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Old people shouldn't be able to vote

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Salandriagado
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Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:28 pm

Purpelia wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Why should someone who can work, pay taxes, be tried as an adult, join the Army and die for their country (as well as drink or marry) be unable to have any say on the laws that decide their life?

Because young people are too easily swayed by rhetoric and appeals to emotion and ideology due to the fact they have insufficient life experience to counter them. Notice how the numbers of SJW, neocommunists, neonazis etc. drops off with age until only the hardcore guys are left by the time you reach middle age. Every single radical movement, political ism and insane religious and ideological coup has always come on the backs of the 18-25 year olds.

Unless you're arguing that those under 30 should not be allowed to work, not pay taxes, should not be tried as an adult, should not be able to join the Army, should not be allowed to marry, or drink?

Actually I would relax or remove most restrictions from that list entirely. The only thing I wouldn't allow young people to do is vote, work and fight. Also I guess pedophilia is not cool. But drinking, being tried as an adult and that stuff I say should be from birth.

Tying the voting age to the age of majority is historically the reason why the minimum age has been 18... So, I can't see the reason for raising it, unless you want to raise the age of majority likewise.

Those unwilling to break with tradition are doomed to relive the mistakes of our past.


Except that the radical right-wing organisation currently running the US is almost exclusively composed of elderly people, and relies on elderly people as their primary voter base.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Necroghastia
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Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:31 pm

Purpelia wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Why should someone who can work, pay taxes, be tried as an adult, join the Army and die for their country (as well as drink or marry) be unable to have any say on the laws that decide their life?

Because young people are too easily swayed by rhetoric and appeals to emotion and ideology due to the fact they have insufficient life experience to counter them. Notice how the numbers of SJW, neocommunists, neonazis etc. drops off with age until only the hardcore guys are left by the time you reach middle age. Every single radical movement, political ism and insane religious and ideological coup has always come on the backs of the 18-25 year olds.

Got a source for the bolded? Also lmao, unironically using "but the essjaydoubleyoos" as an argument.

Unless you're arguing that those under 30 should not be allowed to work, not pay taxes, should not be tried as an adult, should not be able to join the Army, should not be allowed to marry, or drink?

Actually I would relax or remove most restrictions from that list entirely. The only thing I wouldn't allow young people to do is vote, work and fight. Also I guess pedophilia is not cool. But drinking, being tried as an adult and that stuff I say should be from birth.

What the fuck... So people under 30 shouldn't be able to work, and you find nothing wrong with infants, toddlers, and other small children drinking?
Tying the voting age to the age of majority is historically the reason why the minimum age has been 18... So, I can't see the reason for raising it, unless you want to raise the age of majority likewise.

Those unwilling to break with tradition are doomed to relive the mistakes of our past.

When it's tradition for tradition's sake, you may have a point. As it is, things are the way they are for actual reasons.
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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:35 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Because young people are too easily swayed by rhetoric and appeals to emotion and ideology due to the fact they have insufficient life experience to counter them. Notice how the numbers of SJW, neocommunists, neonazis etc. drops off with age until only the hardcore guys are left by the time you reach middle age. Every single radical movement, political ism and insane religious and ideological coup has always come on the backs of the 18-25 year olds.


Actually I would relax or remove most restrictions from that list entirely. The only thing I wouldn't allow young people to do is vote, work and fight. Also I guess pedophilia is not cool. But drinking, being tried as an adult and that stuff I say should be from birth.


Those unwilling to break with tradition are doomed to relive the mistakes of our past.


Except that the radical right-wing organisation currently running the US is almost exclusively composed of elderly people, and relies on elderly people as their primary voter base.

Wha! Some disagrees with me. Take away their right to vote!
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Necroghastia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:50 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Except that the radical right-wing organisation currently running the US is almost exclusively composed of elderly people, and relies on elderly people as their primary voter base.

Wha! Some disagrees with me. Take away their right to vote!

...I'm pretty sure Salandriago is just pointing that out because Purpelia is claiming most radicals -including right-wing ones- are mainly young people. Slow ya horses.
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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:32 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Except that the radical right-wing organisation currently running the US is almost exclusively composed of elderly people, and relies on elderly people as their primary voter base.

Wha! Some disagrees with me. Take away their right to vote!


I'll take "things I never said (but Purpelia did)" for $400, Alex.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:48 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Actually I would relax or remove most restrictions from that list entirely. The only thing I wouldn't allow young people to do is vote, work and fight. Also I guess pedophilia is not cool. But drinking, being tried as an adult and that stuff I say should be from birth.

What the fuck... So people under 30 shouldn't be able to work, and you find nothing wrong with infants, toddlers, and other small children drinking?

And tried as adults from birth :blink:

So, a newborn baby that hits out with their palm (involuntarily, because that's what babies do) while being dressed can be arrested and tried as an adult for assault -- but Mummy and Daddy have to keep supporting their kids until they're 30. No working allowed.

It seems... somewhat skewed.

Necroghastia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Those unwilling to break with tradition are doomed to relive the mistakes of our past.

When it's tradition for tradition's sake, you may have a point. As it is, things are the way they are for actual reasons.

That, and Purpelia seems to be overlooking that we actually did try things much of their way in the past -- children could be tried as adults, children could drink, adults couldn't vote until they were over 21 (30 for a woman)… Then they changed all that because it sucked as a system.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Ghost Land
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Ghost Land » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:56 am

30 seems WAAAY too late for an adulthood cutoff anyway. I'd say keep the age of majority at 18, put the working age at 16, and drinking, voting, military service, and marriage at age 18. I'm still a bit fuzzy on when to start trying adolescents as adults; I mean, if a 16 year old shoots up somewhere and four people die, darn right he should be tried as an adult, but a 7 year old who litters or who punches another 7 year old shouldn't even get law enforcement involved. Maybe age 14, and only for serious crimes (murder, rape, robbery, arson, etc.)?

If we disenfranchise everyone under 30 because they're "kids", and we disenfranchise everyone over 30 because they're "old", we're leaving the entire 2020 election to only people born in 1990, and the ideas of one small micro-generation decide in their entirety who represents our country for the next four years with no input from any other age group. Bad idea.
Last edited by Ghost Land on Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tamgu
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Postby Tamgu » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:59 am

That's gonna be a hard no from me. It's restricting rights. As long as they can think healthily they should be able to vote.
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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:07 am

Necroghastia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Wha! Some disagrees with me. Take away their right to vote!

...I'm pretty sure Salandriago is just pointing that out because Purpelia is claiming most radicals -including right-wing ones- are mainly young people. Slow ya horses.


Except the radical organization he's talking about is the Republican party. Who are by no means radical.
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Fahran
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:09 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:...I'm pretty sure Salandriago is just pointing that out because Purpelia is claiming most radicals -including right-wing ones- are mainly young people. Slow ya horses.


Except the radical organization he's talking about is the Republican party. Who are by no means radical.

The genuine alt-right organizations in the US are probably younger on average than the DNC in terms of membership. Richard Spencer is only forty one for example, and he's widely seen as a leader of white identitarians in the United States.
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Brros
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Brros » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:15 pm

I believe that the elderly should have the right to vote. While there are definitely some members of the elderly that are to ignorant of the current political landscape and do not wish to adapt their personal politics into the modern day regardless of how drastic it is, there are also plenty of elderly folk that do try to stay informed and willing to challenge their beliefs who can provide insight into matters that, while not always perfect comparisons the situation, can help in determining early warning signs of issues later on. Even though I tend to not agree with their outlook, they are still functioning citizens that should have a right to vote. The only real cases I would consider repealing their right to vote are for when the individual is mentally not of clear mind to make these desicions (mental illness, brain trauma, etc.).

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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:23 pm

Fahran wrote:Richard Spencer is only forty one for example, and he's widely seen as a leader of white identitarians in the United States.


Nazis. They're called nazis.
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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:35 pm

Page wrote:
Fahran wrote:Richard Spencer is only forty one for example, and he's widely seen as a leader of white identitarians in the United States.


Nazis. They're called nazis.


Not really. Even their racism is different.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
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Page
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Postby Page » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:41 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Page wrote:
Nazis. They're called nazis.


Not really. Even their racism is different.


Their core beliefs are racial purity and that Jews conspire to destroy white people.
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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:56 pm

Page wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Not really. Even their racism is different.


Their core beliefs are racial purity and that Jews conspire to destroy white people.


Questionable. Besides which, those weren't the core beliefs of the Nazis.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
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The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:16 pm

Page wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Not really. Even their racism is different.


Their core beliefs are racial purity and that Jews conspire to destroy white people.

Yes, a lot of racists think that, not just Nazis.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:22 pm

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Page wrote:
Their core beliefs are racial purity and that Jews conspire to destroy white people.

Yes, a lot of racists think that, not just Nazis.


I mean, 90% of the people the Nazis killed were white. This is the core issue here. The Nazis weren't white supremacists. Their ideas of race are entirely different from American racist ideas.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:31 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Yes, a lot of racists think that, not just Nazis.


I mean, 90% of the people the Nazis killed were white. This is the core issue here. The Nazis weren't white supremacists. Their ideas of race are entirely different from American racist ideas.


That "Aryan" was replaced by a slightly broader category of "White European" is not meaningful. It's still a white supremacist ideology fueled by anti-Semitism in which adherents attempt to create a state exclusively for their preferred race.

Is your argument really "the two are totally different because Slavs count as white now"?
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:34 pm

Page wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
I mean, 90% of the people the Nazis killed were white. This is the core issue here. The Nazis weren't white supremacists. Their ideas of race are entirely different from American racist ideas.


That "Aryan" was replaced by a slightly broader category of "White European" is not meaningful. It's still a white supremacist ideology fueled by anti-Semitism in which adherents attempt to create a state exclusively for their preferred race.

Is your argument really "the two are totally different because Slavs count as white now"?

The argument is that most white supremacists have different standards, and Nazis adhere to a specific standard.
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Postby Page » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:41 pm

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Page wrote:
That "Aryan" was replaced by a slightly broader category of "White European" is not meaningful. It's still a white supremacist ideology fueled by anti-Semitism in which adherents attempt to create a state exclusively for their preferred race.

Is your argument really "the two are totally different because Slavs count as white now"?

The argument is that most white supremacists have different standards, and Nazis adhere to a specific standard.


They adhere to white supremacy, anti-Semitism, the belief that it is important for whites to breed as much as possible, deporting nonwhites, Lebensraum, anti-liberalism, anti-communism.

How do modern nazis differ from old nazis in any way except a slightly broader definition of the master race?
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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:41 pm

Page wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
I mean, 90% of the people the Nazis killed were white. This is the core issue here. The Nazis weren't white supremacists. Their ideas of race are entirely different from American racist ideas.


That "Aryan" was replaced by a slightly broader category of "White European" is not meaningful. It's still a white supremacist ideology fueled by anti-Semitism in which adherents attempt to create a state exclusively for their preferred race.

Is your argument really "the two are totally different because Slavs count as white now"?


... So you don't know anything about Nazism. Got it. You do realize that while there was some discrimination the Nazis were mostly content to coexist with Africans, and even had African soldiers in their military? That Africans could join the Hitler youth?

Pretending that neo Nazis have even the remotely same worldview is nonsensical. They ape a dictator who would have killed most of them without a second thought.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
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Czechostan
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechostan » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:30 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Page wrote:
That "Aryan" was replaced by a slightly broader category of "White European" is not meaningful. It's still a white supremacist ideology fueled by anti-Semitism in which adherents attempt to create a state exclusively for their preferred race.

Is your argument really "the two are totally different because Slavs count as white now"?


... So you don't know anything about Nazism. Got it. You do realize that while there was some discrimination the Nazis were mostly content to coexist with Africans, and even had African soldiers in their military? That Africans could join the Hitler youth?

Pretending that neo Nazis have even the remotely same worldview is nonsensical. They ape a dictator who would have killed most of them without a second thought.

While I agree that today's American white nationalists aren't Nazis, let's not be acting like the Nazis were content to coexist with Africans. They weren't allowed to breed with Germans nor could they go to university. Plus they forced many people of mixed African descent to be sterilized. So, yeah, the Nazis were dicks to anyone who didn't fit in with their idea of a "pure Aryan."

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Loben The 2nd
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Postby Loben The 2nd » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:42 pm

Page wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:The argument is that most white supremacists have different standards, and Nazis adhere to a specific standard.


They adhere to white supremacy, anti-Semitism, the belief that it is important for whites to breed as much as possible, deporting nonwhites, Lebensraum, anti-liberalism, anti-communism.

How do modern nazis differ from old nazis in any way except a slightly broader definition of the master race?


now i fail to see anything wrong with *this* particular part.
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Fahran
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:50 pm

Page wrote:Nazis. They're called nazis.

A lot of them are not actually fascists so that would preclude them from being Nazis. Not everyone who is racist is a Nazi. That doesn't mean they have or had good ideas. Spencer is too inconsistent on a lot of issues to really nail down beyond asserting that he's a white nationalist or white identitarian, specifically he has sympathized with DNC and LP candidates in the past and seems to oppose war on principle. He also inconsistently views Arabs as white or non-white depending on the context and views Slavs as white based on religion. He seems somewhat anti-democratic and yet holds up the Roman Empire as an example when its politics were often a good deal more deliberative than those of Nazi Germany in terms of what the leader could do on a whim. He does like Nazi imagery a lot, but then a lot of weirdos who aren't fascists seem to have adopted it of late.
Last edited by Fahran on Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Union of Pepe
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Union of Pepe » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:58 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:Just like there is an age restriction for when people can vote there should also be an age restriction for when people have to stop voting.

These group of people are most actively chased after by politicians to the detriment of young people who are the main or future participants in the economy and future of a country.

Do you agree with this proposition?

No that is an absolutely retarded idea. Democracy is the will of the people. And if more people are older and vote with somebody “old fashioned”. You probably say this because so much of the younger generation is brainwashed by their professors ideologies and socialism. SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK. Look at current day Cuba... you will still see the scars of socialism left their. Look at the USSR... I know you’ll say “they didn’t have socialism bla bla bla...” They did at one point but they took the extra step and went to communism, a similar economical structure. The only major difference between communism and socialism is how they use the money.
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