#protectjamesyounger

[The New California Republic]

I don't see anything in that which says it "ruined their life". And I don't see how it is applicable to the case we are discussing here.

...

You having a giggle?

I dunno, are you, with this source that doesn't say what you think it says?

it talks about how the current system of 'okay here's your hormones, here's your surgery, off you go' is not working as it does not offer the help that people truly need and instead of helping people understand what they truly feel, it's just "Wellll, you'd be better off as a boy".

That's not how it is friendo. There is a lot of assessment work done by doctors and psychiatrists when someone is thinking about transitioning, so quite frankly you are talking nonsense here.

A 3,200% increase in the number of referrals is neither a natural nor healthy number. And it gets even worse with females as there has been a 5,337% increase in the number of female-to-male transitions in my country of the UK in just the last 10 years, that should highlight a problem as nowhere near this many people 10 years ago felt like this or even this many boys!

Maybe people are just more aware of it now, and can feel that they can do something about it? These people were likely always there.

[Necroghastia]

So we're just going to focus on an irrelevant article with little in the way of quantifiable evidence over the topic at hand. Alright.

[Salandriagado]

Quit the disgusting victim-blaming bullshit. People who describe physical abuse as "the mildest of offences" need to be in a cell of the non-padded kind.



Physical abuse that's literally used as fucking torture is not "a basic grounding".

.... So you don't understand what a plank pushup is then. Got it.

Yes, I do. It's a stress position.

[Baranil]

...

You having a giggle?

I dunno, are you, with this source that doesn't say what you think it says?

it talks about how the current system of 'okay here's your hormones, here's your surgery, off you go' is not working as it does not offer the help that people truly need and instead of helping people understand what they truly feel, it's just "Wellll, you'd be better off as a boy".

That's not how it is friendo. There is a lot of assessment work done by doctors and psychiatrists when someone is thinking about transitioning, so quite frankly you are talking nonsense here.

A 3,200% increase in the number of referrals is neither a natural nor healthy number. And it gets even worse with females as there has been a 5,337% increase in the number of female-to-male transitions in my country of the UK in just the last 10 years, that should highlight a problem as nowhere near this many people 10 years ago felt like this or even this many boys!

Maybe people are just more aware of it now, and can feel that they can do something about it? These people were likely always there.

The quote I used was taken straight from the article and was from someone who has transitioned and wishes to detransition, just because it doesn't fit your personal worldview does not make it incorrect.

Also, if people were more aware of it now, then the increase for the transition rates for both of the sexes would be similar, rather than having the female-to-male transition rate growing at a far greater speed than the male-to-female transition rate.

[Vassenor]

I don't see anything in that which says it "ruined their life". And I don't see how it is applicable to the case we are discussing here.

...

You having a giggle? It shows people who have transitioned and regret it, it talks about how the current system of 'okay here's your hormones, here's your surgery, off you go' is not working as it does not offer the help that people truly need and instead of helping people understand what they truly feel, it's just "Wellll, you'd be better off as a boy".

A 3,200% increase in the number of referrals is neither a natural nor healthy number. And it gets even worse with females as there has been a 5,337% increase in the number of female-to-male transitions in my country of the UK in just the last 10 years, that should highlight a problem as nowhere near this many people 10 years ago felt like this or even this many boys! With the large amount of people regretting transitioning, and the sky-high suicide rate for transgenders, to carry on with the current way of dealing with things is complete and utter madness.

So you're asserting things without evidence again. Because your article says nothing conclusive about regret. Do your numbers account for those who detransitioned not out of regret but out of personal safety, familial pressure or other such factors?

[Neutraligon]

I dunno, are you, with this source that doesn't say what you think it says?


That's not how it is friendo. There is a lot of assessment work done by doctors and psychiatrists when someone is thinking about transitioning, so quite frankly you are talking nonsense here.


Maybe people are just more aware of it now, and can feel that they can do something about it? These people were likely always there.

The quote I used was taken straight from the article and was from someone who has transitioned and wishes to detransition, just because it doesn't fit your personal worldview does not make it incorrect.

Also, if people were more aware of it now, then the increase for the transition rates for both of the sexes would be similar, rather than having the female-to-male transition rate growing at a far greater speed than the male-to-female transition rate.

Why do you assume that it would be equal?

[The East Marches II]

I'm trying to come to some explanation as to how relatively mild punishments by the standards I grew up with are somehow considered sufficient abuse to commit suicide over.

You having been abused does not invalidate other people's abuse.

The answer is either the girls are crazy, they're conspiring, or the stated incidents were somehow worse than described in the court records.

Or, you know, people are different. Quit the fucking victim blaming bullshit.

Maybe you should respect other cultural norms. How very Eurocentric of you to critique like that. Many diverse and cherish worthy cultures employ unique techniques to harden up their young men :^)

[Salandriagado]

The human body also "naturally" inevitably dies when it gets appendicitis. What's your point?

Well... yeah. That's something that naturally happens. However, I fail to see the relevancy here as removing an operation to remove your appendix would save your life, whilst transitioning when deep down you don't want to will ruin your life.

As does not transitioning when you are trans - indeed, significantly more so, and that is significantly more common. You still haven't shown an actual difference.

[Ifreann]

Yes, but we can safely assume due to those numbers, and with the 'hundreds' of people that Charlie has been into contact with who wish to detransition, that they exist and will become a growing group of people over the next ten years as the number of transgender people in the UK has grown extraordinarily over the past ten years.

No, sorry, we can't safely assume that some person interviewed by Sky claiming to be in contact with hundreds of people who want to detransition accurately reflects the number of people who want to detransition. That would, in fact, be a stupid thing to assume. Further, we cannot assume that an increase in numbers of referrals to Tavistock and Portman as compared to 2009 means an increase in the number of transgender people in the UK. This really should be obvious.

[The New California Republic]

The quote I used was taken straight from the article and was from someone who has transitioned and wishes to detransition, just because it doesn't fit your personal worldview does not make it incorrect.

Well that gives an entirely incorrect view of how the situation is, as the article itself mentions therapy sessions, and the NHS even mentions them.

Also, if people were more aware of it now, then the increase for the transition rates for both of the sexes would be similar, rather than having the female-to-male transition rate growing at a far greater speed than the male-to-female transition rate.

Not necessarily, as there may still be differences in terms of how acceptable it is perceived to be by each gender, which could account for the discrepancy in the numbers.

[The Emerald Legion]

.... So you don't understand what a plank pushup is then. Got it.

Yes, I do. It's a stress position.

No it's not. It's an Excercise.https://youtu.be/uco2g3YexwA

Certainly uncomfortable, but... Yeah. Not torture.

[Baranil]

The quote I used was taken straight from the article and was from someone who has transitioned and wishes to detransition, just because it doesn't fit your personal worldview does not make it incorrect.

Also, if people were more aware of it now, then the increase for the transition rates for both of the sexes would be similar, rather than having the female-to-male transition rate growing at a far greater speed than the male-to-female transition rate.

Why do you assume that it would be equal?

Due to gender dysphoria not just existing for one gender, nor there being any logical reason as to why the female-to-male transition rate would be growing at a supersonic speed whilst the male-to-female transition rate is growing at a much more moderate speed.

There's also a female-to-male transgender in my Form, Maths, English and Literature classes who I am almost certain will regret their decision when they grow up as they had been confused about their sexuality and gender identity for years and yet one day, out of the blue decided to start transitioning yet still remains confused, makes next to no effort to look masculine and doesn't bother to correct people when they misgender them. They are one of eight people who were born female yet no longer identify that way who have attended my school during my time here whilst I know of one male who thought that he "might be a girl" for a few months before deciding that he was not.

I also have a close e-friend who has told me that there are ten female-to-male transgendered individuals at her school yet there are no male-to-female transgendered individuals at her school whilst my other close e-friend said that there are two transgendered individuals at his school and both of them are female-to-male.

Surely if in this day and age people who wanted to be the other gender were transitioning whilst people who did not truly want to transition did not then at least *one* of the twenty people who don't identify with their birth gender who attend(ed) one of our schools would be a male-to-female transgendered individual rather than having twenty people who were born female who do not identify that way?

And I know that these three schools that are outliers as the number of female-to-male transitions in the UK has increased 5,337% over the course of the past 10 years whilst the total number of transitions has only increased 1,063%. Whilst, for reference, if the number of transitioning individuals was equal 10 years ago, then the transitioning rate for females has grown at a 5.02x faster speed than the transitioning rate for males. (as under this assumption the transitioning rate for males would have only grown by 1,063%).

With all of this taken into account I can conclude that one of four things are the case:
1) There are far more females who wish to be males than males who wish to be females.
2) A lot of males who wish to be female are keeping it hidden secret.
3) A lot of females who transition to males are regretting it.
4) A mix of the above factors.
And unless 1 is the main factor, there is a major issue here.

[Vassenor]

Remember, the plural of anecdote is data.

[Ifreann]

Why do you assume that it would be equal?

Due to gender dysphoria not just existing for one gender, nor there being any logical reason as to why the female-to-male transition rate would be growing at a supersonic speed whilst the male-to-female transition rate is growing at a much more moderate speed.

There's also a female-to-male transgender in my Form, Maths, English and Literature classes who I am almost certain will regret their decision when they grow up as they had been confused about their sexuality and gender identity for years and yet one day, out of the blue decided to start transitioning yet still remains confused, makes next to no effort to look masculine and doesn't bother to correct people when they misgender them. They are one of eight people who were born female yet no longer identify that way who have attended my school during my time here whilst I know of one male who thought that he "might be a girl" for a few months before deciding that he was not.

I also have a close e-friend who has told me that there are ten female-to-male transgendered individuals at her school yet there are no male-to-female transgendered individuals at her school whilst my other close e-friend said that there are two transgendered individuals at his school and both of them are female-to-male.

Surely if in this day and age people who wanted to be the other gender were transitioning whilst people who did not truly want to transition did not then at least *one* of the twenty people who don't identify with their birth gender who attend(ed) one of our schools would be a male-to-female transgendered individual rather than having twenty people who were born female who do not identify that way?

And I know that these three schools that are outliers as the number of female-to-male transitions in the UK has increased 5,337% over the course of the past 10 years whilst the total number of transitions has only increased 1,063%. Whilst, for reference, if the number of transitioning individuals was equal 10 years ago, then the transitioning rate for females has grown at a 5.02x faster speed than the transitioning rate for males. (as under this assumption the transitioning rate for males would have only grown by 1,063%).

With all of this taken into account I can conclude that one of four things are the case:
1) There are far more females who wish to be males than males who wish to be females.
2) A lot of males who wish to be female are keeping it hidden secret.
3) A lot of females who transition to males are regretting it.
4) A mix of the above factors.
And unless 1 is the main factor, there is a major issue here.

You are running miles with numbers that you clearly do not understand. You're basing all of this off a sentence that you haven't even read properly.

[Baranil]

Yes, but we can safely assume due to those numbers, and with the 'hundreds' of people that Charlie has been into contact with who wish to detransition, that they exist and will become a growing group of people over the next ten years as the number of transgender people in the UK has grown extraordinarily over the past ten years.

No, sorry, we can't safely assume that some person interviewed by Sky claiming to be in contact with hundreds of people who want to detransition accurately reflects the number of people who want to detransition. That would, in fact, be a stupid thing to assume. Further, we cannot assume that an increase in numbers of referrals to Tavistock and Portman as compared to 2009 means an increase in the number of transgender people in the UK. This really should be obvious.

No, we can safely assume that as more people transition, more people will regret their transition several years down the line and wish to detransition.

[Vassenor]

No, sorry, we can't safely assume that some person interviewed by Sky claiming to be in contact with hundreds of people who want to detransition accurately reflects the number of people who want to detransition. That would, in fact, be a stupid thing to assume. Further, we cannot assume that an increase in numbers of referrals to Tavistock and Portman as compared to 2009 means an increase in the number of transgender people in the UK. This really should be obvious.

No, we can safely assume that as more people transition, more people will regret their transition several years down the line and wish to detransition.

And you base this on what hard evidence? Assumptions are not evidence.

[Baranil]

Due to gender dysphoria not just existing for one gender, nor there being any logical reason as to why the female-to-male transition rate would be growing at a supersonic speed whilst the male-to-female transition rate is growing at a much more moderate speed.

There's also a female-to-male transgender in my Form, Maths, English and Literature classes who I am almost certain will regret their decision when they grow up as they had been confused about their sexuality and gender identity for years and yet one day, out of the blue decided to start transitioning yet still remains confused, makes next to no effort to look masculine and doesn't bother to correct people when they misgender them. They are one of eight people who were born female yet no longer identify that way who have attended my school during my time here whilst I know of one male who thought that he "might be a girl" for a few months before deciding that he was not.

I also have a close e-friend who has told me that there are ten female-to-male transgendered individuals at her school yet there are no male-to-female transgendered individuals at her school whilst my other close e-friend said that there are two transgendered individuals at his school and both of them are female-to-male.

Surely if in this day and age people who wanted to be the other gender were transitioning whilst people who did not truly want to transition did not then at least *one* of the twenty people who don't identify with their birth gender who attend(ed) one of our schools would be a male-to-female transgendered individual rather than having twenty people who were born female who do not identify that way?

And I know that these three schools that are outliers as the number of female-to-male transitions in the UK has increased 5,337% over the course of the past 10 years whilst the total number of transitions has only increased 1,063%. Whilst, for reference, if the number of transitioning individuals was equal 10 years ago, then the transitioning rate for females has grown at a 5.02x faster speed than the transitioning rate for males. (as under this assumption the transitioning rate for males would have only grown by 1,063%).

With all of this taken into account I can conclude that one of four things are the case:
1) There are far more females who wish to be males than males who wish to be females.
2) A lot of males who wish to be female are keeping it hidden secret.
3) A lot of females who transition to males are regretting it.
4) A mix of the above factors.
And unless 1 is the main factor, there is a major issue here.

You are running miles with numbers that you clearly do not understand. You're basing all of this off a sentence that you haven't even read properly.

No I am not. I am basing it off of the number of transgender individuals at the three schools, their genders and how the transition rate for females has grown far faster than the overall transition rate, which females contribute to. So stop with the false assumptions and start actually reading what I have said.

[Vassenor]

You are running miles with numbers that you clearly do not understand. You're basing all of this off a sentence that you haven't even read properly.

No I am not. I am basing it off of the number of transgender individuals at the three schools, their genders and how the transition rate for females has grown far faster than the overall transition rate, which females contribute to. So stop with the false assumptions and start actually reading what I have said.

Says the person working from the false assumption that every detransition is 100% down to regret.

[The New California Republic]

Why do you assume that it would be equal?

Due to gender dysphoria not just existing for one gender, nor there being any logical reason as to why the female-to-male transition rate would be growing at a supersonic speed whilst the male-to-female transition rate is growing at a much more moderate speed.

There's also a female-to-male transgender in my Form, Maths, English and Literature classes who I am almost certain will regret their decision when they grow up as they had been confused about their sexuality and gender identity for years and yet one day, out of the blue decided to start transitioning yet still remains confused, makes next to no effort to look masculine and doesn't bother to correct people when they misgender them. They are one of eight people who were born female yet no longer identify that way who have attended my school during my time here whilst I know of one male who thought that he "might be a girl" for a few months before deciding that he was not.

I also have a close e-friend who has told me that there are ten female-to-male transgendered individuals at her school yet there are no male-to-female transgendered individuals at her school whilst my other close e-friend said that there are two transgendered individuals at his school and both of them are female-to-male.

Surely if in this day and age people who wanted to be the other gender were transitioning whilst people who did not truly want to transition did not then at least *one* of the twenty people who don't identify with their birth gender who attend(ed) one of our schools would be a male-to-female transgendered individual rather than having twenty people who were born female who do not identify that way?

And I know that these three schools that are outliers as the number of female-to-male transitions in the UK has increased 5,337% over the course of the past 10 years whilst the total number of transitions has only increased 1,063%. Whilst, for reference, if the number of transitioning individuals was equal 10 years ago, then the transitioning rate for females has grown at a 5.02x faster speed than the transitioning rate for males. (as under this assumption the transitioning rate for males would have only grown by 1,063%).

With all of this taken into account I can conclude that one of four things are the case:
1) There are far more females who wish to be males than males who wish to be females.
2) A lot of males who wish to be female are keeping it hidden secret.
3) A lot of females who transition to males are regretting it.
4) A mix of the above factors.
And unless 1 is the main factor, there is a major issue here.

Wow, a whole heap of anecdotes to discard because they don't constitute evidence. What adds insult to injury though is that you reach conclusions based on them. Wew lad...

[Ifreann]

No, sorry, we can't safely assume that some person interviewed by Sky claiming to be in contact with hundreds of people who want to detransition accurately reflects the number of people who want to detransition. That would, in fact, be a stupid thing to assume. Further, we cannot assume that an increase in numbers of referrals to Tavistock and Portman as compared to 2009 means an increase in the number of transgender people in the UK. This really should be obvious.

No, we can safely assume that as more people transition, more people will regret their transition several years down the line and wish to detransition.

In the same sense that if more people buy cars, more people will regret their decision to buy a car. If people are allowed to make decisions for themselves then some will make decisions they regret. So what?

[The New California Republic]

No I am not. I am basing it off of the number of transgender individuals at the three schools, their genders and how the transition rate for females has grown far faster than the overall transition rate, which females contribute to. So stop with the false assumptions and start actually reading what I have said.

Your sample size is pathetically small, so much so that it is utterly statistically insignificant.

[Baranil]

No I am not. I am basing it off of the number of transgender individuals at the three schools, their genders and how the transition rate for females has grown far faster than the overall transition rate, which females contribute to. So stop with the false assumptions and start actually reading what I have said.

Says the person working from the false assumption that every detransition is 100% down to regret.

Never said that. However, people who wish to transition will almost always have regret play a factor in their detransition due to young people making mistakes, and it being a long process to undo if you feel happier as your new gender and put all of that time and money in changing your gender. If pressure from certain people was as much of a factor in detransitioning as some people make it out to be then surely you would either ignore, report or respond to those remarks with nasty words of your own, or you could just flat out cut them out of your life.

[Ifreann]

Says the person working from the false assumption that every detransition is 100% down to regret.

Never said that. However, people who wish to transition will almost always have regret play a factor in their detransition due to young people making mistakes, and it being a long process to undo if you feel happier as your new gender and put all of that time and money in changing your gender. If pressure from certain people was as much of a factor in detransitioning as some people make it out to be then surely you would either ignore, report or respond to those remarks with nasty words of your own, or you could just flat out cut them out of your life.

Wild how you know so much about detransitioning when you have no data.

[The New California Republic]

Never said that. However, people who wish to transition will almost always have regret play a factor in their detransition due to young people making mistakes, and it being a long process to undo if you feel happier as your new gender and put all of that time and money in changing your gender. If pressure from certain people was as much of a factor in detransitioning as some people make it out to be then surely you would either ignore, report or respond to those remarks with nasty words of your own, or you could just flat out cut them out of your life.

Wild how you know so much about detransitioning when you have no data.

Yeah it's hilarious how this is all based on one article and a handful of anecdotes.

[Ifreann]

Wild how you know so much about detransitioning when you have no data.

Yeah it's hilarious how this is all based on one article and a handful of anecdotes.

Almost like this isn't knowledge at all, but assumptions masquerading as knowledge.