NationStates

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:55 am**

Code: Select all: https://twitter.com/v_e_clinton/status/1082697858028056577?s=09

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:07 am**

Thepeopl wrote:
Code: Select all
https://twitter.com/v_e_clinton/status/1082697858028056577?s=09

Tsktsk. No credit to XKCD ? Shame on them.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:34 am**

Australian rePublic wrote:Anyways, what's your opinion on all this?

Your op effectively amounts to "People are doing things that go against the issue they're protesting about, therefore there is no issue." Utter bullshit.

Global warming exists. The fact that some people are buying seaside properties doesn't change that.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:32 am**

Juristonia wrote:
Drongonia wrote:Oh god, not you again. Time to leave this thread before I put a damn bullet in my head. (But no, it wasn't directed at everyone I disagree with, but details don't concern you much.)

Drongonia wrote:Of course I am. What an absolutely condescending remark to make. Mind you, whenever I see you in the forums you're always making ridiculous arguments and straight up being rude to people - no changes here.

That is not generally how well adjusted people react when they see someone they're not fond of.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:07 am**

I mean, if I had the wealth these rich folk have, I'd be buying seaside homes as well.

Besides, they've still got like 100 years on that issue. IIRC, aren't there other, more immediate problems from global warming/climate change to worry about besides sea level rise?

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:59 am**

Liriena wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
"Leftie alarmist crowd". Please don't tell me you're old enough to vote.

And this is why I'm a libertarian socialist except when it comes to climate change.

You're not libertarian stop calling yourself that.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:05 am**

Kowani wrote:
Antityranicals wrote:Exactly as I've said, guesswork based on a few short-term trends. The fact that you can demonstrate correlation with a number of scientific looking graphs doesn't mean causation, nor does it mean science. Science is more than observation. Without a control Earth, you've got nothing.
I mean…we know much of what the world used to look like before industrialization. You heard of the little ice age? But regardless, we do know causation-for decades, actually. But here. And no, that’s not how science works. Controls are for experiments, not necessarily observation. Both are extremely important.
I'll also go ahead and note that you completely overlook the fact that Carbon Dioxide decreases in effectiveness as a greenhouse gas as concentration increases in an exponential ratio. After a point, adding more CO2 will actually cause the atmosphere to trap less heat. The extreme of this is demonstrated on Mars, which has tons of CO2, but very little greenhouse effect.
Mars has little heat because Greenhouse Gases (like CO2, but it’s not the only one) trap heat from the sun. Guess what isn’t hitting Mars? Oh, that’s right. Heat from the sun.

The atmosphere on Mars is also extremely thin, so it has problems trapping heat. Venus is a better demonstration on the power of greenhouse gasses, as it is further from the sun than Mercury, but it is hotter.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:07 am**

Gotta say, I'm very tickled by this idea that we can't study the Earth because we don't have a control Earth.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:18 am**

Why do climate change denialists always obsess over Al Gore and Barack Obama when they aren't even the actual experts on climate change?

When you can get the scientists on hypocrisy, then we'll talk.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:20 am**

Ifreann wrote:Gotta say, I'm very tickled by this idea that we can't study the Earth because we don't have a control Earth.

So, we can't study earth science (so, no geography, geology, geophysics, seismology, soil science, hydrology, ecology, or glaciology) because we don't have a control Earth? I suppose astrophysics and astronomy would be out, too (no control skies).

Damn the Big Bang for not planning ahead.

And the conclusions in the OP are really rather spurious. Wealthy people buying properties that will lose their value do not disprove climate change, nor suggest it's not worth worrying about. As others have said, if I had a load of money, I'd like a nice seaview (and the property's loss of value wouldn't worry me). I still acknowledge climate change.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:24 am**

The people in the OP are like old AF, they are going to die before sea level rises significantly. And even if they survive until then, their wealth lets them buy another property.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:00 am**

1) You're assuming these people are betting against society, that they're assuming the seas will rise indefinitely and all of their work to fight global warming is ultimately pointless.

2) The sea levels are rising at about 1/8th of an inch per year. These people have plenty of time to sell their properties or die before it becomes a concern.

3) Boo fucking hoo small business owners. I don't care if your business fails, most businesses fail, if you don't have the money to pay taxes then the issue is your business is not viable and I'll play you a sad song on the worlds smallest violin.

4) Since you have access to a computer I assume you're aware you don't have to personally invent a technology to make use of it. As people are more willing to pay for green innovations more will be devised and more will become available.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:12 am**

Australian rePublic wrote:-snip-

Climate Crusader and Australian member of parliament, Zali Steggle, lives in one of Sydney's wealthiest suburbs, on the coast, with no solar panels:
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andr ... 18200fe886

If you're so worried about climate change, Senator Steggal, why in the fudge don't you live in a poorer suburb that won't get away when the sea levels rise. The money you make from the sale of your house and purchase of a new house in a cheaper inland area could be used to purchase solar panels, and you'll still have a few hundred thousand (if not million) dollars left over. Further, she drives and SUV? Why, just why? Why can't you ride a bike, Senator Steggal? I mean isn't that what you climate crusaders demand from us plebs, who live tens of kilometres from the CBD to do? If you want us to ride a bike from tens of kilometres to our jobs (many of which are in the CBD, tens of kilometres away) why don't you lead by example? You live very close to the CBD. (For my American readers, CBD= Downtown in Australian terminology). Further, your seat of Warringa has direct bus services to the CBD. When I attended university in the -snip-

It could be the senator has a heath well/ aquifer pump, or the static electricity converter on her property.

Also her SUV could be electric. Or even hydrogen powered.

And you could just call them out on their behaviour.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:14 am**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Liriena wrote:And this is why I'm a libertarian socialist except when it comes to climate change.

You're not libertarian stop calling yourself that.

Do you ever bother to know anything about anything you talk about?
A libertarian socialist is an anarchist aka an old school libertarian. The American right libertarianism that you are probably into has got nothing to do with libertarianism as seen in the rest of the world.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:39 am**

I am in awe of the irony of the word "alarmist" being thrown around in reference to people concerned about climate change as if there isn't a cause for alarm. Just because the consequences of climate change are a slow burn doesn't mean they aren't severe.

If you pick any random day in the span of 1939 - 1945 when World War Two was happening and analyze that single day in a vacuum, you could make the argument that the events that transpired on that single day are no big deal. "So like 5000 people died, that sucks but it's not the end of the world." But it's not a day by day matter, the whole six years of the war together are a big fucking deal, just as all the events of the next century caused by climate change will be, just not any individual particular event.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:09 am**

It is advertising for investments in seawalls and dikes similar to Holland's seawalls and Dikes. Billions of dollars are going to be spent on a wall around Manhattan in the coming years. First you build the property then you dredge in front of it and build a seawall. You get your very own seawalled mansion. If the seawalls become unfeasible, you put the property on pontoons and claim your own sovereignty and refuse to pay taxes.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:19 am**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Liriena wrote:And this is why I'm a libertarian socialist except when it comes to climate change.

You're not libertarian stop calling yourself that.

Thank you for your very relevant, very intelligent and very useful contribution.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:35 am**

This reads like it was out of a Turning point USA Facebook post.

First of all, you can buy sea side property and still be afraid of the factually proven affects of climate change.

Second, side stepping the message being said by Jon Oliver and Bill Nye is shooting the messenger beacuse you don't like them rather then look at the facts that the message comes from.

But to be fair Jon Oliver is doing his own echo chamber stick. So that is still as bad as any echo chamber on the right. Speaking of:

Antityranicals wrote:Let's be honest: Anyone who says that "science proves human-caused global warming" is either a liar, or doesn't know what science is. Science follows the scientific method. It's impossible for a scientific study to be made on the cause of global warming precisely because there is no control variable. We don't have an otherwise exactly identical "Earth without humans" to study. If we did, we could scientifically determine whether or not humans have an effect on climate. But as it is, we literally have no idea why the earth is warming, nor do we know for sure that it is warming beyond a few general short-term trends. (A hundred or so years is crazy short-term in Earth terms) All we have is guesswork, and a large group of special interests who want to use "humans are killing the planet" as an excuse to take control of the economy, and enslave us all to their collective. And even if the guesswork is right, there's no reason to believe that the effects of a few degrees of warming would actually cause any substantial damage, as to be worth the global economic recession that these plans would bring about.

Opinion formed from an echo chamber on the right that is also anti science.

The opinion also happens to ignore the very long list of scientific organizations that agree on the affects of climate change.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:48 am**

Totenborg wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
You're not libertarian stop calling yourself that.

Do you ever bother to know anything about anything you talk about?
A libertarian socialist is an anarchist aka an old school libertarian. The American right libertarianism that you are probably into has got nothing to do with libertarianism as seen in the rest of the world.

Read TG.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:43 am**

Des-Bal wrote:1) You're assuming these people are betting against society, that they're assuming the seas will rise indefinitely and all of their work to fight global warming is ultimately pointless.

2) The sea levels are rising at about 1/8th of an inch per year. These people have plenty of time to sell their properties or die before it becomes a concern.

3) Boo fucking hoo small business owners. I don't care if your business fails, most businesses fail, if you don't have the money to pay taxes then the issue is your business is not viable and I'll play you a sad song on the worlds smallest violin.

4) Since you have access to a computer I assume you're aware you don't have to personally invent a technology to make use of it. As people are more willing to pay for green innovations more will be devised and more will become available.

3) This factor does matter, otherwise business owners, their employees and families will not support the tax. So yeah, you kinda do have to give a shit.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:13 am**

Des-Bal wrote:1) You're assuming these people are betting against society, that they're assuming the seas will rise indefinitely and all of their work to fight global warming is ultimately pointless.

2) The sea levels are rising at about 1/8th of an inch per year. These people have plenty of time to sell their properties or die before it becomes a concern.

3) Boo fucking hoo small business owners. I don't care if your business fails, most businesses fail, if you don't have the money to pay taxes then the issue is your business is not viable and I'll play you a sad song on the worlds smallest violin.

4) Since you have access to a computer I assume you're aware you don't have to personally invent a technology to make use of it. As people are more willing to pay for green innovations more will be devised and more will become available.

Yeah small business do matter actualy.

However they arent being targeted or affected much but these taxes.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:18 am**

"Mr. Climate Change Activist buys seaside property so everything he does is invalid"

Umm, wut

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:26 am**

They're rich, that's why.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:35 am**

Idea. Buy climate change apologists seaside property so they have a dog in the fight.

Posted: **Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:42 am**

Ifreann wrote:Gotta say, I'm very tickled by this idea that we can't study the Earth because we don't have a control Earth.

The really amusing part is that technically we DO have a control Earth...

It’s called Venus. AKA Earth with LOTS of CO2...

NationStates

If these people are so concerned about global warming