UK Politics Thread XI: Boris' Big Bombastic Brexit Bash

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

centrist labour people in the north: we don't want mass immigration

momentum: nazbols

your post basically highlights why labour lost the north totally tbh

So what are "culturally conservative positions" and what makes them a good thing?

I don't know, ask Blue Labour, I'm not part of it. I assume that simply means Conservative Party attitudes to migration / society and Labour attitudes to the economy.

[Celritannia]

1. Where does it say Greater Manchester is devolved? Because I posted a quote that states it is not.

The Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) is the devolved combined authority body of Greater Manchester, England.

2. No, thy have a right for a devolved Parliament, as they wanted in the 90s.

it's not a right, it's a privilege. scotland has no more "right" to a devolved Parliament than the city of Norwich.

3. Yes, it does, however, the people of Cornwall are not hugely in favour of a devolved assembly.

Is there evidence for this?

Wales did.

The Welsh Assembly was created on the back of a 1997 referendum which produced a 50.3% Yes vote and a 49.7% No vote. The first time, in 1979, it was rejected by 80% to 20%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Wels ... referendum

Not sure I would call that "hugely in favour"

1. No, not it does not. See here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_M ... _Authority

Read the first part:

The Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) is the devolved combined authority body of Greater Manchester, England. It was established on 1 April 2011 and consists of eleven indirectly elected members, each a directly elected councillor from one of the ten metropolitan boroughs that comprise Greater Manchester together with the Mayor of Greater Manchester.

A devolved government would not have indirectly elected members for one thing.
And the GMA has less authority than the GLA.
GMA is a council co-operation area.
GLA has authority over London county councils. That's one major difference between a devolved government, and non-devolved government.

2. City of Norwich is not a country with it's own culture, is it? Scotland is. And Norwich does not want a devolved government, does it?

3. Yes, but now the people of Wales like their assembly. Because the UK parliament hardly pays attention to Wales and Scotland. Which is why they need a devolved government.
IT also deals with a lot more issues than any English Region. London also deals with almost exactly the same issues as Wales does in its official devolved status.

But it's okay, you're a Tory who doesn't like the democratic principles.

[Cerinda]

If Labour wants to win, it probably is. It's fine if it doesn't - that's good for the rest of us - but then it's just a protest movement not a party.

Oh yes because pushing neo-liberal policies and hating LGBT people is really going to work.

No, a tory voter.

Well then, okay.

well, the most left that labour has been since 1945, anyway.

That government still wasn't really left-wing, sure it had some great domestic policies but foreign policy wise it was no better than the tories.

[Vassenor]

So what are "culturally conservative positions" and what makes them a good thing?

I don't know, ask Blue Labour, I'm not part of it. I assume that simply means Conservative Party attitudes to migration / society and Labour attitudes to the economy.

So you're praising an idea without understanding it. That's not really a smart idea.

[Celritannia]

If Labour wants to win, it probably is. It's fine if it doesn't - that's good for the rest of us - but then it's just a protest movement not a party.

Oh yes because pushing neo-liberal policies and hating LGBT people is really going to work.

No, a tory voter.

Well then, okay.

well, the most left that labour has been since 1945, anyway.

That government still wasn't really left-wing, sure it had some great domestic policies but foreign policy wise it was no better than the tories.

YEah, the labour Government under Attlee was Centre-Left, which is what it really needs to be.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

If Labour wants to win, it probably is. It's fine if it doesn't - that's good for the rest of us - but then it's just a protest movement not a party.

Oh yes because pushing neo-liberal policies and hating LGBT people is really going to work.

Maybe. You'll never know.

well, the most left that labour has been since 1945, anyway.

That government still wasn't really left-wing, sure it had some great domestic policies but foreign policy wise it was no better than the tories.

It was quite clearly economically left-wing, much more so than all successive governments until modern day.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

I don't know, ask Blue Labour, I'm not part of it. I assume that simply means Conservative Party attitudes to migration / society and Labour attitudes to the economy.

So you're praising an idea without understanding it. That's not really a smart idea.

I'm not sure you know what "praise" means?

I simply said his - and your - attitudes are why Labour is losing. And it's true. "Blue Labour" is far more likely to win this country than whatever Momentum can come up with.

[Vassenor]

BBC staff express fear of public distrust after election coverage

Maybe you should've thought of that before you let LauraK go all in with the bootlicking.

[SD_Film Artists]

City of Norwich is not a country with it's own culture, is it? Scotland is. And Norwich does not want a devolved government, does it?

We do have our own culture and we have just as much right to independence (or lack of it) as Scotland does. As for wanting independence/devolution you're right there's no apitite for that at all; indeed we're apparently very loyal to BoJo since every single Norfolk and Suffolk constituency apart from Norwich South has gone Tory.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

2. City of Norwich is not a country with it's own culture, is it? Scotland is.

it is.

so is cornwall.

and scousers.

and wherever morris dancing is

And Norwich does not want a devolved government, does it?

if scotland wants a devolved government, it should leave. simple. that's the choice that boris should now give them. one final referendum.

But it's okay, you're a Tory who doesn't like the democratic principles.

Why don't we have another vote? The people didn't know what they were voting for the first time round.

)))))))

[Cerinda]

YEah, the labour Government under Attlee was Centre-Left, which is what it really needs to be.

Sure, I'm okay with that, I just really hate when people say that Labour under Corbyn was "far-left".

Oh yes because pushing neo-liberal policies and hating LGBT people is really going to work.

Maybe. You'll never know.

I don't think Labour, a party that has championed itself on civil rights and standing up for the most oppressed is going to win by embracing bigotry and hating a large percentage of its voters. As someone who is Bi, I would rather not have a government that will try to persecute me, hell I'm already fearing that with Johnson.

[SD_Film Artists]

So what are "culturally conservative positions" and what makes them a good thing?

I don't know, ask Blue Labour, I'm not part of it. I assume that simply means Conservative Party attitudes to migration / society and Labour attitudes to the economy.

If it was strong on defence and national pride then it could work, as the left has forgotten that patriotism and left-wing economics are not mutually exclusive.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

YEah, the labour Government under Attlee was Centre-Left, which is what it really needs to be.

Sure, I'm okay with that, I just really hate when people say that Labour under Corbyn was "far-left".

Relative to UK modern politics, it very much is far left.

Maybe. You'll never know.

I don't think Labour, a party that has championed itself on civil rights and standing up for the most oppressed is going to win by embracing bigotry and hating a large percentage of its voters. As someone who is Bi, I would rather not have a government that will try to persecute me, hell I'm already fearing that with Johnson.

[/quote]

Has it?

Keir Hardie (speaking of Lithuanians)
"their habits are very filthy, six or seven males occupying a one-roomed house, and having women to cook for them”

As early as 1887 the Ayrshire Miners Union led by Keir Hardie demanded their removal on the grounds that “their presence is a menace to the health and morality of the place and is, besides, being used to reduce the already too low wages earned by the workmen”.

I can't be bothered to find more examples, to be honest. It's just social change. Contraceptives were made legal in 1961 under Conservative government of Macmillan. Gay marriage under Conservatives. Abortion and gay relationships were decriminalised under Labour. All a coincidence of who was in government at said time.

Besides, I wasn't serious about "hating LGBT people"

Rather, not acting in a face-down ass-up to all LGBT ideas, if you want to take the topic to LGBT. That includes basically anything Tories believe, like no penises in women's toilets. Or at least, not openly embracing it or standing behind it.

[Fartsniffage]

Angela Rayner should be the next leader of the Labour party.

Fuck no.

[The Nihilistic view]

A sitting Prime minister has gone to the North!

[LiberNovusAmericae]

You need a more refined social circle, I think. You're like one of those rich people who eat at McDonalds or Five Guys. A palate needs to be refined over time just like a social calendar.

Now I get it, your posts earlier make loads of sense now.

Especially with his "fuck you, I've got mine" form of "liberty."

[Pannerstone]

welp, here come the " all these racist white people woke up and voted against labor."

even though this is the second time and it was OVERWHELMING

" No no, our ideas are not garbage....it's the PEOPLE that are garbage...those evil white men...."

[Salandriagado]

Which is basically the brexit argument all over again - we need mass immigration if we want to maintain current standards of living but it's not popular, and it seems people would rather see standards of living decline to stop mass immigration.

Banning birth control and having more children could work.

Apart from anything else, there's an inconvenient amount of delay involved in that strategy.

[Nakena]

I don't know, ask Blue Labour, I'm not part of it. I assume that simply means Conservative Party attitudes to migration / society and Labour attitudes to the economy.

If it was strong on defence and national pride then it could work, as the left has forgotten that patriotism and left-wing economics are not mutually exclusive.

I also like Ed Miliband’s Blue Labour style distinction between “predatory” and “productive” capitalism in his 2011 conference speech. :^)

[Kavagrad]

City of Norwich is not a country with it's own culture, is it? Scotland is. And Norwich does not want a devolved government, does it?

We do have our own culture and we have just as much right to independence (or lack of it) as Scotland does. As for wanting independence/devolution you're right there's no apitite for that at all; indeed we're apparently very loyal to BoJo since every single Norfolk and Suffolk constituency apart from Norwich South has gone Tory.

Clive's just a good lad.

Also a uni constituency but y'know, I like to think that it's Clive.

[Surkiea II]

Excellent news, socialism has been defeated, hopefully Boris will get Brexit done and embrace true social conservatism and traditionalism.

[Vassenor]

welp, here come the " all these racist white people woke up and voted against labor."

even though this is the second time and it was OVERWHELMING

" No no, our ideas are not garbage....it's the PEOPLE that are garbage...those evil white men...."

I'll take "things no-one has said" for $1000, Alex.

Oh hey, it's the Daily Double.

[Vassenor]

Excellent news, socialism has been defeated, hopefully Boris will get Brexit done and embrace true social conservatism and traditionalism.

How about no.

[Northern Davincia]

Excellent news, socialism has been defeated, hopefully Boris will get Brexit done and embrace true social conservatism and traditionalism.

Boris is not the most stringent of conservatives, but he's the hero Britain needs, not the one it deserves.

[Vassenor]

Excellent news, socialism has been defeated, hopefully Boris will get Brexit done and embrace true social conservatism and traditionalism.

Boris is not the most stringent of conservatives, but he's the hero Britain needs, not the one it deserves.

So heroic he's likely to be directly responsible for the collapse of the Union.