UK Politics Thread XI: Boris' Big Bombastic Brexit Bash

[Thermodolia]

I’ve got my PR House of Commons calculator all set up. The day after the results are posted you’ll see my post about how the election would have looked using a Party list PR system, both national and regional district systems will be shown.

And yes this will be a semi-regular thing from me

Gib NI PR results


gib

It will be as you command

[Crysuko]

Boris Johnson condemned in brutal direct attack by London Bridge victim's father: 'He’s the worst of us and he’s taking you for a ride'

So the father of one of the LB victims hasn't just condemned Boris, he's openly advocating people vote to dump the Conservatives.

Why is anyone supposed to care

if you had a grain of compassion, you'd know.

[Dooom35796821595]

Why is anyone supposed to care

if you had a grain of compassion, you'd know.

That has nothing to do with it, it’s a man using the death of his son to support a political agenda. It’s damn disgusting, and I’d be horrified if any on my relatives did something like that.

[Vassenor]

Why is anyone supposed to care

if you had a grain of compassion, you'd know.

But how dare he have problems with the Conservatives using the death of his son for political points scoring.

[Dooom35796821595]

if you had a grain of compassion, you'd know.

But how dare he have problems with the Conservatives using the death of his son for political points scoring.

All the parties were doing it, and so was he which actually makes him worse.

[Gormwood]

if you had a grain of compassion, you'd know.

But how dare he have problems with the Conservatives using the death of his son for political points scoring.

You're only allowed to use the death of loved ones to shill for Tory agendas. *nod nod*

[Gormwood]

But how dare he have problems with the Conservatives using the death of his son for political points scoring.

All the parties were doing it, and so was he which actually makes him worse.

But nobody got upset at Johnson using it to push Tough On Crime before getting upset at the father and comparing him to Jo Cox's widower.

[Vassenor]

But how dare he have problems with the Conservatives using the death of his son for political points scoring.

All the parties were doing it, and so was he which actually makes him worse.

And where did he do that? And of course we're back to the same old #butbothsides horseshit.

[Dooom35796821595]

All the parties were doing it, and so was he which actually makes him worse.

But nobody got upset at Johnson using it to push Tough On Crime before getting upset at the father and comparing him to Jo Cox's widower.

What are you talking about?

You know “all the parties” includes Conservatives right? And that’s Boris leading them, so he’s included in the condemnation.

And while you can sympathise with the relatives of the victims, that doesn’t make it acceptable for them to use the death of that person to push their own political agenda.

[Gormwood]

But nobody got upset at Johnson using it to push Tough On Crime before getting upset at the father and comparing him to Jo Cox's widower.

What are you talking about?

You know “all the parties” includes Conservatives right? And that’s Boris leading them, so he’s included in the condemnation.

And while you can sympathise with the relatives of the victims, that doesn’t make it acceptable for them to use the death of that person to push their own political agenda.

The first reply to Johnson exploiting the death:

Boris Johnson condemned in brutal direct attack by London Bridge victim's father: 'He’s the worst of us and he’s taking you for a ride'

So the father of one of the LB victims hasn't just condemned Boris, he's openly advocating people vote to dump the Conservatives.

That guy sounds like Jo Cox's husband, shamelessly using the death of a family member to push a political agenda.

Johnson sure got called out there.

[Dooom35796821595]

All the parties were doing it, and so was he which actually makes him worse.

And where did he do that? And of course we're back to the same old #butbothsides horseshit.

You wrote it yourself.

“So the father of one of the LB victims hasn't just condemned Boris, he's openly advocating people vote to dump the Conservatives.“

That’s using his sons death to push a political agenda, just like Boris.

No, you're pretending like Boris and the Conservatives are the only bad option in this election.

[Fartsniffage]

And where did he do that? And of course we're back to the same old #butbothsides horseshit.

You wrote it yourself.

“So the father of one of the LB victims hasn't just condemned Boris, he's openly advocating people vote to dump the Conservatives.“

That’s using his sons death to push a political agenda, just like Boris.

No, you're pretending like Boris and the Conservatives are the only bad option in this election.

The fact you can't see the difference is worrying.

[Dooom35796821595]

You wrote it yourself.

“So the father of one of the LB victims hasn't just condemned Boris, he's openly advocating people vote to dump the Conservatives.“

That’s using his sons death to push a political agenda, just like Boris.

No, you're pretending like Boris and the Conservatives are the only bad option in this election.

The fact you can't see the difference is worrying.

The difference is one is PM, and expected to address this, the other is just a normal person who is only getting media attention because his son was killed. He should have stopped after the condemnation, not going on to push HIS political opinion.

And I’m not condoning any of the political responses to this, they shouldn’t be using it for their own political gain.

[New Bremerton]

Hillary Clinton might want to be careful what she wishes for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6nSo4W-C8s

Russia Linked to Leaked Document Behind Corbyn’s NHS Risk Claim
Bloomberg
Nathan Crooks and Alyza Sebenius
,Bloomberg•December 7, 2019
(Bloomberg) -- Sign up to our Brexit Bulletin, follow us @Brexit and subscribe to our podcast.

Russia has been linked to the leak of U.K. government documents behind Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn’s election-campaign claim that the Conservative Party would put the National Health Service on the table in trade talks with the U.S.

Social news and aggregation firm Reddit Inc. on Friday banned 61 accounts under its policies against “vote manipulation” ahead of Britain’s general election on Dec. 12. The accounts, which were used to draw attention to the trade documents, were “part of a campaign that has been reported as originating from Russia,” according to Reddit.

The documents have become a staple of Labour’s election campaign. Corbyn has repeatedly waved them at campaign events to publicly accuse Prime Minister Boris Johnson and the Conservatives of putting the NHS at risk in talks on a future free-trade deal with the U.S. Johnson has consistently denied he would open the healthcare system to U.S. interests, calling the charge “pure Bermuda-triangle stuff” during the most recent debate.

Public Interest

When asked about the Russia link on Saturday, Corbyn dismissed it as “nonsense,” and pointed out that Johnson has never denied the documents’ authenticity.

“The issues are that those documents show exactly what the British government was doing in discussions with Donald Trump’s administration in the U.S., and also why the prime minister has refused to release the report on Russian interference in British politics, which he’s been sitting on for a very long time,” Corbyn said on Sky News.

Corbyn was referring to Johnson’s refusal to release a report by a U.K. intelligence watchdog that raises concern about Russian interference in the campaign. The Labour Party released the trade documents because they are “clearly in the public interest,” a spokesman said on Saturday. Corbyn has refused to identify the source of the leak.

Johnson has managed to brush back Corbyn’s attacks over the NHS and kept the Conservative campaign focused on his pledge to complete the U.K.’s exit from the European Union, a strategy that appears to be working. With less than a week to the vote, the last five major polls gave the Conservatives an average lead of around 10 percentage points. Johnson is heading for a clear victory, senior officials in both main parties told Bloomberg.

‘Secondary Infektion’

Reddit said its investigation occurred after Facebook Inc. discovered a Russian campaign on its network earlier this year dubbed “Secondary Infektion.” More recent accounts on Reddit bear similarities to that campaign, “causing us to believe that this was indeed tied to the original group,” the firm said.

“Suspect accounts on Reddit were recently reported to us, along with indicators from law enforcement, and we were able to confirm that they did indeed show a pattern of coordination,” Reddit said. The banned accounts will be preserved for a time so that they can be scrutinized by researchers and the public.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov has said there are no grounds for the accusations against Russia.

The Reddit accounts were removed after social media research firm Graphika Inc. published a blog on Dec. 2 saying that hundred of pages of leaked documents on trade between the U.S. and U.K. were amplified online in a manner “closely” resembling tactics used in the Secondary Infektion campaign.

The U.K. operation appeared to start in October when “a German-language persona” that called itself Max Ostermann posted information about the leaked trade documents to three websites including German subreddit r/de, as well as an Austrian local-news blog and a Berlin-based platform, according to Graphika.

The documents were then amplified using tactics previously seen in Secondary Infektion. These tactics included the use of “burner accounts” -- which post once before apparently being abandoned -- as well use of a “conspiracy site” called beforeitsnews.com, the Graphika report said.

“Even before the Reddit post, the big question was how the unredacted U.K. documents ended up online,” said Ben Nimmo, director of investigations at Graphika. “That question just got bigger.”

--With assistance from Tim Ross.

[Fartsniffage]

And where did he do that? And of course we're back to the same old #butbothsides horseshit.

You wrote it yourself.

“So the father of one of the LB victims hasn't just condemned Boris, he's openly advocating people vote to dump the Conservatives.“

That’s using his sons death to push a political agenda, just like Boris.

No, you're pretending like Boris and the Conservatives are the only bad option in this election.

Nah.

The guy asked Johnson not to use it and he did. So the father is using his very limited fame to call him a cunt over it. The father is in the right.

[SD_Film Artists]

That's because it's full of Democrats
More to the point, during Corbyn-Boris debates there's no representation for remainers.

There's thousands of ideologies that wouldn't be represented in a 10-way debate between all parties with more than 0.5% in the polls, not least communists and fascists of which there are plenty in this country.

What's your point? Are you seriously comparing pro-remain people- a large segmant of the population, perhaps even the majority- with niche political groups?

Why not hear the views of other parties? Otherwise you're just encouraging the tired, anachronistic two-party system.

Well, would you like to hear the views of people you legitimately can't even vote for as they don't stand nationwide but in a single region? Surely they're a waste of time outside of local TV.

The SNP and Plaid aren't everything. There's other parties too.

[Vassenor]

Hillary Clinton might want to be careful what she wishes for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6nSo4W-C8s

Russia Linked to Leaked Document Behind Corbyn’s NHS Risk Claim
Bloomberg
Nathan Crooks and Alyza Sebenius
,Bloomberg•December 7, 2019
(Bloomberg) -- Sign up to our Brexit Bulletin, follow us @Brexit and subscribe to our podcast.

Russia has been linked to the leak of U.K. government documents behind Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn’s election-campaign claim that the Conservative Party would put the National Health Service on the table in trade talks with the U.S.

Social news and aggregation firm Reddit Inc. on Friday banned 61 accounts under its policies against “vote manipulation” ahead of Britain’s general election on Dec. 12. The accounts, which were used to draw attention to the trade documents, were “part of a campaign that has been reported as originating from Russia,” according to Reddit.

The documents have become a staple of Labour’s election campaign. Corbyn has repeatedly waved them at campaign events to publicly accuse Prime Minister Boris Johnson and the Conservatives of putting the NHS at risk in talks on a future free-trade deal with the U.S. Johnson has consistently denied he would open the healthcare system to U.S. interests, calling the charge “pure Bermuda-triangle stuff” during the most recent debate.

Public Interest

When asked about the Russia link on Saturday, Corbyn dismissed it as “nonsense,” and pointed out that Johnson has never denied the documents’ authenticity.

“The issues are that those documents show exactly what the British government was doing in discussions with Donald Trump’s administration in the U.S., and also why the prime minister has refused to release the report on Russian interference in British politics, which he’s been sitting on for a very long time,” Corbyn said on Sky News.

Corbyn was referring to Johnson’s refusal to release a report by a U.K. intelligence watchdog that raises concern about Russian interference in the campaign. The Labour Party released the trade documents because they are “clearly in the public interest,” a spokesman said on Saturday. Corbyn has refused to identify the source of the leak.

Johnson has managed to brush back Corbyn’s attacks over the NHS and kept the Conservative campaign focused on his pledge to complete the U.K.’s exit from the European Union, a strategy that appears to be working. With less than a week to the vote, the last five major polls gave the Conservatives an average lead of around 10 percentage points. Johnson is heading for a clear victory, senior officials in both main parties told Bloomberg.

‘Secondary Infektion’

Reddit said its investigation occurred after Facebook Inc. discovered a Russian campaign on its network earlier this year dubbed “Secondary Infektion.” More recent accounts on Reddit bear similarities to that campaign, “causing us to believe that this was indeed tied to the original group,” the firm said.

“Suspect accounts on Reddit were recently reported to us, along with indicators from law enforcement, and we were able to confirm that they did indeed show a pattern of coordination,” Reddit said. The banned accounts will be preserved for a time so that they can be scrutinized by researchers and the public.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov has said there are no grounds for the accusations against Russia.

The Reddit accounts were removed after social media research firm Graphika Inc. published a blog on Dec. 2 saying that hundred of pages of leaked documents on trade between the U.S. and U.K. were amplified online in a manner “closely” resembling tactics used in the Secondary Infektion campaign.

The U.K. operation appeared to start in October when “a German-language persona” that called itself Max Ostermann posted information about the leaked trade documents to three websites including German subreddit r/de, as well as an Austrian local-news blog and a Berlin-based platform, according to Graphika.

The documents were then amplified using tactics previously seen in Secondary Infektion. These tactics included the use of “burner accounts” -- which post once before apparently being abandoned -- as well use of a “conspiracy site” called beforeitsnews.com, the Graphika report said.

“Even before the Reddit post, the big question was how the unredacted U.K. documents ended up online,” said Ben Nimmo, director of investigations at Graphika. “That question just got bigger.”

--With assistance from Tim Ross.

So we're back to trying to NO U the document out of the discussion rather than explaining how its content is false?

[The Blaatschapen]

I’ve got my PR House of Commons calculator all set up. The day after the results are posted you’ll see my post about how the election would have looked using a Party list PR system, both national and regional district systems will be shown.

And yes this will be a semi-regular thing from me

" how the election would have looked using a Party list PR system"

Not entirely, because the system itself influences the individual votes of people. A lot. There's quite a few strategic voters because of the system.

[Gormwood]

Hillary Clinton might want to be careful what she wishes for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6nSo4W-C8s

So we're back to trying to NO U the document out of the discussion rather than explaining how its content is false?

Be careful what who wishes for?

[Vassenor]

Besides, this kind of smells like a double-bluff.

[Fartsniffage]

Besides, this kind of smells like a double-bluff.

What does?

[Salandriagado]

I’ve got my PR House of Commons calculator all set up. The day after the results are posted you’ll see my post about how the election would have looked using a Party list PR system, both national and regional district systems will be shown.

And yes this will be a semi-regular thing from me

Someone already did it for 2017, using a compromise multimember-district based system. More or less what you'd expect, but fairly interesting none the less.

[Outer Sparta]

I’ve got my PR House of Commons calculator all set up. The day after the results are posted you’ll see my post about how the election would have looked using a Party list PR system, both national and regional district systems will be shown.

And yes this will be a semi-regular thing from me

" how the election would have looked using a Party list PR system"

Not entirely, because the system itself influences the individual votes of people. A lot. There's quite a few strategic voters because of the system.

It would be interesting how one would calculate the tactical voters and seeing how they change in a proportional system. Once the results are out, we would know the extent of the tactical votes.

[Puertollano]

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 42% (=)
LAB: 36% (+4)
LDM: 11% (-1)
BXP: 4% (+1)
GRN: 2% (=)

Via
SavantaComRes
2-5 Dec.
Changes w/ 2-3 Dec.

[Outer Sparta]

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 42% (=)
LAB: 36% (+4)
LDM: 11% (-1)
BXP: 4% (+1)
GRN: 2% (=)

Via
SavantaComRes
2-5 Dec.
Changes w/ 2-3 Dec.

If this is indicative of a trend, that means the Tories have peaked with their support while Labour continues to consolidate their voter base. Of course, polls don't vote and should be taken with a grain of salt. The only results that matter is the general election results, which are influenced by people voting.