesn't like being criticized like Anita Sarkisian. Anyway, you do realize that not all spouses are abused or threatened with homelessness right? You're taking a very rare example and acting like it should justify something in every case.

If the need is less then of course the payments will be less as well.

1. And you know food banks exist right? Anyone who steals should be in prison.
2. Or the payments can not exist. Charities exist. And spouses have family members.

[The Republic of Fore]

Why though? Why should someone else's stupid decision entitle them to my money? They weren't forced to stop working. And their support wasn't needed.

And you know these things how?

In the real world When married people.make decisions they are made jointly. To pick one common trope. If the wife works while the husband goes to med school and then is a stay at home mom, they divorce, why isnt she entitled to alimony? Her career has a 20 year gap that will forever negatively impact her ability to generate income

She's not entitled because that's her problem. I don't care if the decision was made jointly. I didn't force you to stay home. You chose to do it. It's your problem if that means you can't support yourself. Once we're not together, It's not my issue if you sleep under a bridge and eat from dumpsters.

[The Republic of Fore]

And alimony won’t negatively impact his ability to support himself? The reason why she isn’t entitled to money is because, contractually speaking, his obligations towards her have been made null and void.

That isn't how contract law works.

Then change it.

[The Republic of Fore]

Marriage is a contract. If the contract included alimony, you signed for it. You choose what goes into your marriage contract through a prenuptial agreement. Why most people don't do this is that there is simply not enough there to matter.

Then take alimony out of the contract. Problem solved. You can have your precious marriage without it.

[The Republic of Fore]

And alimony won’t negatively impact his ability to support himself? The reason why she isn’t entitled to money is because, contractually speaking, his obligations towards her have been made null and void.

The original contract was made in perpetuity, till death do us part and all that. It is not unreasonable for one party to insist of some financial settlement in order to agree to void a contract before its termination date. If the other party does not agree, than the original contract stays in force with all its terms intact. The alimony settlement is simply a part of the negotiations to nullify the contract.

Or the other party can just not be a parasite.

[Twilight Imperium]

Did you just quintuple-post?

[Thepeopl]

And you know these things how?

In the real world When married people.make decisions they are made jointly. To pick one common trope. If the wife works while the husband goes to med school and then is a stay at home mom, they divorce, why isnt she entitled to alimony? Her career has a 20 year gap that will forever negatively impact her ability to generate income

She's not entitled because that's her problem. I don't care if the decision was made jointly. I didn't force you to stay home. You chose to do it. It's your problem if that means you can't support yourself. Once we're not together, It's not my issue if you sleep under a bridge and eat from dumpsters.

Yes! I applaud you! You are going to be pregnant! You will deliver the baby. Ofcourse you will stay at home to care for the baby and clean, do the laundry, do the grocery shopping , cook, make clothes, grow food, host parties for her career, maintain social contact with her family, work if she wants to finish university/ business school fulltime, cut her hair, make sure she looks great before leaving the house.

It is completely normal for both partners to work, if they both agreed on this.
Yes it is unfair guys can't be pregnant and give birth to a baby.
If more people, especially children live in a house, more household chores will pop up.
Babies can need 3× a day, clean bedding. Or clothes. And the caregiver too.. Ever seen a baby projectile vomit acid milk? Or high pressure diarrhoea when you are just changing the nappy?
Or when it is teething, the massive amount of drool the kid produces and let it dribble on any thing and any one.
Are you going to wake up 2/ 3 times a night to breastfeed? Luckily after 8/ 12 weeks it drops to just 1 x a night. Getting up, change the nappy and feed the kid.
Put it back to sleep and go back to bed yourself, to wake 5 hours later to do it again, and not go back to bed.
Or are you going to hire a nanny?

If you want to breastfeed, while working, you are put in a closet (if your lucky) or in the bathroom to milk yourself.

Yes you can buy formula. Got to heat the water, shake the milk and bottle feed the baby. The bottles and teats have to be sterilized after each use. Mostly done by cooking in boiling water for 10 minutes.
The baby will miss out on antibodies and taste (breast milk does take on some flavor from mums diet), but it will grow.

[Ethel mermania]

And you know these things how?

In the real world When married people.make decisions they are made jointly. To pick one common trope. If the wife works while the husband goes to med school and then is a stay at home mom, they divorce, why isnt she entitled to alimony? Her career has a 20 year gap that will forever negatively impact her ability to generate income

She's not entitled because that's her problem. I don't care if the decision was made jointly. I didn't force you to stay home. You chose to do it. It's your problem if that means you can't support yourself. Once we're not together, It's not my issue if you sleep under a bridge and eat from dumpsters.

Thankfully, that is not how the law works. You sign a marriage contract you have obligations. Unwilling to perform those obligations, dont sign the contract.

[Telconi]

The original contract was made in perpetuity, till death do us part and all that. It is not unreasonable for one party to insist of some financial settlement in order to agree to void a contract before its termination date. If the other party does not agree, than the original contract stays in force with all its terms intact. The alimony settlement is simply a part of the negotiations to nullify the contract.

Of note, women initiate the majority of divorces and receive the majority of alimony.

So, in the “typical” case involving alimony, it’s the person initiating the contract termination that extracts a settlement from the person who did not initiate termination proceedings.

Question being, did she have good cause to terminate the contract?

[Kernen]

That isn't how contract law works.

Then change it.

Lemme get this straight. You want to change contract law, a field of law which rarely changes because of the nigh-universal expectations relying on it to facilitate bargaining and business, to suit a shitty analogy? While generally a breach of contract excuses performance, a strictly literal approach to that would make complex deals impossible to rely on and would invite situations only remediable by equity.

Lets not argue to change something we don't understand simply because we don't understand it.

[Ethel mermania]

Then change it.

Lemme get this straight. You want to change contract law, a field of law which rarely changes because of the nigh-universal expectations relying on it to facilitate bargaining and business, to suit a shitty analogy? While generally a breach of contract excuses performance, a strictly literal approach to that would make complex deals impossible to rely on and would invite situations only remediable by equity.

Lets not argue to change something we don't understand simply because we don't understand it.

You must be new here.

[Galloism]

Of note, women initiate the majority of divorces and receive the majority of alimony.

So, in the “typical” case involving alimony, it’s the person initiating the contract termination that extracts a settlement from the person who did not initiate termination proceedings.

Question being, did she have good cause to terminate the contract?

I'm sure that varies from case to case.

[The Republic of Fore]

She's not entitled because that's her problem. I don't care if the decision was made jointly. I didn't force you to stay home. You chose to do it. It's your problem if that means you can't support yourself. Once we're not together, It's not my issue if you sleep under a bridge and eat from dumpsters.

Yes! I applaud you! You are going to be pregnant! You will deliver the baby. Ofcourse you will stay at home to care for the baby and clean, do the laundry, do the grocery shopping , cook, make clothes, grow food, host parties for her career, maintain social contact with her family, work if she wants to finish university/ business school fulltime, cut her hair, make sure she looks great before leaving the house.

It is completely normal for both partners to work, if they both agreed on this.
Yes it is unfair guys can't be pregnant and give birth to a baby.
If more people, especially children live in a house, more household chores will pop up.
Babies can need 3× a day, clean bedding. Or clothes. And the caregiver too.. Ever seen a baby projectile vomit acid milk? Or high pressure diarrhoea when you are just changing the nappy?
Or when it is teething, the massive amount of drool the kid produces and let it dribble on any thing and any one.
Are you going to wake up 2/ 3 times a night to breastfeed? Luckily after 8/ 12 weeks it drops to just 1 x a night. Getting up, change the nappy and feed the kid.
Put it back to sleep and go back to bed yourself, to wake 5 hours later to do it again, and not go back to bed.
Or are you going to hire a nanny?

If you want to breastfeed, while working, you are put in a closet (if your lucky) or in the bathroom to milk yourself.

Yes you can buy formula. Got to heat the water, shake the milk and bottle feed the baby. The bottles and teats have to be sterilized after each use. Mostly done by cooking in boiling water for 10 minutes.
The baby will miss out on antibodies and taste (breast milk does take on some flavor from mums diet), but it will grow.

I'm going to do absolutely none of those things. Because I neither want, nor will I ever have children. Strange you didn't consider that option. Not everyone plans to live their lives exactly as you do.

[Ethel mermania]

Yes! I applaud you! You are going to be pregnant! You will deliver the baby. Ofcourse you will stay at home to care for the baby and clean, do the laundry, do the grocery shopping , cook, make clothes, grow food, host parties for her career, maintain social contact with her family, work if she wants to finish university/ business school fulltime, cut her hair, make sure she looks great before leaving the house.

It is completely normal for both partners to work, if they both agreed on this.
Yes it is unfair guys can't be pregnant and give birth to a baby.
If more people, especially children live in a house, more household chores will pop up.
Babies can need 3× a day, clean bedding. Or clothes. And the caregiver too.. Ever seen a baby projectile vomit acid milk? Or high pressure diarrhoea when you are just changing the nappy?
Or when it is teething, the massive amount of drool the kid produces and let it dribble on any thing and any one.
Are you going to wake up 2/ 3 times a night to breastfeed? Luckily after 8/ 12 weeks it drops to just 1 x a night. Getting up, change the nappy and feed the kid.
Put it back to sleep and go back to bed yourself, to wake 5 hours later to do it again, and not go back to bed.
Or are you going to hire a nanny?

If you want to breastfeed, while working, you are put in a closet (if your lucky) or in the bathroom to milk yourself.

Yes you can buy formula. Got to heat the water, shake the milk and bottle feed the baby. The bottles and teats have to be sterilized after each use. Mostly done by cooking in boiling water for 10 minutes.
The baby will miss out on antibodies and taste (breast milk does take on some flavor from mums diet), but it will grow.

I'm going to do absolutely none of those things. Because I neither want, nor will I ever have children. Strange you didn't consider that option. Not everyone plans to live their lives exactly as you do.

Then why do you care, we dont write the law just for you. Itz written to cover most situations. Alimoney isnt given out in every case, only when the court believes its warrented. Do you seriously believe that all divorces end up with alimoney?

Not everyone plans to live out their lives exactly as you do.

[The Republic of Fore]

She's not entitled because that's her problem. I don't care if the decision was made jointly. I didn't force you to stay home. You chose to do it. It's your problem if that means you can't support yourself. Once we're not together, It's not my issue if you sleep under a bridge and eat from dumpsters.

Thankfully, that is not how the law works. You sign a marriage contract you have obligations. Unwilling to perform those obligations, dont sign the contract.

Thankfully laws can be changed. Marriage will continue to exist just fine without alimony.