UK teen convicted of sex crime for touching classmate on arm

[Fahran]

I hope skin hunger is the worst phrase I learn today.

It's one of the terms used to describe touch deprivation. Human beings need touch to remain mentally and physically healthy.

It doesn't really excuse putting your hand on a random person's waist. I do get that it's a social issue, but we should probably still uphold the law here.

[Fahran]

I mean the evidence given so far speaks to it. This is not the way healthy minded people act.

Neither is murdering hitchhikers but it doesn't necessarily excuse you from punishment in a court of law.

[Galloism]

I mean the evidence given so far speaks to it. This is not the way healthy minded people act.

Neither is murdering hitchhikers but it doesn't necessarily excuse you from punishment in a court of law.

I mean, it kinda depends what gender you are and how sick you are in the head (unironically on both counts), but that being said, even in those cases mental health care would be the prescription of the day (and maybe incarceration in a mental institution).

[Fahran]

Neither is murdering hitchhikers but it doesn't necessarily excuse you from punishment in a court of law.

I mean, it kinda depends what gender you are and how sick you are in the head (unironically on both counts), but that being said, even in those cases mental health care would be the prescription of the day (and maybe incarceration in a mental institution).

Then justice becomes merely an extension of healthcare. I do believe the onus is on the accused to demonstrate mitigating factors after events have been more or less established. In the absence of such evidence, the court ought to move ahead. Really, I don't think there's anyway this boy comes off without some penalty and, all things considered, the one he got is relatively mild.

[Galloism]

I mean, it kinda depends what gender you are and how sick you are in the head (unironically on both counts), but that being said, even in those cases mental health care would be the prescription of the day (and maybe incarceration in a mental institution).

Then justice becomes merely an extension of healthcare. I do believe the onus is on the accused to demonstrate mitigating factors after events have been more or less established. In the absence of such evidence, the court ought to move ahead. Really, I don't think there's anyway this boy comes off without some penalty and, all things considered, the one he got is relatively mild.

Eh, given the explanation of how the sex offender registry works in the UK (that it's not publicly available, etc, unlike our monstrosity here in the states), presuming that's true I guess it is basically ok. I still don't see the sexual aspect to this, but again, the court may have information thus far not presented in this thread.

[Des-Bal]

It's actually a real term.

I know, there's always time for a surprise upset but it's still the worst phrase I've learned today.

I mean the evidence given so far speaks to it. This is not the way healthy minded people act.

Sounds like committing sexual assault is evidence you lacked the capacity to commit sexual assault.

[Lanoraie II]

I have seen no suggestion of mental illness or disability I've seen him say he's socially awkward and I've seen spectators extrapolate that into crippling autism.

And just about every person with autistic spectrum disorders I've worked with has still understood that this sort of behaviour is not OK.

It's into a case of #notyourshield.

Convenient how you didn't reply to me, an actually autistic person.

I have known several autistic and socially awkward people who would do these kinds of things. My brother, when he was younger and shy, would constantly try to get the attention of someone and then freeze up once he did. What exactly is your job, anyway? If you're not a therapist, chances are you aren't meeting many significantly autistic-yet-high-functioning people, because most autistic people are actually very good at masking their autism, especially females.

So yes, I am #notyourshield and neither is anyone you worked with for your justification of not having any empathy for this young boy being charged with a sex crime for being socially blind. You can keep your ableism to yourself.

[Galloism]

It's actually a real term.

I know, there's always time for a surprise upset but it's still the worst phrase I've learned today.

I mean the evidence given so far speaks to it. This is not the way healthy minded people act.

Sounds like committing sexual assault is evidence you lacked the capacity to commit sexual assault.

Sexual assault can be rational if always deplorable. But if a guy yells "I'm a piano, and pianos rob banks!" right before robbing the bank, and makes piano noises the whole time he's doing it, it's pretty good evidence of some sort of mental instability.

[Des-Bal]

Sexual assault can be rational if always deplorable. But if a guy yells "I'm a piano, and pianos rob banks!" right before robbing the bank, and makes piano noises the whole time he's doing it, it's pretty good evidence of some sort of mental instability.

In that scenario the person specifically identified what they were doing and spelled out the specific crime they were committing. Given that the purpose of bringing up mental instability is to suggest that they did not know what they were doing or did not know right from wrong that statement is clear evidence that they weren't mentally ill in any way that mattered.

He knew he touched and the text's suggest he knew it was not okay to do that .

Convenient how you didn't reply to me, an actually autistic person.

I have known several autistic and socially awkward people who would do these kinds of things. My brother, when he was younger and shy, would constantly try to get the attention of someone and then freeze up once he did. What exactly is your job, anyway? If you're not a therapist, chances are you aren't meeting many significantly autistic-yet-high-functioning people, because most autistic people are actually very good at masking their autism, especially females.

So yes, I am #notyourshield and neither is anyone you worked with for your justification of not having any empathy for this young boy being charged with a sex crime for being socially blind. You can keep your ableism to yourself.

There's no evidence he has autism and if anybody at all is so mentally ill that they can't stop themselves from committing assault the public needs to be protected from them.

[Lanoraie II]

Sexual assault can be rational if always deplorable. But if a guy yells "I'm a piano, and pianos rob banks!" right before robbing the bank, and makes piano noises the whole time he's doing it, it's pretty good evidence of some sort of mental instability.

In that scenario the person specifically identified what they were doing and spelled out the specific crime they were committing. Given that the purpose of bringing up mental instability is to suggest that they did not know what they were doing or did not know right from wrong that statement is clear evidence that they weren't mentally ill in any way that mattered.

He knew he touched and the text's suggest he knew it was not okay to do that .

Convenient how you didn't reply to me, an actually autistic person.

I have known several autistic and socially awkward people who would do these kinds of things. My brother, when he was younger and shy, would constantly try to get the attention of someone and then freeze up once he did. What exactly is your job, anyway? If you're not a therapist, chances are you aren't meeting many significantly autistic-yet-high-functioning people, because most autistic people are actually very good at masking their autism, especially females.

So yes, I am #notyourshield and neither is anyone you worked with for your justification of not having any empathy for this young boy being charged with a sex crime for being socially blind. You can keep your ableism to yourself.

There's no evidence he has autism and if anybody at all is so autistic they can't stop themselves from committing assault the public needs to be protected from them.

It's sad you think social awkwardness is a crime. He didn't do anything wrong, he just made a mistake. Think of how ridiculous it is to jail people and make them register as sex offenders foooor....touching someone's arm? Touching their side? It's stupid. Would you say it's also a crime for a blind man to touch a woman's boob, thinking it was a railing guard or something? Being autistic is literally being socially blind. That's exactly what it is, and I don't need non-autistic people try and tell ME what autism is like. Also,

if anybody at all is so autistic they can't stop themselves from committing assault the public needs to be protected from them.

This is so incredibly disgusting and dehumanizing. We're not fucking animals. Your sentence is extremely ableist. You're talking about a man who most likely does have autism or is socially awkward, who just didn't know what to do, or accidentally grabbed something he shouldn't have. But there is ZERO evidence it was sexual in nature. Zero. None. He should not have been trialed for a simple social faux pas, and the woman who reported him....I have a lot of words for her and the judge, none of them nice.

It is NOT assault to lightly grab someone's arm to get their attention, or their side, especially if the person doing it is socially blind.

[Mbelemilele]

In that scenario the person specifically identified what they were doing and spelled out the specific crime they were committing. Given that the purpose of bringing up mental instability is to suggest that they did not know what they were doing or did not know right from wrong that statement is clear evidence that they weren't mentally ill in any way that mattered.

He knew he touched and the text's suggest he knew it was not okay to do that .





There's no evidence he has autism and if anybody at all is so autistic they can't stop themselves from committing assault the public needs to be protected from them.

It's sad you think social awkwardness is a crime. He didn't do anything wrong, he just made a mistake. Think of how ridiculous it is to jail people and make them register as sex offenders foooor....touching someone's arm? Touching their side? It's stupid.

Yes, he made a mistake...by assaulting someone. He doesn't get a free pass? And he attempted to touch her breast, and touched her waist. I don't know why someone who is socially awkward has enough confidence to grab onto someones waist for several seconds and smirk at them...

[Galloism]

Sexual assault can be rational if always deplorable. But if a guy yells "I'm a piano, and pianos rob banks!" right before robbing the bank, and makes piano noises the whole time he's doing it, it's pretty good evidence of some sort of mental instability.

In that scenario the person specifically identified what they were doing and spelled out the specific crime they were committing. Given that the purpose of bringing up mental instability is to suggest that they did not know what they were doing or did not know right from wrong that statement is clear evidence that they weren't mentally ill in any way that mattered.

He knew he touched and the text's suggest he knew it was not okay to do that .

"Not ok" doesn't imply "sexual" though does it? There's still no evidence in this thread of sexual intent - the texts itself indicate some sort of crippling loneliness, which is a known precursor to a whole bunch of mental issues. The court may have other evidence, but there's nothing that implies "sex offender" in the actions thus far presented.

Some kind of mental problem maybe, and something that requires some type of intervention, but there seems to be no known sexual motive thus far presented.

Just that he's a man, and she's a woman, and he touched her against her will. That's all the evidence you require to believe it's sexual. It's certainly assault, but we're not seeing anything sexual about it thus far.

[Lanoraie II]

It's sad you think social awkwardness is a crime. He didn't do anything wrong, he just made a mistake. Think of how ridiculous it is to jail people and make them register as sex offenders foooor....touching someone's arm? Touching their side? It's stupid.

Yes, he made a mistake...by assaulting someone. He doesn't get a free pass? And he attempted to touch her breast, and touched her waist. I don't know why someone who is socially awkward has enough confidence to grab onto someones waist for several seconds and smirk at them...

He literally didn't assault someone though. Accidentally grabbing someone somewhere and then letting go when they tell him to is not assault. He didn't attempt to touch her boob. It doesn't state that anywhere except in the "victim"'s side. I don't think you understand how social awkwardness or autism works. Actually, you definitely don't, because you wouldn't say that otherwise. You don't understand. None of you do except those who lived it, and you're refusing to listen to the people who have.

Please, neurotypical people, stop telling us how you think these things work. Let me explain this for you in simple terms: Getting someone's attention takes a lot of anxiety and stress to overcome, and once you do, you can lose all of it in a second and freeze up. Your body is literally in fight or flight mode, and most often defaults to flight mode. Fight mode would actually have you start talking to them. As for why he grinned, I do it too. It's called a fear grin. Very very common. It means the person is terrified and doesn't want you to hurt them. And if you are socially blind, you don't recognize the more appropriate ways of getting someone's attention. You don't know that people don't like to be touched. You could've been told it, but in your head it may have only applied to a specific instance (i.e. a parent telling you people don't like it when you touch then with paint on your fingers--you don't assume that applies to touching them in general).

[Galloism]

Yes, he made a mistake...by assaulting someone. He doesn't get a free pass? And he attempted to touch her breast, and touched her waist. I don't know why someone who is socially awkward has enough confidence to grab onto someones waist for several seconds and smirk at them...

He literally didn't assault someone though. Accidentally grabbing someone somewhere and then letting go when they tell him to is not assault. He didn't attempt to touch her boob. It doesn't state that anywhere except in the "victim"'s side. I don't think you understand how social awkwardness or autism works. Actually, you definitely don't, because you wouldn't say that otherwise. You don't understand. None of you do except those who lived it, and you're refusing to listen to the people who have.

He definitely assaulted her, though. Because assault includes touching against a person's will.

If I tap you on the shoulder to get your attention, and you say "don't touch me", and I tap you on the shoulder again, that's assault.

[Des-Bal]

It's sad you think social awkwardness is a crime. He didn't do anything wrong, he just made a mistake. Think of how ridiculous it is to jail people and make them register as sex offenders foooor....touching someone's arm? Touching their side? It's stupid.

He committed assault, that happened 100% without question. If he had a sexual motive it was sexual assault but if we look just at the facts he admitted to he committed two assaults. If you make the mistake of setting an ambush to touch a stranger then do it again after they run into the street to get away from you then the criminal justice system has to deal with you. You don't get to do crimes, I'm sorry if you think that's ableist but people who can't abide by the laws of society do not belong in society one way or another.

[Lanoraie II]

It's sad you think social awkwardness is a crime. He didn't do anything wrong, he just made a mistake. Think of how ridiculous it is to jail people and make them register as sex offenders foooor....touching someone's arm? Touching their side? It's stupid.

He committed assault, that happened 100% without question. If he had a sexual motive it was sexual assault but if we look just at the facts he admitted to he committed two assaults. If you make the mistake of setting an ambush to touch a stranger then do it again after they run into the street to get away from you then the criminal justice system has to deal with you. You don't get to do crimes, I'm sorry if you think that's ableist but people who can't abide by the laws of society do not belong in society one way or another.

The amount of ableism in this post is appalling. Once again, stop dehumanizing him. He doesn't belong in society because he struggles with concepts of personal space and proper social etiquette? Are you joking? Please be joking. That is absolutely disgusting and so fucking ableist I can't even begin to describe how offended I am.

[Des-Bal]

"Not ok" doesn't imply "sexual" though does it? There's still no evidence in this thread of sexual intent - the texts itself indicate some sort of crippling loneliness, which is a known precursor to a whole bunch of mental issues. The court may have other evidence, but there's nothing that implies "sex offender" in the actions thus far presented.

Some kind of mental problem maybe, and something that requires some type of intervention, but there seems to be no known sexual motive thus far presented.

Just that he's a man, and she's a woman, and he touched her against her will. That's all the evidence you require to believe it's sexual. It's certainly assault, but we're not seeing anything sexual about it thus far.

No combination of genders makes this not look like sexual assault to me. Every part of this pattern of events looks like pretty bog standard groping.

He literally didn't assault someone though. Accidentally grabbing someone somewhere and then letting go when they tell him to is not assault. He didn't attempt to touch her boob. It doesn't state that anywhere except in the "victim"'s side. I don't think you understand how social awkwardness or autism works. Actually, you definitely don't, because you wouldn't say that otherwise. You don't understand. None of you do except those who lived it, and you're refusing to listen to the people who have.

I just want to take a moment to appreciate the beautiful irony in saying "you don't know if you haven't lived it" directly after ignoring the victim's testimony.

[Des-Bal]

The amount of ableism in this post is appalling. Once again, stop dehumanizing him. He doesn't belong in society because he struggles with concepts of personal space and proper social etiquette? Are you joking? Please be joking. That is absolutely disgusting and so fucking ableist I can't even begin to describe how offended I am.

Boo-fucking-hoo he committed assault. If you can't stop yourself from committing assault then the solution is NOT that rules don't apply to you it's that you don't get to be in positions where you can hurt others.

[Lanoraie II]

"Not ok" doesn't imply "sexual" though does it? There's still no evidence in this thread of sexual intent - the texts itself indicate some sort of crippling loneliness, which is a known precursor to a whole bunch of mental issues. The court may have other evidence, but there's nothing that implies "sex offender" in the actions thus far presented.

Some kind of mental problem maybe, and something that requires some type of intervention, but there seems to be no known sexual motive thus far presented.

Just that he's a man, and she's a woman, and he touched her against her will. That's all the evidence you require to believe it's sexual. It's certainly assault, but we're not seeing anything sexual about it thus far.

No combination of genders makes this not look like sexual assault to me. Every part of this pattern of events looks like pretty bog standard groping.

He literally didn't assault someone though. Accidentally grabbing someone somewhere and then letting go when they tell him to is not assault. He didn't attempt to touch her boob. It doesn't state that anywhere except in the "victim"'s side. I don't think you understand how social awkwardness or autism works. Actually, you definitely don't, because you wouldn't say that otherwise. You don't understand. None of you do except those who lived it, and you're refusing to listen to the people who have.

I just want to take a moment to appreciate the beautiful irony in saying "you don't know if you haven't lived it" directly after ignoring the victim's testimony.

I literally don't care about her testimony because I've lived through much worse and also had the same exact thing happen to me before with a slightly younger autistic boy (12-14ish) who grabbed my butt to get my attention. All of you are ignoring his testimony because it doesn't fit your worldview, and ignoring the fact he's being jailed for touching her and not understanding social cues. Let me repeat, underline, bold that again so you understand it: He is being jailed for not understanding social cues and etiquette.

[Lanoraie II]

The amount of ableism in this post is appalling. Once again, stop dehumanizing him. He doesn't belong in society because he struggles with concepts of personal space and proper social etiquette? Are you joking? Please be joking. That is absolutely disgusting and so fucking ableist I can't even begin to describe how offended I am.

Boo-fucking-hoo he committed assault. If you can't stop yourself from committing assault then the solution is NOT that rules don't apply to you it's that you don't get to be in positions where you can hurt others.

It's not assault. There is no reason to look at it as assault. I highly doubt she was permanently scarred by some awkward kid grabbing her. And yes, the rules don't apply to him because he likely has a literal mental disorder. You don't throw children with severe down's syndrome in jail for masturbating in public. You shouldn't throw autistic kids in jail for a lack of social etiquette.

By your logic the theoretical blind man should also be kept away from society because there's a chance he could accidentally cop a feel of a woman or trip someone with his walking cane.

[Galloism]

"Not ok" doesn't imply "sexual" though does it? There's still no evidence in this thread of sexual intent - the texts itself indicate some sort of crippling loneliness, which is a known precursor to a whole bunch of mental issues. The court may have other evidence, but there's nothing that implies "sex offender" in the actions thus far presented.

Some kind of mental problem maybe, and something that requires some type of intervention, but there seems to be no known sexual motive thus far presented.

Just that he's a man, and she's a woman, and he touched her against her will. That's all the evidence you require to believe it's sexual. It's certainly assault, but we're not seeing anything sexual about it thus far.

No combination of genders makes this not look like sexual assault to me. Every part of this pattern of events looks like pretty bog standard groping.

It really doesn't. No sexual areas were touched, and it just doesn't fit the general groping aspect, particularly given what we know of the circumstances so far.

Again though, perhaps the court has additional evidence that neither you nor anyone else has presented.

Having arrested a few gropers, it just doesn't fit - gropers tend to have patterns of behavior beyond a single victim and tend to go for general sexual areas (and breasts actually aren't that common among the groping population - it's almost always either the crotchal region or the buttockal area). They also don't tend to communicate about their groping activity in regretful or contemplative terms, but moreso in bragging terms.

Again, it's fair to note we don't have all the evidence, but it's just as accurate to say he was convicted for being male as it is to say he was convicted for assault.

[Des-Bal]

It's not assault. There is no reason to look at it as assault. I highly doubt she was permanently scarred by some awkward kid grabbing her. And yes, the rules don't apply to him because he likely has a literal mental disorder. You don't throw children with severe down's syndrome in jail for masturbating in public. You shouldn't throw autistic kids in jail for a lack of social etiquette.

By your logic the theoretical blind man should also be kept away from society because there's a chance he could accidentally cop a feel of a woman or trip someone with his walking cane.

I repeat. There is no fucking evidence he has a mental disorder, the defense attorney told a pity story and you bought it hook line and sinker.

Accidentally touching or tripping someone isn't a crime in the absence of negligence. He is deliberately assaulting people.

[Fahran]

One question. If you touch someone in an area associated with sexuality, even without any sort of sexual intention, does that constitute sexual assault in the UK?

[Ostroeuropa]

It's one of the terms used to describe touch deprivation. Human beings need touch to remain mentally and physically healthy.

It doesn't really excuse putting your hand on a random person's waist. I do get that it's a social issue, but we should probably still uphold the law here.

As the article notes it can cause chronic mental and physical illnesses. I'd say it probably does excuse it when you view it as a necessity. The issue isn't the touch, it's that our society had allowed a hate movement to break it's basic interactions and internalized their contempt. This impact is chiefly against men due to how women have simultaneously demonized male touch, while also viewing male homosexuality as undesirable.

[Ostroeuropa]

One question. If you touch someone in an area associated with sexuality, even without any sort of sexual intention, does that constitute sexual assault in the UK?

It's down to the perception of the victim in UK law, which notably biases the system against men due to prejudice against them rather than anything concrete. Sort of like if we decided it was reasonable to arrest black people for "threatening" white people for existing nearby.