#protectjamesyounger

[Ifreann]

A valid excuse? The fuck does that mean?

What do you think it means?

I think it means that you're saying that self-harm and suicidal ideation don't count, or something, unless they are caused by something you personally think is valid.

Which is just completely stupid.

The girls are independent entities. They aren't just some robots that he flicked the 'self harm and suicide' switches on.

They chose those courses of action of their own free will. Is their reasoning sound? Was their situation really that intolerable? Or... Were they being overdramatic teenagers, or given neither appears to be permanently injured, were they attempting to drive a wedge between their mother and him so as to remove the stricter of the two guardians or lessen their punishments.

It's ridiculous how desperate you have become in your defence of a clearly garbage human being.

[Neutraligon]

I think it's best we leave the child with his mother, and wait until they're fully capable of understanding and consenting. I'm certain someone will disagree, but this seems like a logical option.

The purpose of using hormone blockers in trans kids (rather then kids with early puberty) is to buy them time so that when they are fully capable of making the choice to medically transition they have not already gone through puberty. It makes it easier for the person who is transitioning, and makes it so they do not have to undo the parts of puberty that masculinizes/feminizes the body.

Also...I fail to see what is wrong with people wanting to change their physical body, even if they do not feel dysphoria....

[Salandriagado]

Not really. Her father making her transition more difficult than it needs to be doesn't change her gender. You can't make her be a boy, no matter what abuse you imagine subjecting her to.

No amount of plastic surgery, no matter how extreme will make him a girl either.

In any event, forcing this on an individual before they reach the age of consent is child abuse.

Nobody is forcing anything on Luna, and she's already a girl.

[SD_Film Artists]

We're back to dodging questions again. I'm still waiting on you to designate a field for my alleged strawman. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were busy with other things.

Asserting that if we accept transgender people we have to let people change their ethnicity is very much asserting that an absurd conclusion follows.

It's not about whether we accept people; we should accept people and be kind to them as standard. The issue is more if there is hypocrisy involved if one form of identity politics claims that it's holier than thou.

[The Emerald Legion]

What do you think it means?

I think it means that you're saying that self-harm and suicidal ideation don't count, or something, unless they are caused by something you personally think is valid.

Which is just completely stupid.

The girls are independent entities. They aren't just some robots that he flicked the 'self harm and suicide' switches on.

They chose those courses of action of their own free will. Is their reasoning sound? Was their situation really that intolerable? Or... Were they being overdramatic teenagers, or given neither appears to be permanently injured, were they attempting to drive a wedge between their mother and him so as to remove the stricter of the two guardians or lessen their punishments.

It's ridiculous how desperate you have become in your defence of a clearly garbage human being.

So, what you're saying is that if I were to go and self harm, because of your words here, it's somehow your fault rather than mine for being an unstable nut?

Also, I'm not particularly desperate. It's ridiculous how the lot of you keep trying to read insight you clearly lack into my motivations or actions.

Why are you so desperate to veer into the realm of emotions and feelings rather than remaining impartial? Is it because the mother's entire argument relies upon emotional manipulation ?

[Salandriagado]

So if the child wants to transition let them. If the child wants my help I'll give it.

Just leave the parents, doctors and whoever open to litigation for if they were wrong or manipulative.

You gotta be bloody shitting me. What if that kid was going through a faze and changes his/her mind in adult life?

If society doesn't deem you old enough to vote, drive, drink alcohol, smoke tabacoo, marry, have sexual intercourse, serve in the military, or even have a job, then you're definately not old to have a non-required life-altering medical procedures. What the f^^k has shat on society so badly that I'm required to explain that?

If their plan changes, I imagine they'll cut their hair and wear different clothes. There's no surgery involved.

[Neutraligon]

Asserting that if we accept transgender people we have to let people change their ethnicity is very much asserting that an absurd conclusion follows.

It's not about whether we accept people; we should accept people and be kind to them as standard. The issue is more if there is hypocrisy involved if one form of identity politics claims that it's holier than thou.

If people wish to change the color of their skin (among other changes), that is entirely their choice. I do not know what trans race entails though, mind defining it medically?

[Gravlen]

Why are you so desperate to veer into the realm of emotions and feelings rather than remaining impartial? Is it because the mother's entire argument relies upon emotional manipulation ?

The emotional manipulation of "following the advice of medical professionals, whom suggest I support my child by providing affirming psychological support, try to understand their feelings and give them a safe space to articulate their feelings and express themselves"?

Or were you back to making shit up again?

[West Leas Oros 2]

I think it's best we leave the child with his mother, and wait until they're fully capable of understanding and consenting. I'm certain someone will disagree, but this seems like a logical option.

The purpose of using hormone blockers in trans kids (rather then kids with early puberty) is to buy them time so that when they are fully capable of making the choice to medically transition they have not already gone through puberty. It makes it easier for the person who is transitioning, and makes it so they do not have to undo the parts of puberty that masculinizes/feminizes the body.

Also...I fail to see what is wrong with people wanting to change their physical body, even if they do not feel dysphoria....

That I can understand, but the very idea of "trans kids" seems strange to me, how a kid can be cognizant enough to know that. And as for what's wrong with people wanting to change their physical bodies, again, we're discussing children here, and usually, children are not afforded the same rights as those over the age of majority, and I don't think it's any different when it comes to changing one's body, especially in such profound and generally irreversible ways.

[West Leas Oros 2]

It's not about whether we accept people; we should accept people and be kind to them as standard. The issue is more if there is hypocrisy involved if one form of identity politics claims that it's holier than thou.

If people wish to change the color of their skin (among other changes), that is entirely their choice. I do not know what trans race entails though, mind defining it medically?

*Michael Jackson has entered the chat* :^)

[Gormwood]

It's not about whether we accept people; we should accept people and be kind to them as standard. The issue is more if there is hypocrisy involved if one form of identity politics claims that it's holier than thou.

If people wish to change the color of their skin (among other changes), that is entirely their choice. I do not know what trans race entails though, mind defining it medically?

[SD_Film Artists]

It's not about whether we accept people; we should accept people and be kind to them as standard. The issue is more if there is hypocrisy involved if one form of identity politics claims that it's holier than thou.

If people wish to change the color of their skin (among other changes), that is entirely their choice. I do not know what trans race entails though, mind defining it medically?

I don't profess to know the finer details, though I expect they'll find it rather phobic if they were denied recognition.

[Neutraligon]

The purpose of using hormone blockers in trans kids (rather then kids with early puberty) is to buy them time so that when they are fully capable of making the choice to medically transition they have not already gone through puberty. It makes it easier for the person who is transitioning, and makes it so they do not have to undo the parts of puberty that masculinizes/feminizes the body.

Also...I fail to see what is wrong with people wanting to change their physical body, even if they do not feel dysphoria....

That I can understand, but the very idea of "trans kids" seems strange to me, how a kid can be cognizant enough to know that. And as for what's wrong with people wanting to change their physical bodies, again, we're discussing children here, and usually, children are not afforded the same rights as those over the age of majority, and I don't think it's any different when it comes to changing one's body, especially in such profound and generally irreversible ways.

I am not sure why you would think kids are not cognizant enough to realize they are trans. Before 3-4 yes that is young since kids that young do not have theory of mind but somewhere between 3- 4 kids get theory of mind. I as talking about changing body for adults, most people do not support it in children, nd not only because they may end up not wanting that change later. I mean...what complications would show up for children who go through medical transition before their body has stabilized. It would be medically unethical to test this.

[Vassenor]

If people wish to change the color of their skin (among other changes), that is entirely their choice. I do not know what trans race entails though, mind defining it medically?

I don't profess to know the finer details, though I expect they'll find it rather phobic if they were denied recognition.

So if there's no medical or psychological basis for transracialism how are the two comparable beyond trying to assert that an absurd conclusion follows from transgender acceptance?

[Gravlen]

The purpose of using hormone blockers in trans kids (rather then kids with early puberty) is to buy them time so that when they are fully capable of making the choice to medically transition they have not already gone through puberty. It makes it easier for the person who is transitioning, and makes it so they do not have to undo the parts of puberty that masculinizes/feminizes the body.

Also...I fail to see what is wrong with people wanting to change their physical body, even if they do not feel dysphoria....

That I can understand, but the very idea of "trans kids" seems strange to me, how a kid can be cognizant enough to know that.

In children, gender dysphoria diagnosis involves at least six of the following and an associated significant distress or impairment in function, lasting at least six months.
A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender
A strong preference for wearing clothes typical of the opposite gender
A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play
A strong preference for the toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender
A strong preference for playmates of the other gender
A strong rejection of toys, games and activities typical of one’s assigned gender
A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy
A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender

Children do have feelings, and while they might not articulate it as "I want to transition" or anything like that, they are able to express discomfort or distress surrounding some of these factors.

And as for what's wrong with people wanting to change their physical bodies, again, we're discussing children here, and usually, children are not afforded the same rights as those over the age of majority, and I don't think it's any different when it comes to changing one's body, especially in such profound and generally irreversible ways.

I think there's general agreement that children shouldn't be surgically altered or subjected to non-reversible treatment before they're at an age where they can make such decisions themselves. That's also why treatment mainly consists of support and affirmation until the child becomes an adult (Social transitioning), with the potential prescription of puberty blockers in order to buy some time when the child becomes older.

[Salandriagado]

Wait, what? You said children shouldn’t be allowed to make this decision just before.

Children can make decisions when they're old enough to make decisions. Sorry, I thought I made that clearer

How the fuck old do you think people need to be to decide what clothes they want to wear, what they want to do with their hair, and what they want to be called? Because that's literally what's under discussion here.

How many fucking times do people have to be told that trans kids aren't getting surgeries until they're basically already adults?

First I'm hearing of it

This is the third time it's been posted in direct response to your bullshit. Stop lying.

But how can they decide if they're cis if they're not old enough?

They don't get to decide, they get what's natural

There continues to be nothing unnatural about being trans, and everything unnatural about forcing your preferences on children.

Because the transphobes keep drowning it in blatant lies.

Well, maybe, but in the case of people like me, the answer to your original question is once. You can't assume everyone has the same knowledge as you, and has heard the same things you have

When that knowledge has been directly provided to them, we absolutely can.

And that's exactly what's happening. The only real changes here at the moment are that the kid just gets called a different name and referred to by a different pronoun.

What about no? What about we don't give in to any desire a kid wants? What about we tell him it's inappropriate to claim to be a gender he isn't?

The only person claiming that anybody is a gender other than what they actually are is the father, who is wrongly insisting that Luna is male.

The dad's an abusive asshole and all the evidence is that Luna is actually trans.

And your sources?

Literally Luna's direct statements, and the judgement of a whole bunch of experts who interviewed her for the court.

A valid excuse? The fuck does that mean?

What do you think it means? The girls are independent entities. They aren't just some robots that he flicked the 'self harm and suicide' switches on.

They chose those courses of action of their own free will. Is their reasoning sound? Was their situation really that intolerable? Or... Were they being overdramatic teenagers, or given neither appears to be permanently injured, were they attempting to drive a wedge between their mother and him so as to remove the stricter of the two guardians or lessen their punishments.

Quit the victim-blaming bullshit. Now.

[Neutraligon]

If people wish to change the color of their skin (among other changes), that is entirely their choice. I do not know what trans race entails though, mind defining it medically?

*Michael Jackson has entered the chat* :^)

As I understand it, that was a medical condition right?

[Vassenor]

*Michael Jackson has entered the chat* :^)

As I understand it, that was a medical condition right?

Vitiligo is a thing, although I'm not sure if that was the case for him.

[Salandriagado]

Come back to me when there are clinical studies that say that transrace is a thing that is recognised, and then we'll talk. For now I'll just throw this transphobic shite in the garbage.

I thought that self-determined identification is at the very heart of the trans movement. A neurologist could possibly notice that the trans person's brain is more conforming with their gender identity, but even that is not conclusive as there's no evidence that gender-leaning brains are exclusively a trans thing.
A psychologist could diagnose gender dysphoria but I thought that medical "gatekeeping" is something that is looked down upon by the trans community.

In conclusion, how can you say that self-identification is ok for one group but not the other? Isn't that hypocrisy?

Oh, so we're pretending that psychology, as a discipline, simply doesn't exist now?

[Ifreann]

I think it means that you're saying that self-harm and suicidal ideation don't count, or something, unless they are caused by something you personally think is valid.

Which is just completely stupid.

It's ridiculous how desperate you have become in your defence of a clearly garbage human being.

So, what you're saying is that if I were to go and self harm, because of your words here, it's somehow your fault rather than mine for being an unstable nut?

Also, I'm not particularly desperate. It's ridiculous how the lot of you keep trying to read insight you clearly lack into my motivations or actions.

You're inventing mental instabilities and proposing conspiracies without evidence in an effort to defend Jeffrey Younger and deny his responsibility for how his children have been suffering under his care. I have no idea what is motivating you to do this, I'm suspicious that you're just getting a kick out of being contrary, but clearly you are desperate to be resorting to such tactics.

Why are you so desperate to veer into the realm of emotions and feelings rather than remaining impartial? Is it because the mother's entire argument relies upon emotional manipulation ?

TEL: "Why are you veering into the realm of emotions and feelings?"
TEL minutes earlier: "I am frankly offended at the implication that things that happened to me could constitute abuse"

[Juristonia]

Why are you so desperate to veer into the realm of emotions and feelings rather than remaining impartial?

The sheer hypocrisy of this one single sentence could replace nuclear as a valid power source.

Nothing you've posted in this entire thread has been anything but unsubstantiated, emotion-based thinking from your end. Not one single thing.
You completely disregard the opinion of the court, you completely disregard the opinion of the professionals, you completely disregard anything that might not agree with you as hearsay or impartial nonsense, whilst basing your own arguments on nothing but sky castles you yourself constructed, based on nothing.

It is genuinely mind boggling how you can sit there and accuse others of not remaining impartial.

[SD_Film Artists]

I don't profess to know the finer details, though I expect they'll find it rather phobic if they were denied recognition.

So if there's no medical or psychological basis for transracialism how are the two comparable beyond trying to assert that an absurd conclusion follows from transgender acceptance?

Are you implying that there must be medical gatekeeping to be transgender?
Isn't this what you call "truscum"?

As for your question, I'd say that they're both forms of identity politics.

[SD_Film Artists]

I thought that self-determined identification is at the very heart of the trans movement. A neurologist could possibly notice that the trans person's brain is more conforming with their gender identity, but even that is not conclusive as there's no evidence that gender-leaning brains are exclusively a trans thing.
A psychologist could diagnose gender dysphoria but I thought that medical "gatekeeping" is something that is looked down upon by the trans community.

In conclusion, how can you say that self-identification is ok for one group but not the other? Isn't that hypocrisy?

Oh, so we're pretending that psychology, as a discipline, simply doesn't exist now?

Where did I say that? Indeed I specifically said that psychology can diagnose gender disphoria.

[Vassenor]

So if there's no medical or psychological basis for transracialism how are the two comparable beyond trying to assert that an absurd conclusion follows from transgender acceptance?

Are you implying that there must be medical gatekeeping to be transgender?
Isn't this what you call "truscum"?

As for your question, I'd say that they're both forms of identity politics.

And what is "identity politics"?

[SD_Film Artists]

Are you implying that there must be medical gatekeeping to be transgender?
Isn't this what you call "truscum"?

As for your question, I'd say that they're both forms of identity politics.

And what is "identity politics"?

Are you implying that there must be medical gatekeeping to be transgender?
Isn't this what you call "truscum"?

Identity politics is a political approach and analysis based on people prioritizing the concerns most relevant to their particular racial, religious, ethnic, sexual, social, cultural or other identity