UK Politics Thread XI: Boris' Big Bombastic Brexit Bash

[Gormwood]

Come and live on my road for a week. You won't still think that, I promise.

If I may ask, why?

How will Brexit fix the problems on your road?

Less immigrants?

[Souseiseki]

jean claude-junker personally got drunk on my road and started spewing crap at us in some incomprehensible language. due to EU freedom of movement rules we were unable to properly deport him.

[Loftegen 3]

Boris Johnson, obviously.

[Alvecia]

If I may ask, why?

How will Brexit fix the problems on your road?

Less immigrants?

Will there be tho? Last I heard, there's likely nothing going to change about immigration policy.

Mind you, it's been a while. More than long enough for that to change.

[The Blaatschapen]

If I may ask, why?

How will Brexit fix the problems on your road?

Less immigrants?

Do you mean fewer immigrants?

[Kavagrad]

Less immigrants?

Do you mean fewer immigrants?

Bloody foreigners, telling us how to speak our own language

[Dumb Ideologies]

Less immigrants?

Do you mean fewer immigrants?

Oh you wonderful woollen boy.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It will be interesting to see how easy a ride the Brexit Bill gets in the House of Lords. The Consevative peers haven't been purged of remainers like the MPs have. I think we can expect lots of attempts to amend it in ways the government will not like.

Good. The entirely meaningless act of national suicide and prostration before a slaver state needs to be made as difficult and painful as possible.

[Philjia]

Meanwhile in the Ulsterverse, The British and Irish governments have published the text of a draft deal aimed at restoring power sharing in Northern Ireland.

The new proposed deal includes plans for an Irish language commissioner and an Ulster Scots commissioner, a new Climate Change Act for NI, a new version of the Environment Agency for NI, investment in nurse training, 7500 more police, new "transparency measures" for ministers, new rules for SpAds, and the creation of an Office of Identity and Cultural Expression, which I'm sure will definitely end up nothing like the Parades Commission.

[The Nihilistic view]

It will be interesting to see how easy a ride the Brexit Bill gets in the House of Lords. The Consevative peers haven't been purged of remainers like the MPs have. I think we can expect lots of attempts to amend it in ways the government will not like.

I don't think they will bother since anything done will just get rejected in double quick time back in the commons.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

It will be interesting to see how easy a ride the Brexit Bill gets in the House of Lords. The Consevative peers haven't been purged of remainers like the MPs have. I think we can expect lots of attempts to amend it in ways the government will not like.

I don't think they will bother since anything done will just get rejected in double quick time back in the commons.

If they focus on the details of the Northern Ireland border that Johnson flubbed, they might get some traction.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Less immigrants?

Do you mean fewer immigrants?

Meanwhile in the Ulsterverse, The British and Irish governments have published the text of a draft deal aimed at restoring power sharing in Northern Ireland.

The new proposed deal includes plans for an Irish language commissioner and an Ulster Scots commissioner, a new Climate Change Act for NI, a new version of the Environment Agency for NI, investment in nurse training, 7500 more police, new "transparency measures" for ministers, new rules for SpAds, and the creation of an Office of Identity and Cultural Expression, which I'm sure will definitely end up nothing like the Parades Commission.

All good stuff from the sounds of it, whether that actually translate into something tho is another matter.

[Ifreann]

Do you mean fewer immigrants?

Meanwhile in the Ulsterverse, The British and Irish governments have published the text of a draft deal aimed at restoring power sharing in Northern Ireland.

The new proposed deal includes plans for an Irish language commissioner and an Ulster Scots commissioner, a new Climate Change Act for NI, a new version of the Environment Agency for NI, investment in nurse training, 7500 more police, new "transparency measures" for ministers, new rules for SpAds, and the creation of an Office of Identity and Cultural Expression, which I'm sure will definitely end up nothing like the Parades Commission.

All good stuff from the sounds of it, whether that actually translate into something tho is another matter.

But Huskar, if people are speaking Irish then for all anyone knows they could be conspiring against the Queen! Allowing this will destroy Britain!

[The Huskar Social Union]

All good stuff from the sounds of it, whether that actually translate into something tho is another matter.

But Huskar, if people are speaking Irish then for all anyone knows they could be conspiring against the Queen! Allowing this will destroy Britain!

Is that meant to change my mind?

[The Blaatschapen]

All good stuff from the sounds of it, whether that actually translate into something tho is another matter.

But Huskar, if people are speaking Irish then for all anyone knows they could be conspiring against the Queen! Allowing this will destroy Britain!

And here I thought that being catholic was the prerequisite of conspiring against the Monarch

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

I waited a month to see if something would happen before I posted this, but apparently not.

Does anyone here doubt that Boris Johnson is the most politically powerful Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher or Harold Wilson, if not much earlier with Clement Attlee?

I judge it on three bases; firstly, Boris Johnson has a majority unprecedented by his three most recent Conservative incumbents, and one Labour leader (who despite a very large majority was just a lame duck.) In post-1979 politics, only Thatcher and Blair reached those figures. These are figures which are insurmountable by any opposition combined with any potential rebels. It is historically large by any measure, going back to the start of the last century.

Secondly, Boris Johnson has almost no rebels. There's no distinct big wig figures who are ready to challenge him like the threat Thatcher had for eleven years, nor are there any small-time rebels like Corbyn was to almost anything Blair tabled for 10 years. Not a single Conservative Party MP rebelled to any single-line whip so far. Boris' Brexit policy of leaving at the end of January was passed without a single absent/rebellious Nay vote. All Rebels have either moronically left on their own like Soubry, or have been effectively forced out by their local association like Dominic Grieve.

This leaves the Conservative Party in possibly its most 'united' state since the War. Because let's not forget that there were plenty of anti-price controls rebels 1950-1964, and plenty of one nation / social marketers rebels during Thatcher. So far, early in this conservative government, all Tory MPs are united under the Boris vision. There's no disagreement about what the future of the party or the country should be, something not seen in the party since the war at least. Any previous rebels which have managed to stay in the party have been quashed under Boris' boot. Whether this stays true to the future is anyone's guess, but so far there's no evidence to the contrary. Even the ERG rebels are careful about pushing for a no deal Brexit at the end of the transition period, because they have been rendered weak by the supermajority.

I predict that this Tory unity will only break if the current government fails to improve the economic situation in the north, with the 'unity' breaking down geographical lines rather than ideological ones. At a more frivolous guess, perhaps even a split like the National Liberals being the Tory contingent in the north like in the 50s.

Thirdly, Boris Johnson has no contenders. This genuinely is not something that has been seen since shortly after the war, lest you want to consider Harold Wilson relative powerful in this regard. Theresa May was flooded with leadership contenders, and David Cameron wielded a thin line of control. Tony Blair had plenty of cabinet contenders, as did John Major. Thatcher was often overshadowed by them, especially in the latter part of her premiership. Callaghan, Heath, Eden, Macmillan (Night of Long Knives,) Churchill and Attlee all had a similar situation to Cameron or worse. Harold Wilson is a bit debatable, he was a bit of a strongman but he had his public disagreements with cabinet members like George Brown and Patrick Walker.

Boris has none of these. There's no one in the cabinet big enough to challenge him, there's no one in the cabinet who wields more support than him in the parliamentary or membership party, there's no one in the cabinet who disagrees with him in the media or social media. The case with backbenchers is the same. He is the definition of a strongman at the moment, even if he doesn't make it ostentatious.

Ergo/tl;dr, Boris is by far the most "powerful" Prime Minister the UK has had since the war, both in the country and in his party.

Anyone disagrees; and if yes, why?

[Ifreann]

But Huskar, if people are speaking Irish then for all anyone knows they could be conspiring against the Queen! Allowing this will destroy Britain!

And here I thought that being catholic was the prerequisite of conspiring against the Monarch

Being Catholic, being foreign, speaking foreign, marrying a foreigner. Her Majesty has many enemies.

[Senegalboy]

I waited a month to see if something would happen before I posted this, but apparently not.

Does anyone here doubt that Boris Johnson is the most politically powerful Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher or Harold Wilson, if not much earlier with Clement Attlee?

I judge it on three bases; firstly, Boris Johnson has a majority unprecedented by his three most recent Conservative incumbents, and one Labour leader (who despite a very large majority was just a lame duck.) In post-1979 politics, only Thatcher and Blair reached those figures. These are figures which are insurmountable by any opposition combined with any potential rebels. It is historically large by any measure, going back to the start of the last century.

Secondly, Boris Johnson has almost no rebels. There's no distinct big wig figures who are ready to challenge him like the threat Thatcher had for eleven years, nor are there any small-time rebels like Corbyn was to almost anything Blair tabled for 10 years. Not a single Conservative Party MP rebelled to any single-line whip so far. Boris' Brexit policy of leaving at the end of January was passed without a single absent/rebellious Nay vote. All Rebels have either moronically left on their own like Soubry, or have been effectively forced out by their local association like Dominic Grieve.

This leaves the Conservative Party in possibly its most 'united' state since the War. Because let's not forget that there were plenty of anti-price controls rebels 1950-1964, and plenty of one nation / social marketers rebels during Thatcher. So far, early in this conservative government, all Tory MPs are united under the Boris vision. There's no disagreement about what the future of the party or the country should be, something not seen in the party since the war at least. Any previous rebels which have managed to stay in the party have been quashed under Boris' boot. Whether this stays true to the future is anyone's guess, but so far there's no evidence to the contrary. Even the ERG rebels are careful about pushing for a no deal Brexit at the end of the transition period, because they have been rendered weak by the supermajority.

I predict that this Tory unity will only break if the current government fails to improve the economic situation in the north, with the 'unity' breaking down geographical lines rather than ideological ones. At a more frivolous guess, perhaps even a split like the National Liberals being the Tory contingent in the north like in the 50s.

Thirdly, Boris Johnson has no contenders. This genuinely is not something that has been seen since shortly after the war, lest you want to consider Harold Wilson relative powerful in this regard. Theresa May was flooded with leadership contenders, and David Cameron wielded a thin line of control. Tony Blair had plenty of cabinet contenders, as did John Major. Thatcher was often overshadowed by them, especially in the latter part of her premiership. Callaghan, Heath, Eden, Macmillan (Night of Long Knives,) Churchill and Attlee all had a similar situation to Cameron or worse. Harold Wilson is a bit debatable, he was a bit of a strongman but he had his public disagreements with cabinet members like George Brown and Patrick Walker.

Boris has none of these. There's no one in the cabinet big enough to challenge him, there's no one in the cabinet who wields more support than him in the parliamentary or membership party, there's no one in the cabinet who disagrees with him in the media or social media. The case with backbenchers is the same. He is the definition of a strongman at the moment, even if he doesn't make it ostentatious.

Ergo/tl;dr, Boris is by far the most "powerful" Prime Minister the UK has had since the war, both in the country and in his party.

Anyone disagrees; and if yes, why?

100% agree with what you said.
Boris Johnson may even be the most powerful prime minister in living memory because he has got rid of the "wets" in his parliamentary party, the main opposition party is at it's weakest level since 1935 and I don't think they're learning their mistakes and finally Johnson has a cult like following amongst the membership.

On the issue of unity, I do believe that the new coalition of conservatives will hold as red wall and the liberal urban labour voters are completely different and have a different vision of their ideal Britain so i don't know how Labour will break the voting coalition.

[The Blaatschapen]

And here I thought that being catholic was the prerequisite of conspiring against the Monarch

Being Catholic, being foreign, speaking foreign, marrying a foreigner. Her Majesty has many enemies.

I am two out of four, with a background in a third. And a likelihood (if I get married) to do the fourth.

[The Nihilistic view]

I waited a month to see if something would happen before I posted this, but apparently not.

Does anyone here doubt that Boris Johnson is the most politically powerful Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher or Harold Wilson, if not much earlier with Clement Attlee?

I judge it on three bases; firstly, Boris Johnson has a majority unprecedented by his three most recent Conservative incumbents, and one Labour leader (who despite a very large majority was just a lame duck.) In post-1979 politics, only Thatcher and Blair reached those figures. These are figures which are insurmountable by any opposition combined with any potential rebels. It is historically large by any measure, going back to the start of the last century.

Secondly, Boris Johnson has almost no rebels. There's no distinct big wig figures who are ready to challenge him like the threat Thatcher had for eleven years, nor are there any small-time rebels like Corbyn was to almost anything Blair tabled for 10 years. Not a single Conservative Party MP rebelled to any single-line whip so far. Boris' Brexit policy of leaving at the end of January was passed without a single absent/rebellious Nay vote. All Rebels have either moronically left on their own like Soubry, or have been effectively forced out by their local association like Dominic Grieve.

This leaves the Conservative Party in possibly its most 'united' state since the War. Because let's not forget that there were plenty of anti-price controls rebels 1950-1964, and plenty of one nation / social marketers rebels during Thatcher. So far, early in this conservative government, all Tory MPs are united under the Boris vision. There's no disagreement about what the future of the party or the country should be, something not seen in the party since the war at least. Any previous rebels which have managed to stay in the party have been quashed under Boris' boot. Whether this stays true to the future is anyone's guess, but so far there's no evidence to the contrary. Even the ERG rebels are careful about pushing for a no deal Brexit at the end of the transition period, because they have been rendered weak by the supermajority.

I predict that this Tory unity will only break if the current government fails to improve the economic situation in the north, with the 'unity' breaking down geographical lines rather than ideological ones. At a more frivolous guess, perhaps even a split like the National Liberals being the Tory contingent in the north like in the 50s.

Thirdly, Boris Johnson has no contenders. This genuinely is not something that has been seen since shortly after the war, lest you want to consider Harold Wilson relative powerful in this regard. Theresa May was flooded with leadership contenders, and David Cameron wielded a thin line of control. Tony Blair had plenty of cabinet contenders, as did John Major. Thatcher was often overshadowed by them, especially in the latter part of her premiership. Callaghan, Heath, Eden, Macmillan (Night of Long Knives,) Churchill and Attlee all had a similar situation to Cameron or worse. Harold Wilson is a bit debatable, he was a bit of a strongman but he had his public disagreements with cabinet members like George Brown and Patrick Walker.

Boris has none of these. There's no one in the cabinet big enough to challenge him, there's no one in the cabinet who wields more support than him in the parliamentary or membership party, there's no one in the cabinet who disagrees with him in the media or social media. The case with backbenchers is the same. He is the definition of a strongman at the moment, even if he doesn't make it ostentatious.

Ergo/tl;dr, Boris is by far the most "powerful" Prime Minister the UK has had since the war, both in the country and in his party.

Anyone disagrees; and if yes, why?

I'll report back later because I have some belated Christmas drinks tonight which were delayed to fight the election. I'd have to say I mostly agree at this early stage. I think mid term Thatcher still has it but I think now the view from inside what most conservatives realise is we have a fantastic oppertunity to shape the country in the post brexit world and that we need to make sure that we are together to do that. I think the way it's gone is a fantastic oppertunity for us.

Getting rid of the wets as you called them either of their own accord or because of the votes last autumn is a big reason for this. Even Gove introduced Boris for his victory speech 2 years after plunging in the knife. You almost wonder if they did it on purpose so they could come back post maybot and clean up or is that too Machiavellian?

[Vassenor]

I waited a month to see if something would happen before I posted this, but apparently not.

Does anyone here doubt that Boris Johnson is the most politically powerful Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher or Harold Wilson, if not much earlier with Clement Attlee?

I judge it on three bases; firstly, Boris Johnson has a majority unprecedented by his three most recent Conservative incumbents, and one Labour leader (who despite a very large majority was just a lame duck.) In post-1979 politics, only Thatcher and Blair reached those figures. These are figures which are insurmountable by any opposition combined with any potential rebels. It is historically large by any measure, going back to the start of the last century.

Secondly, Boris Johnson has almost no rebels. There's no distinct big wig figures who are ready to challenge him like the threat Thatcher had for eleven years, nor are there any small-time rebels like Corbyn was to almost anything Blair tabled for 10 years. Not a single Conservative Party MP rebelled to any single-line whip so far. Boris' Brexit policy of leaving at the end of January was passed without a single absent/rebellious Nay vote. All Rebels have either moronically left on their own like Soubry, or have been effectively forced out by their local association like Dominic Grieve.

This leaves the Conservative Party in possibly its most 'united' state since the War. Because let's not forget that there were plenty of anti-price controls rebels 1950-1964, and plenty of one nation / social marketers rebels during Thatcher. So far, early in this conservative government, all Tory MPs are united under the Boris vision. There's no disagreement about what the future of the party or the country should be, something not seen in the party since the war at least. Any previous rebels which have managed to stay in the party have been quashed under Boris' boot. Whether this stays true to the future is anyone's guess, but so far there's no evidence to the contrary. Even the ERG rebels are careful about pushing for a no deal Brexit at the end of the transition period, because they have been rendered weak by the supermajority.

I predict that this Tory unity will only break if the current government fails to improve the economic situation in the north, with the 'unity' breaking down geographical lines rather than ideological ones. At a more frivolous guess, perhaps even a split like the National Liberals being the Tory contingent in the north like in the 50s.

Thirdly, Boris Johnson has no contenders. This genuinely is not something that has been seen since shortly after the war, lest you want to consider Harold Wilson relative powerful in this regard. Theresa May was flooded with leadership contenders, and David Cameron wielded a thin line of control. Tony Blair had plenty of cabinet contenders, as did John Major. Thatcher was often overshadowed by them, especially in the latter part of her premiership. Callaghan, Heath, Eden, Macmillan (Night of Long Knives,) Churchill and Attlee all had a similar situation to Cameron or worse. Harold Wilson is a bit debatable, he was a bit of a strongman but he had his public disagreements with cabinet members like George Brown and Patrick Walker.

Boris has none of these. There's no one in the cabinet big enough to challenge him, there's no one in the cabinet who wields more support than him in the parliamentary or membership party, there's no one in the cabinet who disagrees with him in the media or social media. The case with backbenchers is the same. He is the definition of a strongman at the moment, even if he doesn't make it ostentatious.

Ergo/tl;dr, Boris is by far the most "powerful" Prime Minister the UK has had since the war, both in the country and in his party.

Anyone disagrees; and if yes, why?

100% agree with what you said.
Boris Johnson may even be the most powerful prime minister in living memory because he has got rid of the "wets" in his parliamentary party, the main opposition party is at it's weakest level since 1935 and I don't think they're learning their mistakes and finally Johnson has a cult like following amongst the membership.

On the issue of unity, I do believe that the new coalition of conservatives will hold as red wall and the liberal urban labour voters are completely different and have a different vision of their ideal Britain so i don't know how Labour will break the voting coalition.

So what happens when the Conservatives no longer have Brexit to rally those new voters around?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Sinn Fein supports deal to restore devolution in Northern Ireland

Sinn Féin have said they will re-enter devolved government in Northern Ireland after three years of deadlock.

The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) had earlier also given tentative its support to a draft deal to restore Stormont's political institutions.

The British and Irish governments published the draft proposals on Thursday, after nine months of talks.

Stormont's power-sharing coalition, led by the DUP and Sinn Féin, collapsed in January 2017 over a green energy row.

...

Sinn Féin President Mary Lou McDonald told a Stormont press conference that her party will nominate ministers to an executive.

She said Sinn Féin was up for a return to "genuine power sharing".

"I believe power sharing can work but that requires everyone to step up."

"We need to have an inclusive executive."

...

CONTINUES

Oh fuck maybe some progress.

[Souseiseki]

I think mid term Thatcher still has it but I think now the view from inside what most conservatives realise is we have a fantastic oppertunity to shape the country in the post brexit world and that we need to make sure that we are together to do that. I think the way it's gone is a fantastic oppertunity for us.

i can't even pretend that i have a civil response to this

[Gormwood]

Somebody's giddy at the prospect of Boris actually Balkanizing the UK.

Boris Johnson Might Break Up the U.K. That’s a Good Thing

[Souseiseki]

Somebody's giddy at the prospect of Boris actually Balkanizing the UK.

Boris Johnson Might Break Up the U.K. That’s a Good Thing

he's right. the union is dead and basically every country outside of it is better without it. the only possible remedy to this is a radical reformation of national identity and constitutional change that is not even remotely close to happening. boris johnson certainly seems poised to try, but he will be told to fuck right off. he can try turn the north blue but he has absolutely no answer to scotland or northern ireland. england would be legitimately better off just taking a fucking chill pill for the next 10-20 years and re-examining its place in the world after brexit fails to fill the void that the collapse of the empire and thatcherism created, and the only way it can do that is to free itself from the trappings of "britain" and re-establish its own identity.

also, wales exists.