#protectjamesyounger

[Vassenor]

And what is "identity politics"?

Are you implying that there must be medical gatekeeping to be transgender?
Isn't this what you call "truscum"?

Identity politics is a political approach and analysis based on people prioritizing the concerns most relevant to their particular racial, religious, ethnic, sexual, social, cultural or other identity

So I see you've moved from reductio ad absurdum to just straight up NO U.

[SD_Film Artists]

Are you implying that there must be medical gatekeeping to be transgender?
Isn't this what you call "truscum"?

So I see you've moved from reductio ad absurdum to just straight up NO U.

I don't see how that answers my question.

[Vassenor]

So I see you've moved from reductio ad absurdum to just straight up NO U.

I don't see how that answers my question.

Because your question is just an attempt to derail criticism of your argument by alleging hypocrisy.

[The Emerald Legion]

So, what you're saying is that if I were to go and self harm, because of your words here, it's somehow your fault rather than mine for being an unstable nut?

Also, I'm not particularly desperate. It's ridiculous how the lot of you keep trying to read insight you clearly lack into my motivations or actions.

You're inventing mental instabilities and proposing conspiracies without evidence in an effort to defend Jeffrey Younger and deny his responsibility for how his children have been suffering under his care. I have no idea what is motivating you to do this, I'm suspicious that you're just getting a kick out of being contrary, but clearly you are desperate to be resorting to such tactics.

Why are you so desperate to veer into the realm of emotions and feelings rather than remaining impartial? Is it because the mother's entire argument relies upon emotional manipulation ?

TEL: "Why are you veering into the realm of emotions and feelings?"
TEL minutes earlier: "I am frankly offended at the implication that things that happened to me could constitute abuse"

I'm trying to come to some explanation as to how relatively mild punishments by the standards I grew up with are somehow considered sufficient abuse to commit suicide over.

The answer is either the girls are crazy, they're conspiring, or the stated incidents were somehow worse than described in the court records.

It's worth noting he wasn't actually charged with Child Abuse which is a crime in Texas. So pretending it's open and shut abuse is pretty ridiculous.

Also, there is a world of difference between "Here is an argument, plus emotive commentary." And " Here is just plain old emotions."

Why are you so desperate to veer into the realm of emotions and feelings rather than remaining impartial?

The sheer hypocrisy of this one single sentence could replace nuclear as a valid power source.

Nothing you've posted in this entire thread has been anything but unsubstantiated, emotion-based thinking from your end. Not one single thing.
You completely disregard the opinion of the court, you completely disregard the opinion of the professionals, you completely disregard anything that might not agree with you as hearsay or impartial nonsense, whilst basing your own arguments on nothing but sky castles you yourself constructed, based on nothing.

It is genuinely mind boggling how you can sit there and accuse others of not remaining impartial.

Clearly you either aren't looking at the case or at my arguments. One of the two.

[SD_Film Artists]

I don't see how that answers my question.

Because your question is just an attempt to derail criticism of your argument by alleging hypocrisy.

The whole point of my argument is an opposition to hypocrisy, so if anything I'm keeping it very much on track.

[Cekoviu]

Come back to me when there are clinical studies that say that transrace is a thing that is recognised, and then we'll talk. For now I'll just throw this transphobic shite in the garbage.

I thought that self-determined identification is at the very heart of the trans movement. A neurologist could possibly notice that the trans person's brain is more conforming with their gender identity, but even that is not conclusive as there's no evidence that gender-leaning brains are exclusively a trans thing.
A psychologist could diagnose gender dysphoria but I thought that medical "gatekeeping" is something that is looked down upon by the trans community.

In conclusion, how can you say that self-identification is ok for one group but not the other? Isn't that hypocrisy?

Racial and gender identities are not even slightly equivalent. Gender is an actual mental state whereas race is cosmetic and subjective. If you legitimately can't see that, you have no business arguing about gender issues.

[SD_Film Artists]

I thought that self-determined identification is at the very heart of the trans movement. A neurologist could possibly notice that the trans person's brain is more conforming with their gender identity, but even that is not conclusive as there's no evidence that gender-leaning brains are exclusively a trans thing.
A psychologist could diagnose gender dysphoria but I thought that medical "gatekeeping" is something that is looked down upon by the trans community.

In conclusion, how can you say that self-identification is ok for one group but not the other? Isn't that hypocrisy?

Racial and gender identities are not even slightly equivalent. Gender is an actual mental state whereas race is cosmetic and subjective. If you legitimately can't see that, you have no business arguing about gender issues.

I'd agree that there is a lot of subjectiveness on the issue of race though still I don't see how you can say that ethnicity and genetics is merely a social invention, if that's what you're implying.

[Cekoviu]

Racial and gender identities are not even slightly equivalent. Gender is an actual mental state whereas race is cosmetic and subjective. If you legitimately can't see that, you have no business arguing about gender issues.

I'd agree that there is a lot of subjectiveness on the issue of race though still I don't see how you can say that ethnicity and genetics is merely a social invention, if that's what you're implying.

They exist as biological entities, but are not the criteria used for race by most and do not constitute themselves psychologically by default, which is apparently not the case with gender.

[Ifreann]

You're inventing mental instabilities and proposing conspiracies without evidence in an effort to defend Jeffrey Younger and deny his responsibility for how his children have been suffering under his care. I have no idea what is motivating you to do this, I'm suspicious that you're just getting a kick out of being contrary, but clearly you are desperate to be resorting to such tactics.


TEL: "Why are you veering into the realm of emotions and feelings?"
TEL minutes earlier: "I am frankly offended at the implication that things that happened to me could constitute abuse"

I'm trying to come to some explanation as to how relatively mild punishments by the standards I grew up with are somehow considered sufficient abuse to commit suicide over.

And this is stupid, because suicidal ideation is not something that requires external validation. Like, what the fuck man, if I told you that I felt happy would you interrogate my reasons for feeling happy to see if I was allowed to have that feeling?

The answer is either the girls are crazy, they're conspiring, or the stated incidents were somehow worse than described in the court records.

You understand that that's just a list of facts established by the court, yeah? The basis of those facts would be somewhere else in the court records. Feel free to look through them on your own time if you want to know more.

It's worth noting he wasn't actually charged with Child Abuse which is a crime in Texas. So pretending it's open and shut abuse is pretty ridiculous.

Thought you didn't trust the courts when it came to paternal abuse?

Also, there is a world of difference between "Here is an argument, plus emotive commentary." And " Here is just plain old emotions."

Ah, so you are allowed to veer into the realm of emotions, but no one else is. Very rational. Much logic.

[The Emerald Legion]

I'm trying to come to some explanation as to how relatively mild punishments by the standards I grew up with are somehow considered sufficient abuse to commit suicide over.

And this is stupid, because suicidal ideation is not something that requires external validation. Like, what the fuck man, if I told you that I felt happy would you interrogate my reasons for feeling happy to see if I was allowed to have that feeling?

The answer is either the girls are crazy, they're conspiring, or the stated incidents were somehow worse than described in the court records.

You understand that that's just a list of facts established by the court, yeah? The basis of those facts would be somewhere else in the court records. Feel free to look through them on your own time if you want to know more.

It's worth noting he wasn't actually charged with Child Abuse which is a crime in Texas. So pretending it's open and shut abuse is pretty ridiculous.

Thought you didn't trust the courts when it came to paternal abuse?

Also, there is a world of difference between "Here is an argument, plus emotive commentary." And " Here is just plain old emotions."

Ah, so you are allowed to veer into the realm of emotions, but no one else is. Very rational. Much logic.

So again. If your words here were to cause me to contemplate suicide, you would find it utterly reasonable to blame you for it? Rather than, say, me? You didn't point a gun at me and pull the trigger. You said some vaguely insulting things on the internet. Are you going to tell me right now that you would be comfortable being not only culturally but in this case legally liable for how your words affect my emotional state?

Done that, been unable to find such.

That's such an asinine statement. Because "Believes courts will tend towards assuming a man is abusive." Means "The courts are pathological liars from whom no truth can flow." In Ifreann world apparently.

If the court is predisposed towards believing him an abuser, and yet no charges of abuse exist in spite of the mothers allegations.... What does that mean?

[Ifreann]

And this is stupid, because suicidal ideation is not something that requires external validation. Like, what the fuck man, if I told you that I felt happy would you interrogate my reasons for feeling happy to see if I was allowed to have that feeling?


You understand that that's just a list of facts established by the court, yeah? The basis of those facts would be somewhere else in the court records. Feel free to look through them on your own time if you want to know more.


Thought you didn't trust the courts when it came to paternal abuse?


Ah, so you are allowed to veer into the realm of emotions, but no one else is. Very rational. Much logic.

So again. If your words here were to cause me to contemplate suicide, you would find it utterly reasonable to blame you for it? Rather than, say, me? You didn't point a gun at me and pull the trigger. You said some vaguely insulting things on the internet. Are you going to tell me right now that you would be comfortable being not only culturally but in this case legally liable for how your words affect my emotional state?

Who's talking about cultural or legal liability? You're proposing insanity or conspiracies without evidence, and I'm telling you that people don't need your approval for their feelings to be real.

Done that, been unable to find such.

That's such an asinine statement. Because "Believes courts will tend towards assuming a man is abusive." Means "The courts are pathological liars from whom no truth can flow." In Ifreann world apparently.

You're the one telling us that the courts aren't to be trusted, that they're out to get men and accept unsubstantiated hearsay as fact. Are we to believe that the courts are only bad when they go against your guy but are in fact reliable and impartial when they support your guy?

If the court is predisposed towards believing him an abuser, and yet no charges of abuse exist in spite of the mothers allegations.... What does that mean?

That the court isn't predisposed towards believing him an abuser?

[The Emerald Legion]

So again. If your words here were to cause me to contemplate suicide, you would find it utterly reasonable to blame you for it? Rather than, say, me? You didn't point a gun at me and pull the trigger. You said some vaguely insulting things on the internet. Are you going to tell me right now that you would be comfortable being not only culturally but in this case legally liable for how your words affect my emotional state?

Who's talking about cultural or legal liability? You're proposing insanity or conspiracies without evidence, and I'm telling you that people don't need your approval for their feelings to be real.

Done that, been unable to find such.

That's such an asinine statement. Because "Believes courts will tend towards assuming a man is abusive." Means "The courts are pathological liars from whom no truth can flow." In Ifreann world apparently.

You're the one telling us that the courts aren't to be trusted, that they're out to get men and accept unsubstantiated hearsay as fact. Are we to believe that the courts are only bad when they go against your guy but are in fact reliable and impartial when they support your guy?

If the court is predisposed towards believing him an abuser, and yet no charges of abuse exist in spite of the mothers allegations.... What does that mean?

That the court isn't predisposed towards believing him an abuser?

> Proposes man lose control of his children for being an abuser.

> So called abuse is relatively minor punishments but is totally abuse because the kids decided to self harm or entertain thoughts of suicide.

> Somehow not holding him legally liable for their feelings.

... Basically yes? Typically, if a test that is weighted against a result comes up with that result anyway, it is a strong indicator of that result.

Then why are the facts listed from the mothers point of view rather than impartial?

[Gravlen]

And this is stupid, because suicidal ideation is not something that requires external validation. Like, what the fuck man, if I told you that I felt happy would you interrogate my reasons for feeling happy to see if I was allowed to have that feeling?


You understand that that's just a list of facts established by the court, yeah? The basis of those facts would be somewhere else in the court records. Feel free to look through them on your own time if you want to know more.


Thought you didn't trust the courts when it came to paternal abuse?


Ah, so you are allowed to veer into the realm of emotions, but no one else is. Very rational. Much logic.

So again. If your words here were to cause me to contemplate suicide, you would find it utterly reasonable to blame you for it? Rather than, say, me? You didn't point a gun at me and pull the trigger. You said some vaguely insulting things on the internet. Are you going to tell me right now that you would be comfortable being not only culturally but in this case legally liable for how your words affect my emotional state?

Is Ifreann your father, guardian, or in a position of power over you?

Completely unrelated, did you hear that there is a new case now, similar to the case and conviction of Michelle Carter, where soneone is being prosecuted for their words leading to people killing themselves?

If the court is predisposed towards believing him an abuser, and yet no charges of abuse exist in spite of the mothers allegations.... What does that mean?

It probably means nobody has filed charges. It's an unfortunate thing we often see in domestic abuse situations.

[Gravlen]

Then why are the facts listed from the mothers point of view rather than impartial?

Because they're supported by evidence. You don't have to take my word for it, the Fifth District Court of Appeals in Texas upheld the Findings of Facts on those grounds.

[Baranil]

Honestly transgenderism needs to be illegal for under 18s, 7 year olds don't know how much it will effect them and are easily influenced by those around them. With many people wishing to detransition and the suicide rate for trans people being as high as it is, there needs to be a lot of thought put into it if a person wants to transition, and people who haven't even got 2 digits in their age yet aren't capable of fully understanding the effects of transitioning and could possibly have been influenced by someone they trust whilst not knowing better.

If you really feel like you are the other gender then that's fine but people can regret transitioning, and to try and minimise the amount of people who regret it a legal age needs to be put in place to stop too young people from going through with the process, I've seen 8 people who were born female no longer identify at female at my high school during my time here and I'd be amazed if every single one of them truly felt that way and wished to no longer be female.

[The New California Republic]

Honestly transgenderism needs to be illegal for under 18s, 7 year olds don't know how much it will effect them and are easily influenced by those around them. With many people wishing to detransition and the suicide rate for trans people being as high as it is, there needs to be a lot of thought put into it if a person wants to transition, and people who haven't even got 2 digits in their age yet aren't capable of fully understanding the effects of transitioning and could possibly have been influenced by someone they trust whilst not knowing better.

If you really feel like you are the other gender then that's fine but people can regret transitioning, and to try and minimise the amount of people who regret it a legal age needs to be put in place to stop too young people from going through with the process, I've seen 8 people who were born female no longer identify at female at my high school during my time here and I'd be amazed if every single one of them truly felt that way and wished to no longer be female.

What do you think is happening in this case? From the way that you are speaking it makes it sound like you think that surgery and hormone blockers are being considered at this stage. If you do think that, then you are sorely mistaken.

[Necroghastia]

Honestly transgenderism

What the fuck is "transgenderism"

needs to be illegal for under 18s,

Kids can't decide what clothes they like and what names they prefer?

7 year olds don't know how much it will effect them

Please, tell me what would affect them to begin with.

and are easily influenced by those around them.

Which, as has been established several times, is not the case here.

With many people wishing to detransition and the suicide rate for trans people being as high as it is,

Hoo hoo hoo, wonder why that is. Can't be transphobic dickwads all over society, no sirree, it's an inherent part of the transies!

there needs to be a lot of thought put into it if a person wants to transition, and people who haven't even got 2 digits in their age yet aren't capable of fully understanding the effects of transitioning and could possibly have been influenced by someone they trust whilst not knowing better.

See points 2-4.

If you really feel like you are the other gender then that's fine but people can regret transitioning, and to try and minimise the amount of people who regret it a legal age needs to be put in place to stop too young people from going through with the process,

What. Fucking. "Process?"

I've seen 8 people who were born female no longer identify at female at my high school during my time here and I'd be amazed if every single one of them truly felt that way and wished to no longer be female.

The plural of anecdote is not data, and in any case, good on them for trying to explore their gender identity.

[Ifreann]

Who's talking about cultural or legal liability? You're proposing insanity or conspiracies without evidence, and I'm telling you that people don't need your approval for their feelings to be real.


You're the one telling us that the courts aren't to be trusted, that they're out to get men and accept unsubstantiated hearsay as fact. Are we to believe that the courts are only bad when they go against your guy but are in fact reliable and impartial when they support your guy?


That the court isn't predisposed towards believing him an abuser?

> Proposes man lose control of his children for being an abuser.

> So called abuse is relatively minor punishments but is totally abuse because the kids decided to self harm or entertain thoughts of suicide.

> Somehow not holding him legally liable for their feelings.

I don't think Jeffrey Younger should have custody of his children because he's clearly a bad father. That's not holding him legally liable for their feelings, that is recognising that he is failing to adequately care for his children, as is his responsibility, and thus terminating that responsibility.

... Basically yes? Typically, if a test that is weighted against a result comes up with that result anyway, it is a strong indicator of that result.

You're acting like you've made some kind of fair assessment of the court but really you're just saying that Younger is right and anything that agrees with him is right and anything that disagrees with him is wrong.

Then why are the facts listed from the mothers point of view rather than impartial?

They're not? What the fuck are you talking about?

[Salandriagado]

You're inventing mental instabilities and proposing conspiracies without evidence in an effort to defend Jeffrey Younger and deny his responsibility for how his children have been suffering under his care. I have no idea what is motivating you to do this, I'm suspicious that you're just getting a kick out of being contrary, but clearly you are desperate to be resorting to such tactics.


TEL: "Why are you veering into the realm of emotions and feelings?"
TEL minutes earlier: "I am frankly offended at the implication that things that happened to me could constitute abuse"

I'm trying to come to some explanation as to how relatively mild punishments by the standards I grew up with are somehow considered sufficient abuse to commit suicide over.

You having been abused does not invalidate other people's abuse.

The answer is either the girls are crazy, they're conspiring, or the stated incidents were somehow worse than described in the court records.

Or, you know, people are different. Quit the fucking victim blaming bullshit.

[Salandriagado]

And this is stupid, because suicidal ideation is not something that requires external validation. Like, what the fuck man, if I told you that I felt happy would you interrogate my reasons for feeling happy to see if I was allowed to have that feeling?


You understand that that's just a list of facts established by the court, yeah? The basis of those facts would be somewhere else in the court records. Feel free to look through them on your own time if you want to know more.


Thought you didn't trust the courts when it came to paternal abuse?


Ah, so you are allowed to veer into the realm of emotions, but no one else is. Very rational. Much logic.

So again. If your words here were to cause me to contemplate suicide, you would find it utterly reasonable to blame you for it? Rather than, say, me? You didn't point a gun at me and pull the trigger. You said some vaguely insulting things on the internet. Are you going to tell me right now that you would be comfortable being not only culturally but in this case legally liable for how your words affect my emotional state?

Done that, been unable to find such.

That's such an asinine statement. Because "Believes courts will tend towards assuming a man is abusive." Means "The courts are pathological liars from whom no truth can flow." In Ifreann world apparently.

If the court is predisposed towards believing him an abuser, and yet no charges of abuse exist in spite of the mothers allegations.... What does that mean?

If people here bullied you into committing suicide, then fucking yes, it would be their fault. How the fuck is that even a question?

[SD_Film Artists]

I'd agree that there is a lot of subjectiveness on the issue of race though still I don't see how you can say that ethnicity and genetics is merely a social invention, if that's what you're implying.

They exist as biological entities, but are not the criteria used for race by most and do not constitute themselves psychologically by default, which is apparently not the case with gender.

I suppose it depends on how you define race, but I thought that ethnicity and genetics are important.

I didn't claim that a psychologist could or should 'diagnose' race, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

[Gormwood]

Honestly transgenderism needs to be illegal for under 18s, 7 year olds don't know how much it will effect them and are easily influenced by those around them.

Baranil is renowned for its drinking age of 13 for beer, 14 for wine and 15 for all other alcoholic beverages

Rather peculiar you think minors shouldn't be allowed to decide the gender they feel to be but are perfectly fine getting drunk.

[Salandriagado]

Honestly transcisgenderism needs to be illegal for under 18s, 7 year olds don't know how much it will effect them and are easily influenced by those around them. With many people wishing to detransition and the suicide rate for trans people (who are unable to transition early) being as high as it is, there needs to be a lot of thought put into it if a person wants to go through cisgender pubertytransition, and people who haven't even got 2 digits in their age yet aren't capable of fully understanding the effects of normative pubertytransitioning and could possibly have been influenced by someone they trust whilst not knowing better.

If you really feel like you are a particularthe other gender then that's fine but people can regret not transitioning, and to try and minimise the amount of people who regret it a legal age needs to be put in place to stop too young people from going through with the process, I've seen 8hundreds of people who were born female no longercurrently identify as female at my high school during my time here and I'd be amazed if every single one of them truly felt that way and wished tono longer be female.

Kindly point out which of the changes above isn't a direct equivalence.

[Gormwood]

What do you think is happening in this case? From the way that you are speaking it makes it sound like you think that surgery and hormone blockers are being considered at this stage. If you do think that, then you are sorely mistaken.

What better way to invoke "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" than by ignoring facts to declare they're being operated on at an early age like castrati?

[Baranil]

Honestly transgenderism needs to be illegal for under 18s, 7 year olds don't know how much it will effect them and are easily influenced by those around them.

Baranil is renowned for its drinking age of 13 for beer, 14 for wine and 15 for all other alcoholic beverages

Rather peculiar you think minors shouldn't be allowed to decide the gender they feel to be but are perfectly fine getting drunk.

Weirdly enough, my nation, like many other people's nations on here, do not reflect my actual views.