UK Politics Thread XI: Boris' Big Bombastic Brexit Bash

[The New California Republic]

Hopefully with automation we can have robots doing that job soon, so the problem will not even occur.

That sounds awesome. A robot army keeping society safe, totally and unquestioningly loyal.

...until they rebel.

[Souseiseki]

are you gonna pay for them lol

I'd be happy to pay for part of it, voluntarily, if it was required to keep me safe. 'Voluntarily' is the important bit.

it's going to be absurdly expensive though. why shouldn't the people that can actually afford it not just keep it to themselves and leave you to get eaten by the commies? what benefit do they get from paying for your protection?

[San Lumen]

Hopefully with automation we can have robots doing that job soon, so the problem will not even occur.

That sounds awesome. A robot army keeping society safe, totally and unquestioningly loyal.

VIKI and Sonny say hello.

[Purgatio]

They're getting paid, more so than the people they will be shooting at. It'll be fine.

for reference this is how south american dictatorships work and maintain their power, so thank you for taking us from the UK to that

Hey, you're welcome, so glad I could help!!

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Hopefully with automation we can have robots doing that job soon, so the problem will not even occur.

That sounds awesome. A robot army keeping society safe, totally and unquestioningly loyal.

Loyal to me. Otherwise it sounds dreadful. They should be loyal to me, you'd like that. Imagine how good the world would be f everyone if I had a robot army.

[Crysuko]

Conveniently forgetting those who need life saving and otherwise important treatments otherwise.

If you're gonna damage your own body, that's fine with me - pay for it yourself. I keep myself healthy and don't put that shit in me, in what just universe should I be required to bail out the irresponsible who choose to risk their own bodies when I'm responsible with my own?

Victim blaming. Nice. So if I get a disease from some asshole bacteria, that's my fault?
If I slip on a surface that wasn't marked as such, and wasn't visible from the angle, causing me to break my arm, that's my fault?
If my work mandates quarterly checkups, that's my fault?

Christ, man. At least appear to be humane, if you want to say fuck the poor, just come right out and say it.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Because the fucking law says so?
You apparently have very a different definition of human rights to literally every scholar, academic and legislation on the subject.

Can I have your sources on this please?

The UK is a party to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and has been since its in-effect date of 1976. Article 11 imposes upon signatories a number of rights based around the concept of 'an adequate standard of living', including the rights to adequate food, housing and clothing. Article 12 recognises the right of everyone to "the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health". Article 13 recognises the right of free, universal and compulsory education at the primary level immediately, and at the secondary level eventually. It also mandates that this must be available without discrimination. Article 13 also recognises the rights of freedom of education, protecting parents choice's in where their child goes to school and this provision is also essentially why the government couldn't ban the likes of Eton from operating, as well also requiring states to respect the academic freedom of staff and student.

Human rights is a much bigger and wider subject than just 'freedom from being shot in the face by the government' - and more people should know their rights, before the Tories try to take them away.

[Salandriagado]

How the fuck do you think any sort of ownership came about historically speaking?

It doesn't matter, because however it came about centuries ago, during that same period numerous contracts, transactions and sales have taken place, so today, if you have private property, as a proximate matter it was gained through a lawful and consensual transaction. What is it with leftists and wanting the people living today to be held hostage to the bad things people did centuries ago? Structuring an entire economic system all because you think people who are now long dead did bad things in the long long ago is....just dumb. Seriously.

So exactly how many years does it take for receiving stolen goods to go from being a crime to being a human right?

[Fartsniffage]

But the army doesn't use swords anymore. It uses highly sophisticated weapons and equipment. Where are you going to find your pool of people well educated enough to operate and repair them?

Army scholarships can exist.

Good idea.

But then you need to supply your army. Building modern weapons systems is incredibly complex. And designing them is even more so. You'd need university level educated people for that. The people in the bullets factories would probably get by with a high school level education.

But shit, you need brass and lead to make the bullets. Better set up some mining engineer scholarships as well. Of course you'll need roads and railways to transport the materials, structural engineer scholarships and mechanical engineer scholarships to fix that issue. And the refining can be solved with chemical engineering scholarships.

But that's all you'd need I'm sure.

[Purgatio]

They're getting paid, more so than the people they will be shooting at. It'll be fine.

Tell that to all the governments overthrown by revolution. The people in the military do not necessarily share your values (care only about money). And why does the military need you? The military can get even better pay by demanding you pay more and more.

The military is in fact superior in power to you.

What is they decide they want the property you claim?

Unless the generals and military leadership are paid very well and hence themselves part of the propertied classes too.

[San Lumen]

That sounds awesome. A robot army keeping society safe, totally and unquestioningly loyal.

Loyal to me. Otherwise it sounds dreadful. They should be loyal to me, you'd like that. Imagine how good the world would be f everyone if I had a robot army.

In the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic you are under arrest Chancellor

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Thing about people who smoke, drink, eat unhealthily and don't exercise is they may cost more in terms of health care, but they don't cost as much in pensions because they die younger.

[Purgatio]

It doesn't matter, because however it came about centuries ago, during that same period numerous contracts, transactions and sales have taken place, so today, if you have private property, as a proximate matter it was gained through a lawful and consensual transaction. What is it with leftists and wanting the people living today to be held hostage to the bad things people did centuries ago? Structuring an entire economic system all because you think people who are now long dead did bad things in the long long ago is....just dumb. Seriously.

So exactly how many years does it take for receiving stolen goods to go from being a crime to being a human right?

60-70 years sounds long enough, by then any proximate causal chain between a historical injustice and a future property owner is more than strained to breaking point.

[Novus America]

A largely publicly funded system can and probably should require such people to pay more.

It does. Fags cost about £12 a pack now, the vast majority of is is tax. Drinkers pay high taxes on booze. Fatties pay VAT on their chocolate digestives.

Cool. So then we already fixed the problem. So Purgatio has no argument.

[Purgatio]

Can I have your sources on this please?

The UK is a party to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and has been since its in-effect date of 1976. Article 11 imposes upon signatories a number of rights based around the concept of 'an adequate standard of living', including the rights to adequate food, housing and clothing. Article 12 recognises the right of everyone to "the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health". Article 13 recognises the right of free, universal and compulsory education at the primary level immediately, and at the secondary level eventually. It also mandates that this must be available without discrimination. Article 13 also recognises the rights of freedom of education, protecting parents choice's in where their child goes to school and this provision is also essentially why the government couldn't ban the likes of Eton from operating, as well also requiring states to respect the academic freedom of staff and student.

Human rights is a much bigger and wider subject than just 'freedom from being shot in the face by the government' - and more people should know their rights, before the Tories try to take them away.

Yikes, looks like its time to withdraw from a treaty.

[Kowani]

Tell that to all the governments overthrown by revolution. The people in the military do not necessarily share your values (care only about money). And why does the military need you? The military can get even better pay by demanding you pay more and more.

The military is in fact superior in power to you.

What is they decide they want the property you claim?

Unless the generals and military leadership are paid very well and hence themselves part of the propertied classes too.

You know who paid his generals well? Mobutu. Yet that’s didn’t stop him from being overthrown.

[Crysuko]

What is it with the right and forgetting that the people who benefit most the universal healthcare are just ordinary people who need their injuries and illnesses fixed? Answer me. Because the two here arguing against it seem to keep sidestepping this point.

You're not punishing the fat and lazy, you're strangling the poor who can't afford those treatments themselves.

[The New California Republic]

That sounds awesome. A robot army keeping society safe, totally and unquestioningly loyal.

Loyal to me. Otherwise it sounds dreadful. They should be loyal to me, you'd like that. Imagine how good the world would be f everyone if I had a robot army.

I think you are confusing "everyone" with "me". Such a world would be shit for everyone else.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Can I have your sources on this please?

The UK is a party to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and has been since its in-effect date of 1976. Article 11 imposes upon signatories a number of rights based around the concept of 'an adequate standard of living', including the rights to adequate food, housing and clothing. Article 12 recognises the right of everyone to "the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health". Article 13 recognises the right of free, universal and compulsory education at the primary level immediately, and at the secondary level eventually. It also mandates that this must be available without discrimination. Article 13 also recognises the rights of freedom of education, protecting parents choice's in where their child goes to school and this provision is also essentially why the government couldn't ban the likes of Eton from operating, as well also requiring states to respect the academic freedom of staff and student.

Human rights is a much bigger and wider subject than just 'freedom from being shot in the face by the government' - and more people should know their rights, before the Tories try to take them away.

This treaty that hasn't been passed into UK law yet, right? There are a lot of treaties we've signed and ratified and then left on the shelf, in international law we're bound by it though.

[Purgatio]

Unless the generals and military leadership are paid very well and hence themselves part of the propertied classes too.

You know who paid his generals well? Mobutu. Yet that’s didn’t stop him from being overthrown.

Seemed to work well for a lot of right-wing juntas in Latin America. Something like the Brazilian junta would be a pretty good model I think, they weren't violently overthrown.

[Novus America]

Tell that to all the governments overthrown by revolution. The people in the military do not necessarily share your values (care only about money). And why does the military need you? The military can get even better pay by demanding you pay more and more.

The military is in fact superior in power to you.

What is they decide they want the property you claim?

Unless the generals and military leadership are paid very well and hence themselves part of the propertied classes too.

The generals and leadership in the old monarchies were nobility. Still many ended up overthrown.
Generals cannot fight without the support of the basic enlisted.

And in your system what stops the generals from demanding they get more pay and property than you do?

[Crysuko]

Unless the generals and military leadership are paid very well and hence themselves part of the propertied classes too.

The generals and leadership in the old monarchies were nobility. Still many ended up overthrown.
Generals cannot fight without the support of the basic enlisted.

And in your system what stops the generals from demanding they get more pay and property than you do?

Franco approves.

[Purgatio]

What is it with the right and forgetting that the people who benefit most the universal healthcare are just ordinary people who need their injuries and illnesses fixed? Answer me. Because the two here arguing against it seem to keep sidestepping this point.

You're not punishing the fat and lazy, you're strangling the poor who can't afford those treatments themselves.

Its not punishment, its just not giving them stuff we have. You're not entitled to other people's stuff by right, ultimately none of us are individually responsible for any illnesses or medical conditions anyone may have. That's nature's fault. We didn't cause that, so its not our job to pay for it or be burdened by it.

[Salandriagado]

Tell that to all the governments overthrown by revolution. The people in the military do not necessarily share your values (care only about money). And why does the military need you? The military can get even better pay by demanding you pay more and more.

The military is in fact superior in power to you.

What is they decide they want the property you claim?

Unless the generals and military leadership are paid very well and hence themselves part of the propertied classes too.

Military leadership with more connection to their superiors than those under their command tend to get mutinied. To be blunt: if your soldiers want to start a rebellion and you say "no", they're just going to start by rebelling against you.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Unless the generals and military leadership are paid very well and hence themselves part of the propertied classes too.

You know who paid his generals well? Mobutu. Yet that’s didn’t stop him from being overthrown.

It just leads to a cycle of military dictatorships being over thrown by military coups. Roman emperors being killed by their bodyguards who then appoint one of their own as the next emperor...