#protectjamesyounger

[Gravlen]

So aside from "tried to stop her ex-husband from being able to abuse their kids" what evidence of bias do you have?

First of all, I didn't say that. Also I think complete parental custody is a plausible motive. Also there's the fact that- as already mentioned- they are the prosecution; the whole point of them being the prosecution is to find a guilty verdict. If the prosecution was fair then they'd be no point of having a judge and jury.

Are you aware that this was a civil case, and not a criminal case? As such, no side was "the prosecution". There was a petitioner (the mother) on one side and a respondent (the father) on the other. The mother wanted to ammend the custody agreement, and the father made a counter-claim of complete parental custody, so that would be his motive and not hers.

[Gravlen]

...what?

The verdict has been handed down, what do you expect will happen now?

I mean they're basing things on what the Daily Mail says, so...

But even the DM says that the judge has ruled, hence my utter confusion.

[Mettaton-EX]

this thread is really just a perfect microcosm of modern political discourse, isn't it? some right-winger posts an article from a conspiracy website full of extremely obvious lies; it's completely debunked within the first few pages; right-wingers then continue to spend ages spouting the same extremely obvious lies, blithely ignoring all the evidence.

right-wingers are cultists that you can't have a good-faith discussion with. sorry if that offends.

[SD_Film Artists]

First of all, I didn't say that. Also I think complete parental custody is a plausible motive. Also there's the fact that- as already mentioned- they are the prosecution; the whole point of them being the prosecution is to find a guilty verdict. If the prosecution was fair then they'd be no point of having a judge and jury.

The point of the case she brought was to try and stop her ex-husband from being able to abuse their kids.

Yes, she had an allegation to put to the judge. That's how courts work.

[Ithania]

I mean they're basing things on what the Daily Mail says, so...

Yeah, I'm usually totally dismissive of anything that's in the DM, I'm just struggling to find any direct source and I'm hoping the DM isn't lying about the basic facts (e.g. gag order). Maybe that's a teeny bit naive but I hope even they wouldn't be that brazen.

Sadly, I'm struggling to find anything that isn't a blatantly biased write-up by a right-wing site or C&P of that on to other sites.

And I have no idea where to find recent judgments in the US. I'm spoiled by tools like WestLaw and bailii.

@Mettaton-EX: Yeah, isn't it amazing? I think I stopped "debating" over a decade ago, I feel it's such a useless dramatic egocentric performance.

Now, I sometimes, rarely share excessive overviews if I feel angry, in the teeny hope somebody might be scrolling through a trainwreck quietly with actual openness to ideas they can explore. If they're not read or useful then eh, worth a try.

[Pretty Much God]

Dr. Georgulas should have her medical license revoked, not to mention that she doesn't seem popular to her clients.

[Konolas]

Dr. Georgulas should have her medical license revoked, not to mention that she doesn't seem popular to her clients.

Welp looks like she just says that all the boys are just girls

There is a comment here saying that both parents are horrible which now I agree with

[Definitely God]

Dr. Georgulas should have her medical license revoked, not to mention that she doesn't seem popular to her clients.

The heretical father shall burn in Hell, while the good doctor shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

[Konolas]

Dr. Georgulas should have her medical license revoked, not to mention that she doesn't seem popular to her clients.

The heretical father shall burn in Hell, while the good doctor shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Dr. Georgulas should have her medical license revoked, not to mention that she doesn't seem popular to her clients.

Why do I hear boss music

[The Emerald Legion]

this thread is really just a perfect microcosm of modern political discourse, isn't it? some right-winger posts an article from a conspiracy website full of extremely obvious lies; it's completely debunked within the first few pages; right-wingers then continue to spend ages spouting the same extremely obvious lies, blithely ignoring all the evidence.

right-wingers are cultists that you can't have a good-faith discussion with. sorry if that offends.

Not really. Absolutely nothing has been debunked. What was done was you shifted the goal posts and took the child who had already been manipulated for four years word as to what was being forced. Then declared victory in an argument nobody was having.

Just because the mother is using soft power to do it, and might not even realize what she's doing, doesn't mean they didn't manipulate the kid.

The father is an asshole, but that's not an argument for the mothers behaviour.

Mind you, there isn't much that can be done now. The damage has already been done. But honestly, the fact that you don't see anything wrong with dragging a three year old to an LGBT clinic...

Children are impressionable. They learn what they're taught.

[True Refuge]

Dr. Georgulas should have her medical license revoked, not to mention that she doesn't seem popular to her clients.

And why is that exactly?

The first link has been reviewbombed by a significant number of people trying to make a political statement about the custody case, not her quality as a paediatrician. The Google Reviews, not so much thankfully.

Note that online polls and reviews are affected by selection bias. Only people who feel especially strongly about the doctor will care to leave a comment, and that emotion will affect the representativeness of both positive and negative reviews.

Overall, the plural of anecdote is not data.

[Satuga]

It isn't though. Hormone blockers don't do anything permanent. They just delay development.

If they do in fact just delay puberty and even after the normal age of when puberty starts it continues I have absolutely no problems with it then, I'm only concerned for the child's ability to make their choice of transitioning or not in the future, and whether the mother(and also father) is coercing the child to be what they want rather than what the child wants.

[Gravlen]

this thread is really just a perfect microcosm of modern political discourse, isn't it? some right-winger posts an article from a conspiracy website full of extremely obvious lies; it's completely debunked within the first few pages; right-wingers then continue to spend ages spouting the same extremely obvious lies, blithely ignoring all the evidence.

right-wingers are cultists that you can't have a good-faith discussion with. sorry if that offends.

Not really. Absolutely nothing has been debunked. What was done was you shifted the goal posts and took the child who had already been manipulated for four years word as to what was being forced. Then declared victory in an argument nobody was having.

Assertion unsupported by the facts.

Just because the mother is using soft power to do it, and might not even realize what she's doing, doesn't mean they didn't manipulate the kid.

Saying it doesn't make it true. Neither does saying it repeatedly.

The father is an asshole, but that's not an argument for the mothers behaviour.

Which was, let us remind ourselves, to follow the reccomandations of trained medical personel and mental health experts.

Mind you, there isn't much that can be done now. The damage has already been done.

Thanks to the abusive father, yes.

But honestly, the fact that you don't see anything wrong with dragging a three year old to an LGBT clinic...

Oh look, something which never happened either.

[Satuga]

this thread is really just a perfect microcosm of modern political discourse, isn't it? some right-winger posts an article from a conspiracy website full of extremely obvious lies; it's completely debunked within the first few pages; right-wingers then continue to spend ages spouting the same extremely obvious lies, blithely ignoring all the evidence.

right-wingers are cultists that you can't have a good-faith discussion with. sorry if that offends.

Yeah there are likely right wingers who won't change their mind no matter what, I try and be open and neutral when it comes to conversations especially political. Also I feel it's only fair to point out left winger's who are adamant that this child's transition is set in stone and this is how they will always be which is frankly untrue.

[Vassenor]

this thread is really just a perfect microcosm of modern political discourse, isn't it? some right-winger posts an article from a conspiracy website full of extremely obvious lies; it's completely debunked within the first few pages; right-wingers then continue to spend ages spouting the same extremely obvious lies, blithely ignoring all the evidence.

right-wingers are cultists that you can't have a good-faith discussion with. sorry if that offends.

Yeah there are likely right wingers who won't change their mind no matter what, I try and be open and neutral when it comes to conversations especially political. Also I feel it's only fair to point out left winger's who are adamant that this child's transition is set in stone and this is how they will always be which is frankly untrue.

So who has said that?

[True Refuge]

It isn't though. Hormone blockers don't do anything permanent. They just delay development.

If they do in fact just delay puberty and even after the normal age of when puberty starts it continues I have absolutely no problems with it then, I'm only concerned for the child's ability to make their choice of transitioning or not in the future, and whether the mother(and also father) is coercing the child to be what they want rather than what the child wants.

You will likely not find any progressives outside of online fringe groups that support manipulation of a child’s gender identity. In fact, the predominant opinion is that doing so to either a cis or trans child is in fact child abuse.

The issue in this case is that finding concrete information from corroborated sources without vested interests is difficult. Although there is some testimony that the mother manipulated the child, I don’t think it’s sufficient or reliable enough to make an absolute judgement.

I would particularly like to see this case go to appeal so that we can eventually get to read the applicable appeal court’s decision and their reasoning, which would provide a more comprehensive look at the evidence than you can get from mainstream or fringe media outlets that latch onto pro/anti-idpol positions to please their readers.

[True Refuge]

this thread is really just a perfect microcosm of modern political discourse, isn't it? some right-winger posts an article from a conspiracy website full of extremely obvious lies; it's completely debunked within the first few pages; right-wingers then continue to spend ages spouting the same extremely obvious lies, blithely ignoring all the evidence.

right-wingers are cultists that you can't have a good-faith discussion with. sorry if that offends.

Yeah there are likely right wingers who won't change their mind no matter what, I try and be open and neutral when it comes to conversations especially political. Also I feel it's only fair to point out left winger's who are adamant that this child's transition is set in stone and this is how they will always be which is frankly untrue.

It’s important to note there is more than one axis to the political spectrum.

Indeed, people that actually care about plotting people based on their political beliefs generally use the political compass or political cube, both of which have the economic and society axes and the latter including a cultural axis (progressivism vs traditionalism/regressivism) in addition.

Either that or they believe that political spectrums are arbitrary and dumb.

Although there may be some correlation between economically right-wing beliefs and anti-progressivism, it’s not enough to make blanket statements about all ‘right-wingers’.

[Satuga]

Yeah there are likely right wingers who won't change their mind no matter what, I try and be open and neutral when it comes to conversations especially political. Also I feel it's only fair to point out left winger's who are adamant that this child's transition is set in stone and this is how they will always be which is frankly untrue.

So who has said that?

I haven't much gone onto social media where most radicals on both sides are on, and luckily NS is a pretty moderate and non-toxic discussion site. The closest I could tell you in this site would likely be Page, specifically where they said "Why are you so worried about the mother influencing the child and not the father" Even though I had never said the father wasn't and had previously called the father an asshole lol. Of course that's not up to the degree of which I was talking which is actually good cause that means (at least in this discussion) there aren't really any radicals.

[SD_Film Artists]

this thread is really just a perfect microcosm of modern political discourse, isn't it? some right-winger posts an article from a conspiracy website full of extremely obvious lies; it's completely debunked within the first few pages; right-wingers then continue to spend ages spouting the same extremely obvious lies, blithely ignoring all the evidence.

right-wingers are cultists that you can't have a good-faith discussion with. sorry if that offends.

That may apply to the OP but not the whole thread; I'm not right-wing and my linked source if anything has a pro-trans leaning (it's standard BBC policy to use people's preferred pronouns, as well as the fact that their opinion pieces are often on LGBT issues and how to make life better for said group)

[Satuga]

If they do in fact just delay puberty and even after the normal age of when puberty starts it continues I have absolutely no problems with it then, I'm only concerned for the child's ability to make their choice of transitioning or not in the future, and whether the mother(and also father) is coercing the child to be what they want rather than what the child wants.

You will likely not find any progressives outside of online fringe groups that support manipulation of a child’s gender identity. In fact, the predominant opinion is that doing so to either a cis or trans child is in fact child abuse.

The issue in this case is that finding concrete information from corroborated sources without vested interests is difficult. Although there is some testimony that the mother manipulated the child, I don’t think it’s sufficient or reliable enough to make an absolute judgement.

I would particularly like to see this case go to appeal so that we can eventually get to read the applicable appeal court’s decision and their reasoning, which would provide a more comprehensive look at the evidence than you can get from mainstream or fringe media outlets that latch onto pro/anti-idpol positions to please their readers.

I agree, in fact I even made a comment about how every media site that has information on this is biased, and wishes to push their agenda, therefore all we can do right now is take the word of the biased and try to make sense of it.

[Satuga]

Yeah there are likely right wingers who won't change their mind no matter what, I try and be open and neutral when it comes to conversations especially political. Also I feel it's only fair to point out left winger's who are adamant that this child's transition is set in stone and this is how they will always be which is frankly untrue.

It’s important to note there is more than one axis to the political spectrum.

Indeed, people that actually care about plotting people based on their political beliefs generally use the political compass or political cube, which both has the economic and society axes and the latter including a cultural axis (progressivism vs traditionalism/regressivism).

Either that or they believe that political spectrums are arbitrary and dumb.

Although there may be some correlation between economically right-wing beliefs and anti-progressivism, it’s not enough to make blanket statements about all ‘right-wingers’.

Of course, I actually rather stumped a Republican when we were talking about climate change, when they attempted to make a joke to me about how popular opinion doesn't always matter (Ie 2016 election) and then I told them that I'm also a Republican. So yeah just because you may be a "democrat" or "republican" doesn't mean you have to agree with everything that your side says.

[True Refuge]

So who has said that?

I haven't much gone onto social media where most radicals on both sides are on, and luckily NS is a pretty moderate and non-toxic discussion site. The closest I could tell you in this site would likely be Page, specifically where they said "Why are you so worried about the mother influencing the child and not the father" Even though I had never said the father wasn't and had previously called the father an asshole lol. Of course that's not up to the degree of which I was talking which is actually good cause that means (at least in this discussion) there aren't really any radicals.

Could you quote Page’s post that you’re talking about?

Also, I’d like to note that Woke Twitter is an unwanted stain on progressive causes and is held in contempt by serious progressives.

[Satuga]

I haven't much gone onto social media where most radicals on both sides are on, and luckily NS is a pretty moderate and non-toxic discussion site. The closest I could tell you in this site would likely be Page, specifically where they said "Why are you so worried about the mother influencing the child and not the father" Even though I had never said the father wasn't and had previously called the father an asshole lol. Of course that's not up to the degree of which I was talking which is actually good cause that means (at least in this discussion) there aren't really any radicals.

Could you quote Page’s post you’re talking about?

Also, I’d like to note that Woke Twitter is an unwanted stain on progressive causes and is held in contempt by serious progressives.

Why are you worried that the kid is actually cisgender and will be harmed by her mother's influence, but not that she is transgender and will be harmed by her father's influence?

[Satuga]

Also, I’d like to note that Woke Twitter is an unwanted stain on progressive causes and is held in contempt by serious progressives.

Yeah most social media is, it get's pretty bad at some points.

[Gravlen]

I haven't much gone onto social media where most radicals on both sides are on, and luckily NS is a pretty moderate and non-toxic discussion site. The closest I could tell you in this site would likely be Page, specifically where they said "Why are you so worried about the mother influencing the child and not the father" Even though I had never said the father wasn't and had previously called the father an asshole lol. Of course that's not up to the degree of which I was talking which is actually good cause that means (at least in this discussion) there aren't really any radicals.

Could you quote Page’s post that you’re talking about?

Also, I’d like to note that Woke Twitter is an unwanted stain on progressive causes and is held in contempt by serious progressives.

Twitter is a stain on humanity, period.