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MAGAThread XVII: All Things NOT Impeachment

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which would be your favored candidate for the 2020 Republican Party presidential nomination?

Donald Trump
47
27%
Rocky De La Fuente
5
3%
Joe Walsh
4
2%
Bill Weld
23
13%
Bob Ely
0
No votes
Zoltan Istvan
6
3%
None of the above/other
30
17%
David Hasselhoff
58
34%
 
Total votes : 173

User avatar
Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10032
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Please tell me your not serious.


Nixon had powerful enemies in the FBI and CIA.

The Democrats clearly brainwashed Nixon into putting together The Plumbers.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:15 pm

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So any president who commits any crime ought to be removed from office?

Yes.


Aww yeah, no more presidents.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35431
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:15 pm

Telconi wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Impeachment. If the Senate thinks crimes were committed, they should impeach the president. They swore an oath to that effect.


So any president who commits any crime ought to be removed from office?

Yes since we cite a stupid memo that a sitting President can't be indicted. The President is not above the law.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:16 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Telconi wrote:
And what's the legal recourse for these things?


Prosecution, but before that to keep him from doing more of it, impeachment.


Got some sauce on that?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7067
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:16 pm

Tobleste wrote:
Fahran wrote:I don't think you're too familiar with the internal politics of the GOP. Beyond that, calling the voters sheep is still a lazy cop-out that absolves candidates who lost to Trump of all responsibility for not engaging voters.


But why did trump engage them while the others didn't? The answer to that question involves saying worse things about Republican voters than sheep.


Because Trump gave them alternative beyond a Bush-tier foreign policy and Romney-tier economic policy. He failed on the latter and is currently failing on the former. There has been a strong shift in the GOP base. They're aren't the hypercapitalist Randian imperialists anymore, but the Republican leadership still is.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1976
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:16 pm

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So any president who commits any crime ought to be removed from office?

Yes.


I would qualify that. Any crime committed in office (using powers of the office, using confidential knowledge of office etc) but not "any crime".

If the President beats his wife, prosecution would be appropriate. Not impeachment.
Also, AiliAiliA.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:16 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So any president who commits any crime ought to be removed from office?

Yes since we cite a stupid memo that a sitting President can't be indicted. The President is not above the law.


He's above those laws, clearly.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 18158
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:17 pm

Telconi wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Yes.


Aww yeah, no more presidents.

Sure, if they cannot do their job without committing crimes...

I, for one, have never committed a crime. I’m sure the US president can go four years without committing one.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:18 pm

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Aww yeah, no more presidents.

Sure, if they cannot do their job without committing crimes...

I, for one, have never committed a crime. I’m sure the US president can go four years without committing one.


(X)
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35431
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:18 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Yes.


I would qualify that. Any crime committed in office (using powers of the office, using confidential knowledge of office etc) but not "any crime".

If the President beats his wife, prosecution would be appropriate. Not impeachment.

But sitting Presidents can't be indicted. So if Trump went crazy on Secret Service agents or staff and started attacking and threatening them you couldn't indict him as far as I understand it.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1976
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:19 pm

Telconi wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Prosecution, but before that to keep him from doing more of it, impeachment.


Got some sauce on that?


You're asking me for a sauce … that prosecution is the appropriate response to crime.

What do you want from me, the whole criminal code of the federal government and each of the states? Sheesh.
Also, AiliAiliA.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 18158
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:19 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Yes.


I would qualify that. Any crime committed in office (using powers of the office, using confidential knowledge of office etc) but not "any crime".

If the President beats his wife, prosecution would be appropriate. Not impeachment.

No, don’t qualify. Any crime. If the president beats his wife, he needs to go. He can come back to politics after he served his sentence.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:20 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Got some sauce on that?


You're asking me for a sauce … that prosecution is the appropriate response to crime.

What do you want from me, the whole criminal code of the federal government and each of the states? Sheesh.


Specifically that impeachment is, and the clauses outlining the pu punishments for those two crimes would suffice, specifically if they say the word "impeachment".
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1976
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:20 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
I would qualify that. Any crime committed in office (using powers of the office, using confidential knowledge of office etc) but not "any crime".

If the President beats his wife, prosecution would be appropriate. Not impeachment.

But sitting Presidents can't be indicted. So if Trump went crazy on Secret Service agents or staff and started attacking and threatening them you couldn't indict him as far as I understand it.


An opinion issued to that effect by the DoJ.

Not a ruling of any court.
Also, AiliAiliA.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35431
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:21 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
San Lumen wrote:But sitting Presidents can't be indicted. So if Trump went crazy on Secret Service agents or staff and started attacking and threatening them you couldn't indict him as far as I understand it.


An opinion issued to that effect by the DoJ.

Not a ruling of any court.

And they adhere to it as if it is.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:22 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
An opinion issued to that effect by the DoJ.

Not a ruling of any court.

And they adhere to it as if it is.


People generally adhere to their own opinions.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 18158
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:22 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
San Lumen wrote:But sitting Presidents can't be indicted. So if Trump went crazy on Secret Service agents or staff and started attacking and threatening them you couldn't indict him as far as I understand it.


An opinion issued to that effect by the DoJ.

Not a ruling of any court.

An opinion based on what the Courts would be most likely to decide.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 18158
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:23 pm

Telconi wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Sure, if they cannot do their job without committing crimes...

I, for one, have never committed a crime. I’m sure the US president can go four years without committing one.


(X)

Hahahaha

Gonna provide anything more substantive than that?
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1976
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:24 pm

Telconi wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
You're asking me for a sauce … that prosecution is the appropriate response to crime.

What do you want from me, the whole criminal code of the federal government and each of the states? Sheesh.


Specifically that impeachment is, and the clauses outlining the pu punishments for those two crimes would suffice, specifically if they say the word "impeachment".


Two crimes are mentioned as ground for impeachment.

The impeachment clause says the President SHALL be removed on impeachment and conviction.

But it does not say the President SHALL be impeached for the commission of a crime (presumably proven some other way) or the other things.

If it did say that, I think I'd agree that impeachment replaces regular prosecution, and maybe even grants immunity for "lesser" crimes.
Also, AiliAiliA.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:24 pm

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Telconi wrote:
(X)

Hahahaha

Gonna provide anything more substantive than that?


Nope, don't need to.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:25 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Specifically that impeachment is, and the clauses outlining the pu punishments for those two crimes would suffice, specifically if they say the word "impeachment".


Two crimes are mentioned as ground for impeachment.

The impeachment clause says the President SHALL be removed on impeachment and conviction.

But it does not say the President SHALL be impeached for the commission of a crime (presumably proven some other way) or the other things.

If it did say that, I think I'd agree that impeachment replaces regular prosecution, and maybe even grants immunity for "lesser" crimes.


He shall be removed upon impeachment and conviction, but he hasn't been convicted.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1976
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:27 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
An opinion issued to that effect by the DoJ.

Not a ruling of any court.

And they adhere to it as if it is.


Yet I heard that Clinton could have been convicted of perjury, at least after leaving office.

Not double jeopardy somehow, I'll have to look it up.
Also, AiliAiliA.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35431
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:28 pm

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
An opinion issued to that effect by the DoJ.

Not a ruling of any court.

An opinion based on what the Courts would be most likely to decide.

Says who?

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 18158
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:28 pm

Telconi wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Hahahaha

Gonna provide anything more substantive than that?


Nope, don't need to.

Oh, you do, because I am dumb and don’t understand what you are claiming. Please expound.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30857
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:28 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
San Lumen wrote:And they adhere to it as if it is.


Yet I heard that Clinton could have been convicted of perjury, at least after leaving office.

Not double jeopardy somehow, I'll have to look it up.


Generally we don't arrest and prosecute presidents for things they do while in office.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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