Is the United States an empire?

[Sundiata]

No but it should be.

Yes, may the gospel spread with ease.

[Senkaku]

oh joy

Anyways, if you can demonstrate that Britain in fact did not rule Northern Nigeria, I will be impressed (as will the people of Nigeria, I think )

I like you too much to subject you to pages of difficulties so soon after my return. I'll goose you later :^)

[Bear Stearns]

Let's say that the United States did not discriminate between its subjects based on geography... so there's one kind of citizenship and the Guamese (!?), Puerto Ricans, Alaskans, Hawaiians and continental Americans all have it. In that case, the US would not be an empire. However, this is not the case. Therefore, the asymmetry Empire requires exists and therefore the US is an empire,

The actual 50 states themselves only enjoy de jure political equality anyways. The US is ruled by its metropole, which is the population concentration from Boston to Washington DC, with outposts in places like Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

Also, the US practices internal colonization with the various disparate nations that inhabit it.

[Macau]

Superpower is a better label, if we really want to assign labels.

A nation can't be both?

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Perhaps it would be most effective of everyone could agree on a singular definition of empire. How about buy looking at what we know are empires and seeing what makes them so. Like England.




Edit. Just realized that the conversation is a lot different from the first page

I'm of the belief that the United States is an empire in the sense that it has scientific, cultural, economic, and military dominion over most of the world.

It should also maintain this advantageous position to rectify the world order.

Wouldn’t superpower better fit that description? I isint empire reserved more based on a relative “vastness” mostly in the scence of territory (that isint regarded as core), and “riches” and associated with ancient times and mass delegation of power ? Like babylon, Rome, or Mali ?

[Sapporo Hyperspace Riftgate Laboratory]

It is a superpower, but to call it an empire is wrong. Sure, you could call the USSR an Empire with their Warsaw Pact puppets, but NATO members are full-fledged sovereign nations, not satellites.

[Rojava Free State]

Well we are everywhere

The real question is should we be an empire? I personally think we should not

[Rojava Free State]

It is a superpower, but to call it an empire is wrong. Sure, you could call the USSR an Empire with their Warsaw Pact puppets, but NATO members are full-fledged sovereign nations, not satellites.

We have guam, Puerto rico, the virgin islands and a few other Pacific islands, and I would say Iraq and Afghanistan under us were anything but sovereign as well

[Rojava Free State]

Perhaps it would be most effective of everyone could agree on a singular definition of empire. How about buy looking at what we know are empires and seeing what makes them so. Like England.




Edit. Just realized that the conversation is a lot different from the first page

I'm of the belief that the United States is an empire in the sense that it has scientific, cultural, economic, and military dominion over most of the world.

It should also maintain this advantageous position to rectify the world order.

America has created so much chaos and death in the last seventy years. The only world order under American war hawks is disorder

[Page]

There are never going to again be empires resembling the Romans, the Persians, the British. American hegemony doesn't concern itself with raising the stars and stripes over foreign soil.

America is the successor to the empires of the past in the same way corporations are the successor to land-owning nobility.

[Ayissor]

It is a superpower, but to call it an empire is wrong. Sure, you could call the USSR an Empire with their Warsaw Pact puppets, but NATO members are full-fledged sovereign nations, not satellites.

Except for South American dictatorships that have been sponsored, funded and overseen by the U.S in the name of containing the other empire.
weird how you neglect that, also, I would not call European NATO members at the time "Sovereign", they weren't really, they were initially very reliant on the U.S for financial aid and military protection, especially Germany.

[Nea Byzantia]

Considering the most basic definition of an Empire is a multiethnic groups of states or countries under a single authority, yes.

Same thing goes for most of the countries in The New World.

Russia, China, Indonesia, India, and Philippines are all empires tbf

Yes, and so is the United States of America. Nothing wrong with admitting that.

[Celritannia]

Yes. I say any imperialist nation is a Empire if large and diverse enough.

But imperialism itself is not empire. The US may be imperialist, but that doesn't mean it's an empire; like how all oranges are fruit but not all fruit are oranges, empire is imperialist, but imperialism isn't empire. If imperialism alone is empire, then the USSR was an empire, the PRC is an empire, Indonesia was an empire after it annexed East Timor, and the British Empire still exists.

No it doesn't.
The 1997 hand over of Hong Kong was the final end to the British Empire.

[Nea Byzantia]

Let's say that the United States did not discriminate between its subjects based on geography... so there's one kind of citizenship and the Guamese (!?), Puerto Ricans, Alaskans, Hawaiians and continental Americans all have it. In that case, the US would not be an empire. However, this is not the case. Therefore, the asymmetry Empire requires exists and therefore the US is an empire,

The actual 50 states themselves only enjoy de jure political equality anyways. The US is ruled by its metropole, which is the population concentration from Boston to Washington DC, with outposts in places like Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

Also, the US practices internal colonization with the various disparate nations that inhabit it.

Which proves America is an Empire.

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

The matter at hand is simple: many people have claimed that the United States of America is an empire, and many have not.

The word "empire" has many definitions, however I feel like Brain4Breakfast's in "What the Gulf? - Nation Building" is the best;

An empire is a group of distinct people, called nations, all ruled over by one, in an asymmetric relationship.

However, there are other definitions of empire, which are different from B4B's definition in other dictionaries and by other creators, notably Wikipedia's who says nothing about nations but about ethnic groups:

An empire is a multi-ethnic or multinational state with political and/or military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture.

With these different definitions of empires and definitions of empire itself, this begs the eternal question: is the United States of America an empire?

Personally, I don't think the US is an empire. It may be imperialist, but that doesn't make it an empire; an empire needs a figurehead or a powerful, sovereign leader (especially a monarch) that can be seen as an embodiment of the state in my opinion. The US President doesn't fit that role; he's certainly not as powerful as an emperor and he's not a figurehead like Hitler or Caesar.

What are your opinions, NSG?

Yes, it is, by both of those definitions. Ask Puerto Rico, Guam, and American Samoa. As an edited thought, you might also ask the nations of the various designated Reservations. An empire does not need to be autocratic, ask the French.

[Nea Byzantia]

But imperialism itself is not empire. The US may be imperialist, but that doesn't mean it's an empire; like how all oranges are fruit but not all fruit are oranges, empire is imperialist, but imperialism isn't empire. If imperialism alone is empire, then the USSR was an empire, the PRC is an empire, Indonesia was an empire after it annexed East Timor, and the British Empire still exists.

No it doesn't.
The 1997 hand over of Hong Kong was the final end to the British Empire.

No it wasn't. The United Kingdom still rules Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland from London. So the Empire is not quite dead, just yet. Definitely weakened...Definitely in mortal decline...but not dead. Not yet.

[Celritannia]

Yes, the United States is an empire that has a moral obligation to expand its influence globally.

The United States should promote a unipolar world order where it alone holds cultural, diplomatic, militaristic, and economic hegemony over all countries. The ideal: one currency, one government, one planet. Therefore, it is not just an obligation that we surpass China and Russia, but a definitive ethic.

I am in favor of "nation-building."

I hate the Wilson Doctrine.

[Celritannia]

That does not sound like a good idea.

Democracy is important. So is local representation.

No, it's a good idea.

France and Norway aren't federations, they're unitary states. They're also democracies.

The U.S should follow suit.

Germany is a Federation and is democratic, as is Belgium, Canada, Australia, Austria, Switzerland (although more of a Confederation).

[Celritannia]

No it doesn't.
The 1997 hand over of Hong Kong was the final end to the British Empire.

No it wasn't. The United Kingdom still rules Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland from London. So the Empire is not quite dead, just yet. Definitely weakened...Definitely in mortal decline...but not dead. Not yet.

The United Kingdom is made up of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, the full title of it being The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So no. Try again.

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

No it wasn't. The United Kingdom still rules Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland from London. So the Empire is not quite dead, just yet. Definitely weakened...Definitely in mortal decline...but not dead. Not yet.

The United Kingdom is made up of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, the full title of it being The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So no. Try again.

The British Overseas Territories are the last remnant of the British Empire that still exists. Some of them remain quite different demographically than any of the United Kingdom, and are ruled directly by the United Kingdom with varying degrees of local self-government. They include Anguilla, Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, the Falklands, Montserrat, and the Pitcairn Islands, among a total of fourteen. So yes, the British Empire still exists, albeit in a much reduced state from its previous territory.

[The Solar Accords]

The US, put simply, isn't an empire, at least, not in the traditional sense and definition of the word. It is more considerably a 'Global Hegemon', if one considers the military spending and rate of expansion of the US Armed Forces. It projects power globally, but holds no territory that was gained via imperialistic means (recently anyway, Puerto Rico and Guam were seized by the US after the Spanish-American War). Also, if one takes a look at just how widespread US Armed Forces bases are, one can considerably affirm the previous point, however it should be noted that most, if not all, were either established or set up for reasons besides providing residence for the Armed Forces of the US.

If anyone has any further info on my little spiel, or has something to counter/correct anything I have said, you are welcome to quote me, and edit it to remove the typo/incorrect information.

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

The US, put simply, isn't an empire, at least, not in the traditional sense and definition of the word. It is more considerably a 'Global Hegemon', if one considers the military spending and rate of expansion of the US Armed Forces. It projects power globally, but holds no territory that was gained via imperialistic means (recently anyway, Puerto Rico and Guam were seized by the US after the Spanish-American War). Also, if one takes a look at just how widespread US Armed Forces bases are, one can considerably affirm the previous point, however it should be noted that most, if not all, were either established or set up for reasons besides providing residence for the Armed Forces of the US.

If anyone has any further info on my little spiel, or has something to counter/correct anything I have said, you are welcome to quote me, and edit it to remove the typo/incorrect information.

I think that handwaving the overseas territories as having not happened recently is a pretty big ask. These are still territories ruled over in an asymmetric relationship to the imperial center, with different rights and responsibilities than most Americans. The Constitution only partly applies to them. Additionally the tribal sovereignty of the recognized Native American nations have the status of "dependent sovereign nation" under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Congress, making them (in the most generous terms) literally imperialized nations.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Yes.

[The Solar Accords]

The US, put simply, isn't an empire, at least, not in the traditional sense and definition of the word. It is more considerably a 'Global Hegemon', if one considers the military spending and rate of expansion of the US Armed Forces. It projects power globally, but holds no territory that was gained via imperialistic means (recently anyway, Puerto Rico and Guam were seized by the US after the Spanish-American War). Also, if one takes a look at just how widespread US Armed Forces bases are, one can considerably affirm the previous point, however it should be noted that most, if not all, were either established or set up for reasons besides providing residence for the Armed Forces of the US.

If anyone has any further info on my little spiel, or has something to counter/correct anything I have said, you are welcome to quote me, and edit it to remove the typo/incorrect information.

I think that handwaving the overseas territories as having not happened recently is a pretty big ask. These are still territories ruled over in an asymmetric relationship to the imperial center, with different rights and responsibilities than most Americans. The Constitution only partly applies to them. Additionally the tribal sovereignty of the recognized Native American nations have the status of "dependent sovereign nation" under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Congress, making them (in the most generous terms) literally imperialized nations.

That is quite true, and I see now that I was, indeed, incorrect. Going back and viewing relevant and unbiased articles and documents on the history of the US, and by remembering my sophomore World History class, it is indeed fact that, yes, the US can be classed as an empire, due to the economic, territorial, and political manipulation, exploitation, invasion, and annexation of certain nations, peoples, or indigenous entities it has engaged in, and still practices to this day, even to its own citizens. It can be seen as either a successor to the British Empire (seeing as the US is, in technical terms, of British foundation, if you base the claim on the 13 colonies.), or as a new, potentially dangerous, nation that seeks to inject everything with its corrupted, decadent style of capitalism, that strays quite far from normal capitalism.

[Celritannia]

The United Kingdom is made up of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, the full title of it being The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So no. Try again.

The British Overseas Territories are the last remnant of the British Empire that still exists. Some of them remain quite different demographically than any of the United Kingdom, and are ruled directly by the United Kingdom with varying degrees of local self-government. They include Anguilla, Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, the Falklands, Montserrat, and the Pitcairn Islands, among a total of fourteen. So yes, the British Empire still exists, albeit in a much reduced state from its previous territory.

That's not technically true.
The UK Government neither owns them, not administers them. They have authority of Defence and Foreign relations, but are not held against their will by the UK government.
The Falklands and Gibraltar for example, are made of of 100% British citizens from the UK, and therefore cannot really be considered Imperial Territory.