UK Politics Thread XI: Boris' Big Bombastic Brexit Bash

[Alvecia]

Another teenage neo-nazi detained
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-51022706

Is there some link between autism and having far right beliefs? There seem to have been quite a few of them.

Isn't it just a case of discontent with society => propensity for radicalism?

Yeah, but how much of that is discontent is groomed by those attempting to radicalise is the question.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Another teenage neo-nazi detained
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-51022706

Is there some link between autism and having far right beliefs? There seem to have been quite a few of them.

Isn't it just a case of discontent with society => propensity for radicalism?

I have a certain amount of discontent with UK society at the moment. Hasn't made me want to kill anyone though.

[The Blaatschapen]

Another teenage neo-nazi detained
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-51022706

Is there some link between autism and having far right beliefs? There seem to have been quite a few of them.

There's a link to radical ideologies generally, because a common characteristic is a greater tendency to see things in "black and white".

Only Sith deal in absolutes.


And potentially autistic people

[Vassenor]

Isn't it just a case of discontent with society => propensity for radicalism?

Yeah, but how much of that is discontent is groomed by those attempting to radicalise is the question.

And clearly the solution to radicalisation is to alienate those people at risk of radicalisation from society as much as possible.

[The New California Republic]

There's a link to radical ideologies generally, because a common characteristic is a greater tendency to see things in "black and white".

Only Sith deal in absolutes.


And potentially autistic people

That particular line by Obi-Wan didn't make the final cut of Revenge of the Sith, but it's in the bonus materials.

[Alvecia]

Yeah, but how much of that is discontent is groomed by those attempting to radicalise is the question.

And clearly the solution to radicalisation is to alienate those people at risk of radicalisation from society as much as possible.

Er...according to who?

[Dumb Ideologies]

And clearly the solution to radicalisation is to alienate those people at risk of radicalisation from society as much as possible.

Er...according to who?

Their post doesn't make sense unless you become a Premium Forum Member and view this thread's exclusive bonus posts and deleted memes.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

[Vassenor]

And clearly the solution to radicalisation is to alienate those people at risk of radicalisation from society as much as possible.

Er...according to who?

So what is "be exactly like us or get out" all about then?

[Alvecia]

Er...according to who?

So what is "be exactly like us or get out" all about then?

That didn't really answer my question

[Greater vakolicci haven]

There's a link to radical ideologies generally, because a common characteristic is a greater tendency to see things in "black and white". Groups that advocate political violence also actively target them, aware that some are vulnerable to being "converted", and then send them out to do the attacks because martyrdom is always for other people.

That's rather depressing, I wasn't aware of the far right actively targeting people like that.

Oh gods, another person who thinks autistic people are vulnerable and need to be protected.

[Ostroeuropa]

Isn't it just a case of discontent with society => propensity for radicalism?

Yeah, but how much of that is discontent is groomed by those attempting to radicalise is the question.

Almost none of it. Obligatory "Gosh, we shot MLK and arrested all his followers and now Black teens keep joining nation of Islam." slowclap. Moderate and egalitarian movements on behalf of men and boys are marginalized and demonized by society, this is the consequence.

[Alvecia]

Yeah, but how much of that is discontent is groomed by those attempting to radicalise is the question.

Almost none of it. Obligatory "Gosh, we shot MLK and arrested all his followers and now Black teens keep joining nation of Islam." slowclap. Moderate and egalitarian movements on behalf of men and boys are marginalized and demonized by society, this is the consequence.

Speaking of those radicalised on exaggerated discontent....

[Ostroeuropa]

Almost none of it. Obligatory "Gosh, we shot MLK and arrested all his followers and now Black teens keep joining nation of Islam." slowclap. Moderate and egalitarian movements on behalf of men and boys are marginalized and demonized by society, this is the consequence.

Speaking of those radicalised on exaggerated discontent....

How are you defining radical? Or exaggerated discontent? Elaborate, please.

[Ifreann]

That's rather depressing, I wasn't aware of the far right actively targeting people like that.

Oh gods, another person who thinks autistic people are vulnerable and need to be protected.

Lots of people are vulnerable to far right recruitment tactics. Obviously, or the far right would be about six people.

[Alvecia]

Speaking of those radicalised on exaggerated discontent....

How are you defining radical? Or exaggerated discontent? Elaborate, please.

Radical - extreme
exaggerated - overblown
discontent - unhappiness(?), unease maybe

I've always struggled with synonyms.

[Ostroeuropa]

How are you defining radical? Or exaggerated discontent? Elaborate, please.

Radical - extreme
exaggerated - overblown
discontent - unhappiness(?), unease maybe

I've always struggled with synonyms.

1.
Reminder; anti-feminist views even among young people are incredibly normal despite the presentation of them as fringe in a media largely concerned with controlling the overton window to suit current power structures. Polling demonstrates a quarter of young women and over 40% of young men are anti-feminist and blame feminism for the marginalization and demonization of men in society, while feminism polls around 20% among young women and 7% among young men.

Anti-feminism has more support (33%) than the Labour Party (32%). Even up to 66% support depending on how you frame the question (Such as; "Should feminism in the united kingdom end?", but No poll question can deliver Labour a 66% landslide.

So... extreme? How so?

2. Thinking this is the case is one of the reasons mens issues aren't taken seriously. What about the stance I take is overblown? Be specific. Which element is exaggerated. Is it statistics? Am I messing with stats? Presenting it as the inevitable step toward some dystopian future where that's not necessarily true? Gosh. Those both seem more common from the feminist movement, don't they.

3. I'm quite contended in life thankyou, after some time to get there. My views remain unchanged. Furthermore this explanation you offer doesn't explain why anti-feminism is more popular among young women in the UK than feminism is. Maybe it's not a radical, extreme, thing to be doing, and people join this movement because of principles they hold.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Oh gods, another person who thinks autistic people are vulnerable and need to be protected.

Lots of people are vulnerable to far right recruitment tactics. Obviously, or the far right would be about six people.

Or maybe they make decisions regarding their own beliefs that happen to align with the far right?

[Ostroeuropa]

Lots of people are vulnerable to far right recruitment tactics. Obviously, or the far right would be about six people.

Or maybe they make decisions regarding their own beliefs that happen to align with the far right?

The far-right offers a vision of society hostile to them for their demographic. This aligns with their lived experiences. It does not however properly diagnose the reasons for it and instead invites them to emulate the people hostile to them. It's like I said, if you do your damnedest to marginalize reasonable critique of racism while giving huge amounts of focus to the Nation of Islam as "The opposition" and "The movement for black people" discussion of black teens issues and keep pushing systemic racism on them, the Nation of Islam starts making sense to them.

You're more correct than Ifreann, but it doesn't explain the full picture. It's like if you banned all criticism of capitalism from being acknowledged by the media except full blown communism and kept giving communism focus while denouncing everyone else as secretly communist and then launching into an explanation of the communist manifesto and what it entails and namedropping karl marx constantly while accusing everyone of being in cahoots with him.

Soon enough, you wouldn't have as many social democrats or socialists, and you'd have a lot more communists.

Especially when the communists then come along, put their arm over your shoulder and say; "He's absolutely right comrade, it's us or them.".

The issue is the dichotomy set up by a society that hates men and treats them as second class citizens, and in that dichotomy the movement that acknowledges that is true is going to sound more legit than the one that denies it, regardless of other factors.

[Gormwood]

(Image)

I don't see a walk-in freezer.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Or maybe they make decisions regarding their own beliefs that happen to align with the far right?

The far-right offers a vision of society hostile to them for their demographic. This aligns with their lived experiences. It does not however properly diagnose the reasons for it and instead invites them to emulate the people hostile to them. It's like I said, if you do your damnedest to marginalize reasonable critique of racism while giving huge amounts of focus to the Nation of Islam as "The opposition" and "The movement for black people" discussion of black teens issues and keep pushing systemic racism on them, the Nation of Islam starts making sense to them.

You're more correct than Ifreann, but it doesn't explain the full picture. It's like if you banned all criticism of capitalism from being acknowledged by the media except full blown communism and kept giving communism focus while denouncing everyone else as secretly communist and then launching into an explanation of the communist manifesto and what it entails and namedropping karl marx constantly while accusing everyone of being in cahoots with him.

Soon enough, you wouldn't have as many social democrats or socialists, and you'd have a lot more communists.

Especially when the communists then come along, put their arm over your shoulder and say; "He's absolutely right comrade, it's us or them.".

The issue is the dichotomy set up by a society that hates men and treats them as second class citizens, and in that dichotomy the movement that acknowledges that is true is going to sound more legit than the one that denies it, regardless of other factors.

I'm referring more to the belief that the numbers of autistic people in far-right groups is because they are somehow vulnerable, or manipulated by incredibly talented 'recruiters' to convince them to join.
They're just not...they're simply very right wing.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Lots of people are vulnerable to far right recruitment tactics. Obviously, or the far right would be about six people.

Or maybe they make decisions regarding their own beliefs that happen to align with the far right?

That's why it would be six people and not zero.
People don't usually decide to follow ideologies if nobody's explained what the ideology is, what it's trying to do, and why it's better than other ideologies trying to do the same thing. Without some form of recruitment tactics employed, the word doesn't get out and the ideology dies.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Or maybe they make decisions regarding their own beliefs that happen to align with the far right?

That's why it would be six people and not zero.
People don't usually decide to follow ideologies if nobody's explained what the ideology is, what it's trying to do, and why it's better than other ideologies trying to do the same thing. Without some form of recruitment tactics employed, the word doesn't get out and the ideology dies.

I can quite easily find far-right literature on the internet. Admitedly trying to make me more right-wing would probably be a silly thing to do, but if I was convinced by someones belief that we should kill all the jews it would be me making the decision to follow it, and entirely on my head. I would not play the autism card for having a belief like that, because I find those who use autism as an excuse for vile behaviour are simply using it to gain undue sympathy from others. Since I do not believe we should kill all the jews, this is a moot point. After all, as we all know the cause of all our problems as a country are the gingers, and there is a way of curing gingerism that doesn't lead to any deaths.

[Ifreann]

Lots of people are vulnerable to far right recruitment tactics. Obviously, or the far right would be about six people.

Or maybe they make decisions regarding their own beliefs that happen to align with the far right?

That would be the six people.

[The Blaatschapen]

Or maybe they make decisions regarding their own beliefs that happen to align with the far right?

That's why it would be six people and not zero.
People don't usually decide to follow ideologies if nobody's explained what the ideology is, what it's trying to do, and why it's better than other ideologies trying to do the same thing. Without some form of recruitment tactics employed, the word doesn't get out and the ideology dies.

I bet I can get seven people to follow Blaatism, it is the new cool ideology

Any takers?