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MAGAThread XVII: All Things NOT Impeachment

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which would be your favored candidate for the 2020 Republican Party presidential nomination?

Donald Trump
47
27%
Rocky De La Fuente
5
3%
Joe Walsh
4
2%
Bill Weld
23
13%
Bob Ely
0
No votes
Zoltan Istvan
6
3%
None of the above/other
30
17%
David Hasselhoff
58
34%
 
Total votes : 173

User avatar
Fahran
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8314
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:01 pm

San Lumen wrote:Whatever Trump says they believe and that's why the vast majority of Republicans wont convict or speak out against him. All he has to do is endorse they primary challenger and they will lose.

They won't convict him because the public perception of impeachment is suffering in swing states and among their voter base, and voting for it would dramatically harm their reelection prospects, their party, and long-term public faith in American political institutions like Congress and the Presidency. And several Trump supported primary challengers have lost either to fellow Republicans or to Democrats. GOP voters do like Trump overall and it's worth understanding why.
Hi. I'm Fahran. I'm aggressively Jewish and rep that premed srat life.
Diopolis wrote:*mutters to self* hope not hoppe. Hope not hoppe.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30795
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:01 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Fahran wrote:I don't think you're too familiar with the internal politics of the GOP. Beyond that, calling the voters sheep is still a lazy cop-out that absolves candidates who lost to Trump of all responsibility for not engaging voters.

Whatever Trump says they believe and that's why the vast majority of Republicans wont convict or speak out against him. All he has to do is endorse they primary challenger and they will lose.


Thank you for proving her point.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35237
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:02 pm

Fahran wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Whatever Trump says they believe and that's why the vast majority of Republicans wont convict or speak out against him. All he has to do is endorse they primary challenger and they will lose.

They won't convict him because the public perception of impeachment is suffering in swing states and among their voter base, and voting for it would dramatically harm their reelection prospects, their party, and long-term public faith in American political institutions like Congress and the Presidency. And several Trump supported primary challengers have lost either to fellow Republicans or to Democrats. GOP voters do like Trump overall and it's worth understanding why.

Yeah who cares about the rule of law? Nixon wouldn't have resigned or been convicted if he were President today.
Last edited by San Lumen on Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30795
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:03 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Fahran wrote:They won't convict him because the public perception of impeachment is suffering in swing states and among their voter base, and voting for it would dramatically harm their reelection prospects, their party, and long-term public faith in American political institutions like Congress and the Presidency. And several Trump supported primary challengers have lost either to fellow Republicans or to Democrats. GOP voters do like Trump overall and it's worth understanding why.

Yeah who cares about the rule of law?


What rule of law? Impeachment?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Fahran
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8314
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:04 pm

San Lumen wrote:Yeah who cares about the rule of law?

There's serious questions about whether the case for impeachment is iron-clad. A lot of evidence seems to be circumstantial but that's an argument for another thread, no?
Hi. I'm Fahran. I'm aggressively Jewish and rep that premed srat life.
Diopolis wrote:*mutters to self* hope not hoppe. Hope not hoppe.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6998
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:05 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Fahran wrote:They won't convict him because the public perception of impeachment is suffering in swing states and among their voter base, and voting for it would dramatically harm their reelection prospects, their party, and long-term public faith in American political institutions like Congress and the Presidency. And several Trump supported primary challengers have lost either to fellow Republicans or to Democrats. GOP voters do like Trump overall and it's worth understanding why.

Yeah who cares about the rule of law? Nixon wouldn't have resigned or been convicted if he were President today.


There is evidence to suggest that Watergate was very much a political coup as well.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35237
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:05 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yeah who cares about the rule of law? Nixon wouldn't have resigned or been convicted if he were President today.


There is evidence to suggest that Watergate was very much a political coup as well.

Please tell me your not serious.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1802
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:07 pm

Telconi wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
If it's Trump's intention to withdraw entirely from Iraq, he'd better not just do it. With the assassination he seems to have found a way to provoke the Iraqis into ordering the US out.

Who'd have thought, Iraq standing up for Iran?

Mind you it's not done yet, and the Iraqi parliament wasn't very forceful in their demand. What's needed now is to "accidentally" bomb an Iraqi target.
(Or the threatened "cultural sites" ie Shia monuments)


While the Baathists certainly were anti-Iran, the current Iraqi government isn't. They're very much on Iran's side of the playing field.


So it seems. Nice work George Bush.
I guess if the US/Iran thing escalates the Iraqis will make the US leave.
Also, AiliAiliA.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30795
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:08 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
There is evidence to suggest that Watergate was very much a political coup as well.

Please tell me your not serious.


We seriously should have kept Nixon around, at least he had some decent environmental policies.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35237
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:08 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Telconi wrote:
While the Baathists certainly were anti-Iran, the current Iraqi government isn't. They're very much on Iran's side of the playing field.


So it seems. Nice work George Bush.
I guess if the US/Iran thing escalates the Iraqis will make the US leave.

And Trump is threaten sanctions on Iraq and cripple them economically if they do so. That's someone whose clearly thinking rationally.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30795
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:09 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
So it seems. Nice work George Bush.
I guess if the US/Iran thing escalates the Iraqis will make the US leave.

And Trump is threaten sanctions on Iraq and cripple them economically if they do so. That's someone whose clearly thinking rationally.


Yes, it is...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 18119
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:09 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yeah who cares about the rule of law?


What rule of law? Impeachment?

Bribery, for a start. Obstruction of justice, too.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6998
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:10 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
There is evidence to suggest that Watergate was very much a political coup as well.

Please tell me your not serious.


Nixon had powerful enemies in the FBI and CIA.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35237
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:10 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:And Trump is threaten sanctions on Iraq and cripple them economically if they do so. That's someone whose clearly thinking rationally.


Yes, it is...

How? It would monumentally stupid. Iraq is not our enemy.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30795
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:10 pm

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Telconi wrote:
What rule of law? Impeachment?

Bribery, for a start. Obstruction of justice, too.


And what's the legal recourse for these things?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35237
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:11 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Please tell me your not serious.


Nixon had powerful enemies in the FBI and CIA.

Yeah the deep state was out to get him. its not like be broke the law or anything.

User avatar
Gormwood
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9885
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:12 pm

Tobleste wrote:
Fahran wrote:I don't think you're too familiar with the internal politics of the GOP. Beyond that, calling the voters sheep is still a lazy cop-out that absolves candidates who lost to Trump of all responsibility for not engaging voters.


But why did trump engage them while the others didn't? The answer to that question involves saying worse things about Republican voters than sheep.

Trump is a con artist. He probably saw them as easy marks.
Last edited by Gormwood on Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30795
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Yes, it is...

How? It would monumentally stupid. Iraq is not our enemy.


Given how quickly Iraq is devolving into an Iranian puppet state, they sure as shit are.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1802
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Fahran wrote:They won't convict him because the public perception of impeachment is suffering in swing states and among their voter base, and voting for it would dramatically harm their reelection prospects, their party, and long-term public faith in American political institutions like Congress and the Presidency. And several Trump supported primary challengers have lost either to fellow Republicans or to Democrats. GOP voters do like Trump overall and it's worth understanding why.

Yeah who cares about the rule of law? Nixon wouldn't have resigned or been convicted if he were President today.


Trump won't resign, even if McConnell went to him and said "the numbers are against you" … which they aren't … Trump would rather go down a martyr than think of political appearances and resign.

That chutzpah actually protects him. Senators expect him to survive so they fear retribution if they vote to convict.
Also, AiliAiliA.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 18119
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:13 pm

Telconi wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Bribery, for a start. Obstruction of justice, too.


And what's the legal recourse for these things?

Impeachment. If the Senate thinks crimes were committed, they should impeach the president. They swore an oath to that effect.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

User avatar
Gormwood
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9885
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:13 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Tobleste wrote:
But why did trump engage them while the others didn't? The answer to that question involves saying worse things about Republican voters than sheep.


The perception that the Democrats actually hate people like them did it more than anything. It's one thing if your opponent just disagrees with you. It's another if your opponent hates you and thinks you're evil.

The Republicans get away with labeling the other side as THE ENEMY.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35237
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:13 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yeah who cares about the rule of law? Nixon wouldn't have resigned or been convicted if he were President today.


Trump won't resign, even if McConnell went to him and said "the numbers are against you" … which they aren't … Trump would rather go down a martyr than think of political appearances and resign.

That chutzpah actually protects him. Senators expect him to survive so they fear retribution if they vote to convict.

It would be doing their job to vote to convict. If their base doesnt like it tough. They should stab them in the back.
Last edited by San Lumen on Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30795
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Telconi wrote:
And what's the legal recourse for these things?

Impeachment. If the Senate thinks crimes were committed, they should impeach the president. They swore an oath to that effect.


So any president who commits any crime ought to be removed from office?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 18119
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm

Telconi wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Impeachment. If the Senate thinks crimes were committed, they should impeach the president. They swore an oath to that effect.


So any president who commits any crime ought to be removed from office?

Yes.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1802
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm

Telconi wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Bribery, for a start. Obstruction of justice, too.


And what's the legal recourse for these things?


Prosecution, but before that to keep him from doing more of it, impeachment.
Also, AiliAiliA.
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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