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UK Politics Thread XI: Boris' Big Bombastic Brexit Bash

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who do you support to become the next Labour Party Leader?

Clive Lewis (DROPPED OUT)
2
2%
Keir Starmer (Shadow Brexit Secretary, MP for Holborn and St Pancras)
48
41%
Lisa Nandy (MP for Wigan)
11
9%
Jess Phillips (DROPPED OUT)
17
15%
Emily Thornberry (Shadow First Secretary of State, MP for Islington South and Finsbury)
7
6%
Yvette Cooper (DROPPED OUT)
1
1%
Dan Jarvis (DROPPED OUT)
1
1%
Ian Lavery (DROPPED OUT)
1
1%
Rebecca Long Bailey (Shadow Business Secretary, MP for Salford and Eccles)
17
15%
Other (Please state who in a reply)
11
9%
 
Total votes : 116

User avatar
Chan Island
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Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Chan Island » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:26 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
This.
Starmer can convincingly make the case he is a moderate and not a progressive type given his record in public prosecutions where he didn't push the unhinged cases we saw after he left the position despite the same laws being on the books; No Nazi pug trial equivalent, no collapse of due process on rape cases, and so on.

Whether he can convincingly do that and advance new policies on those topics remains to be seen, but his record can be used to support that narrative. Beyond that there's a question on whether he can convincingly be nationalistic.

But he's the best shot on those topics other than a blue Labour type.

Wasn't Nazi pug in the jurisdiction of COPFS?


Yes but it occurred after Keir Starmer was in the COPFS. He was in parliament by then.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Posts: 18661
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:13 am

Chan Island wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Wasn't Nazi pug in the jurisdiction of COPFS?


Yes but it occurred after Keir Starmer was in the COPFS. He was in parliament by then.

But surely his successor wasn't responsible either? Wouldn't that be the advocate general?
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:13 am

So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:15 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:No Nazi pug trial equivalent


he's alledged to have pushed the twitter joke trial, though it seems hard to confirm either way.

i wrote a response to you before but i lost it before i could post it. the short version is something similar to what you said about feminism/progressivism within the labour party. you absolutely do not become head of the CPS without being some kind of dumb asshole, because the political climate of the CPS forces anyone that wants to get that far to be some kind of dumb asshole. he is poisoned by labour and the CPS through and through.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:18 am

Greed and Death wrote:So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?

We shall be sending our most strongly worded letters to support the war effort.

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:19 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:No Nazi pug trial equivalent


he's alledged to have pushed the twitter joke trial, though it seems hard to confirm either way.

i wrote a response to you before but i lost it before i could post it. the short version is something similar to what you said about feminism/progressivism within the labour party. you absolutely do not become head of the CPS without being some kind of dumb asshole, because the political climate of the CPS forces anyone that wants to get that far to be some kind of dumb asshole. he is poisoned by labour and the CPS through and through.

I think I'd struggle to vote for a prosecutor, regardless of his political leanings.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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The Alma Mater
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Posts: 25619
Founded: May 23, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:20 am

Greed and Death wrote:So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?


Depends. Will you kill Boris Johnson when he visits the Netherlands if the Brits say no ?
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

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Souseiseki
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Posts: 19625
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:20 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:
he's alledged to have pushed the twitter joke trial, though it seems hard to confirm either way.

i wrote a response to you before but i lost it before i could post it. the short version is something similar to what you said about feminism/progressivism within the labour party. you absolutely do not become head of the CPS without being some kind of dumb asshole, because the political climate of the CPS forces anyone that wants to get that far to be some kind of dumb asshole. he is poisoned by labour and the CPS through and through.

I think I'd struggle to vote for a prosecutor, regardless of his political leanings.


agreed
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

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Hydesland
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Posts: 15120
Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Hydesland » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:37 am

Vassenor wrote:
Hydesland wrote:So it looks like the '88% of Tory ads false, 0% labour ads false' claim turned out to be bullshit, unsurprisingly: https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co ... -lies.html

Not the best source but the analysis stands on its own.


Because 88/7 makes the Conservatives look so much better. Clearly.


Try actually reading the article, because it's definitely not claiming 88/7 is the true figure.

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Hydesland
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Posts: 15120
Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Hydesland » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:38 am

Greed and Death wrote:So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?


You're on your own mate, I'd stock up on rad-x if I were you.

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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:41 am

Greed and Death wrote:So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?

Lol. No. We aren't falling for that one again. Once bitten, twice shy.

Hydesland wrote:You're on your own mate, I'd stock up on rad-x if I were you.

And RadAway in case anybody forgets.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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User avatar
Definitely Not Trumptonium
Diplomat
 
Posts: 724
Founded: Mar 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Definitely Not Trumptonium » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:41 am

Greed and Death wrote:So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?


Great testing ground for our new Raptor drones.
Last edited by Definitely Not Trumptonium on Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
I sexually identify as Michael Jackson and my preferred pronouns are He / Hee!

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:43 am

Hydesland wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Because 88/7 makes the Conservatives look so much better. Clearly.


Try actually reading the article, because it's definitely not claiming 88/7 is the true figure.


No, it's just trying to force a BOTHSAME narrative by claiming that because Labour lied a couple of times it was OK for the Conservatives to lie through their teeth or try to equivocate by saying they weren't really lies because they were too vague.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:43 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?


Depends. Will you kill Boris Johnson when he visits the Netherlands if the Brits say no ?


If you say no we fund a coup that puts him in power for life.

How about that ?
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:43 am

Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?


Great testing ground for our new Raptor drones.

Don't need a war to test drones nowadays. ;)
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:45 am

See, this is what we mean when we say Brexit has given us less control over our foreign policy. We're very much stuck in a "when I say jump, you say how high" situation with the US now because they've got us over a barrel.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

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Hydesland
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Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Hydesland » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:45 am

Vassenor wrote:
Hydesland wrote:
Try actually reading the article, because it's definitely not claiming 88/7 is the true figure.


No *snip*


Then don't comment.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:45 am

Alvecia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:So I assume you Brits will be up for helping us with the war against Iran ?

We shall be sending our most strongly worded letters to support the war effort.


I hope you understand when we commandeer you entire tea supply for the war effort.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

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Greed and Death
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Founded: Mar 20, 2008
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:46 am

Vassenor wrote:See, this is what we mean when we say Brexit has given us less control over our foreign policy. We're very much stuck in a "when I say jump, you say how high" situation with the US now because they've got us over a barrel.


We expect to see the royal marines making a beach head in Iran by 0700 hours.
Last edited by Greed and Death on Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:47 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Vassenor wrote:See, this is what we mean when we say Brexit has given us less control over our foreign policy. We're very much stuck in a "when I say jump, you say how high" situation with the US now because they've got us over a barrel.


We expect to see the royal marines making a beach head in Iran by 0700 hours.

It'd more likely be the SBS first.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Alvecia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20360
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:47 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Alvecia wrote:We shall be sending our most strongly worded letters to support the war effort.


I hope you understand when we commandeer you entire tea supply for the war effort.

You know, maybe Iran has a point....

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Chan Island
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Posts: 6824
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Chan Island » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:49 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Alvecia wrote:We shall be sending our most strongly worded letters to support the war effort.


I hope you understand when we commandeer you entire tea supply for the war effort.


Do you want Britain to fight alongside Iran? Because that's how you'd get Britain to fight alongside Iran. :p
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

User avatar
Definitely Not Trumptonium
Diplomat
 
Posts: 724
Founded: Mar 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Definitely Not Trumptonium » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:52 am

Vassenor wrote:See, this is what we mean when we say Brexit has given us less control over our foreign policy. We're very much stuck in a "when I say jump, you say how high" situation with the US now because they've got us over a barrel.



The UK is very much free to avoid going to war with Iran if that is what the UK pleases.

Unfortunately, the state of Iran has been conducting terrorist activity against UK assets, not least UK tankers and boats, causing not just economic damage en masse but also lives. The state of Iran has also contributed to terrorist attacks which targeted UK citizens, and as such quelling that rogue state is in UK interests.

One hundred years and more ago, this type of thing was UK's modus operandi. It should be again.
I sexually identify as Michael Jackson and my preferred pronouns are He / Hee!

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 am

Chan Island wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
I hope you understand when we commandeer you entire tea supply for the war effort.


Do you want Britain to fight alongside Iran? Because that's how you'd get Britain to fight alongside Iran. :p


By our calculations your military would likely accidentally invade Iran during tea withdrawals.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:58 am

Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:
Vassenor wrote:See, this is what we mean when we say Brexit has given us less control over our foreign policy. We're very much stuck in a "when I say jump, you say how high" situation with the US now because they've got us over a barrel.



The UK is very much free to avoid going to war with Iran if that is what the UK pleases.

Unfortunately, the state of Iran has been conducting terrorist activity against UK assets, not least UK tankers and boats, causing not just economic damage en masse but also lives. The state of Iran has also contributed to terrorist attacks which targeted UK citizens, and as such quelling that rogue state is in UK interests.

One hundred years and more ago, this type of thing was UK's modus operandi. It should be again.

Wonder why they hate us so much?
Shall we go back in history and take a look?
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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