NATION

PASSWORD

Turkish military offensive in Syria/Rojava

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Which side you're sympathic towards?

Turkey
48
13%
Rojava/SDF
243
63%
Neither or unsure
92
24%
 
Total votes : 383

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8640
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:01 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
I think he means in terms of civil liberties and such which I would agree. But then again, the current Iraqi government passed a few gun restriction laws while Saddam's regime didn't even bother to regulate firearms in the slightest.


Eh? I think the Iraqi’s would prefer gun regulation over the way Sadaam handled problems.


Strangely enough some Iraqis think of Saddam's regime as the ''good ol days''.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Page
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10526
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:08 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Eh? I think the Iraqi’s would prefer gun regulation over the way Sadaam handled problems.


Strangely enough some Iraqis think of Saddam's regime as the ''good ol days''.


Which might have more to do with the state of perpetual war, the rise of Daesh, hundreds of thousands of dead people, and the other consequences of the war, not so much gun control.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20764
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:37 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Erdogan threatened to open the flood gates and send millions of refugees to Europe if they continue the hardline against Turkey. Fun times are ahead.

Damn, that's based and redpilled. Erdogan is really exuding big dick energy with this. cCc
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

User avatar
Page
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10526
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:44 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Erdogan threatened to open the flood gates and send millions of refugees to Europe if they continue the hardline against Turkey. Fun times are ahead.


Counter that threat with Turkey being expelled from NATO and Erdogan would fold.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

User avatar
Gormwood
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5372
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:47 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Gormwood wrote:You pretty much said Kurdish terrorism justified Turkey doing what it does best on minority groups.


You might want to source that claim.

Chernoslavia wrote:Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right? :roll:

Whataboutism of the Kurds in response to someone stating genocide is bad makes it look that way.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8640
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:16 am

Gormwood wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
You might want to source that claim.

Chernoslavia wrote:Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right? :roll:

Whataboutism of the Kurds in response to someone stating genocide is bad makes it look that way.


Wrong again.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=473245&p=36316225#p36316225
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4809
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:18 am

Page wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Erdogan threatened to open the flood gates and send millions of refugees to Europe if they continue the hardline against Turkey. Fun times are ahead.


Counter that threat with Turkey being expelled from NATO and Erdogan would fold.

Somehow, I don't think so; especially given the fact that Turkey has already taken every possible action that could be used to make a case for its expulsion from NATO. But NATO doesn't have a mechanism for expulsion, anyways, so this is a moot point.

User avatar
Vistulange
Minister
 
Posts: 3162
Founded: May 13, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vistulange » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:20 am

Look, guys, I get that the whole "Sultan Erdoğan" circlejerk is fun, Turkey should be kicked from NATO circlejerk is fun, it's all really fun and exciting to talk about while branding anybody who dares have the slightest different opinion from you to be shills and "listening to Turkish propaganda", but let's, for God's sake, get a few facts in and then the circlejerk can carry on as though nothing had happened.

"Turkey should be kicked from NATO".

Guys, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, formed by the North Atlantic Treaty - linked here - does not have an expulsion mechanism. Full stop. It only provides provisions for a member state to leave on its own accord with Article 13. Now, it is without a doubt that some people will either say or think "but Vistulange, you Turko-Erdoğan shill, we can just bypass Turkey, have a fait accompli and just not include Turkey in NATO's proceedings, you're just being pedantic". Well, yeah, that's possible, the long-term ramifications of doing so notwithstanding, but that's not really "kicking Turkey from NATO", is it? It's "bypassing Turkey when NATO affairs are involved". Different concepts, and if that's pedantry, so be it.

"Sultan Erdoğan [insert whatever here]".

The memery of the whole thing aside, I honestly can't take people who post in this manner in a non-humorous fashion seriously. It shows a serious lack of care and/or knowledge about Turkish and Ottoman political history, and a serious lack of knowledge regarding current Turkish politics. If you genuinely think that Erdoğan has some sort of iron hand over everything in the country akin to a genuine classical-era Ottoman sultan, I honestly can't help you. I can't force you to follow Turkish media and politics in depth. I can't teach you Turkish, either, as much as I'd love to.

I mean, I enjoy the meme of Erdoğan photoshopped in place of Selim III myself, but when that becomes an unironic arguing point, it gets a little cringey.

"Erdoğan kills Kurds, because it's his ideology".

See above. Oddly enough, nobody was talking "Erdoğan loves Kurds, because it's his ideology" back in 2014-2015 - when I was also active on this board, albeit as a far less mature person - when he was a conservative politican who was also very cosmopolitan along Muslim lines. I could go on to say that Erdoğan in fact isn't a "fundamentalist Islamist", but instead say that he's a very realist, pragmatic politician who simply changes alliances in relation to domestic politics as he deems necessary, but that's not really the point here, is it now? I linked two articles which were written relatively recently regarding the Kurdish issue in Turkey, and I am willing to bet that not even half of the people who are posting on this thread about Kurds, what they want, how they feel, etc. have even bothered to read them, or to ask me how they can access the articles I've linked, because that doesn't fit the easy way of slinging mud.

So really, what is the debate on this thread right now?
Turkish-Canadian, self-identified social democrat and "Neo-Kemalist", aspiring academician. Interested in nuclear proliferation, Turkish foreign policy, democratisation, and nation-building. Open to telegrams on all topics, feel free to ask me anything.

User avatar
Gormwood
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5372
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:23 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Gormwood wrote:
Whataboutism of the Kurds in response to someone stating genocide is bad makes it look that way.


Wrong again.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=473245&p=36316225#p36316225

Oh look, you conveniently omit an important sentence to spin it as him claiming the Kurds are superior to the Turks.

Chernoslavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Because I don't want a genocide to happen, that obviously means that I think Kurds are naturally better than Turks. What an absolute bullshit line of thinking. Not that I'd expect anything better, considering you're more concerned with bitching about "virtue signaling" than this atrocious invasion of Northern Syria at the hands of Erdogan's regime.


Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right? :roll:
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20764
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:25 am

Vistulange wrote:Look, guys, I get that the whole "Sultan Erdoğan" circlejerk is fun, Turkey should be kicked from NATO circlejerk is fun, it's all really fun and exciting to talk about while branding anybody who dares have the slightest different opinion from you to be shills and "listening to Turkish propaganda", but let's, for God's sake, get a few facts in and then the circlejerk can carry on as though nothing had happened.

"Turkey should be kicked from NATO".

Guys, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, formed by the North Atlantic Treaty - linked here - does not have an expulsion mechanism. Full stop. It only provides provisions for a member state to leave on its own accord with Article 13. Now, it is without a doubt that some people will either say or think "but Vistulange, you Turko-Erdoğan shill, we can just bypass Turkey, have a fait accompli and just not include Turkey in NATO's proceedings, you're just being pedantic". Well, yeah, that's possible, the long-term ramifications of doing so notwithstanding, but that's not really "kicking Turkey from NATO", is it? It's "bypassing Turkey when NATO affairs are involved". Different concepts, and if that's pedantry, so be it.

"Sultan Erdoğan [insert whatever here]".

The memery of the whole thing aside, I honestly can't take people who post in this manner in a non-humorous fashion seriously. It shows a serious lack of care and/or knowledge about Turkish and Ottoman political history, and a serious lack of knowledge regarding current Turkish politics. If you genuinely think that Erdoğan has some sort of iron hand over everything in the country akin to a genuine classical-era Ottoman sultan, I honestly can't help you. I can't force you to follow Turkish media and politics in depth. I can't teach you Turkish, either, as much as I'd love to.

I mean, I enjoy the meme of Erdoğan photoshopped in place of Selim III myself, but when that becomes an unironic arguing point, it gets a little cringey.

"Erdoğan kills Kurds, because it's his ideology".

See above. Oddly enough, nobody was talking "Erdoğan loves Kurds, because it's his ideology" back in 2014-2015 - when I was also active on this board, albeit as a far less mature person - when he was a conservative politican who was also very cosmopolitan along Muslim lines. I could go on to say that Erdoğan in fact isn't a "fundamentalist Islamist", but instead say that he's a very realist, pragmatic politician who simply changes alliances in relation to domestic politics as he deems necessary, but that's not really the point here, is it now? I linked two articles which were written relatively recently regarding the Kurdish issue in Turkey, and I am willing to bet that not even half of the people who are posting on this thread about Kurds, what they want, how they feel, etc. have even bothered to read them, or to ask me how they can access the articles I've linked, because that doesn't fit the easy way of slinging mud.

So really, what is the debate on this thread right now?

Finally, some good fucking commentary.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4809
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:25 am

Vistulange wrote:Look, guys, I get that the whole "Sultan Erdoğan" circlejerk is fun, Turkey should be kicked from NATO circlejerk is fun, it's all really fun and exciting to talk about while branding anybody who dares have the slightest different opinion from you to be shills and "listening to Turkish propaganda", but let's, for God's sake, get a few facts in and then the circlejerk can carry on as though nothing had happened.

"Turkey should be kicked from NATO".

Guys, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, formed by the North Atlantic Treaty - linked here - does not have an expulsion mechanism. Full stop. It only provides provisions for a member state to leave on its own accord with Article 13. Now, it is without a doubt that some people will either say or think "but Vistulange, you Turko-Erdoğan shill, we can just bypass Turkey, have a fait accompli and just not include Turkey in NATO's proceedings, you're just being pedantic". Well, yeah, that's possible, the long-term ramifications of doing so notwithstanding, but that's not really "kicking Turkey from NATO", is it? It's "bypassing Turkey when NATO affairs are involved". Different concepts, and if that's pedantry, so be it.

"Sultan Erdoğan [insert whatever here]".

The memery of the whole thing aside, I honestly can't take people who post in this manner in a non-humorous fashion seriously. It shows a serious lack of care and/or knowledge about Turkish and Ottoman political history, and a serious lack of knowledge regarding current Turkish politics. If you genuinely think that Erdoğan has some sort of iron hand over everything in the country akin to a genuine classical-era Ottoman sultan, I honestly can't help you. I can't force you to follow Turkish media and politics in depth. I can't teach you Turkish, either, as much as I'd love to.

I mean, I enjoy the meme of Erdoğan photoshopped in place of Selim III myself, but when that becomes an unironic arguing point, it gets a little cringey.

"Erdoğan kills Kurds, because it's his ideology".

See above. Oddly enough, nobody was talking "Erdoğan loves Kurds, because it's his ideology" back in 2014-2015 - when I was also active on this board, albeit as a far less mature person - when he was a conservative politican who was also very cosmopolitan along Muslim lines. I could go on to say that Erdoğan in fact isn't a "fundamentalist Islamist", but instead say that he's a very realist, pragmatic politician who simply changes alliances in relation to domestic politics as he deems necessary, but that's not really the point here, is it now? I linked two articles which were written relatively recently regarding the Kurdish issue in Turkey, and I am willing to bet that not even half of the people who are posting on this thread about Kurds, what they want, how they feel, etc. have even bothered to read them, or to ask me how they can access the articles I've linked, because that doesn't fit the easy way of slinging mud.

So really, what is the debate on this thread right now?

Can't really argue with this.

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8640
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:25 am

Gormwood wrote:

Oh look, you conveniently omit an important sentence to spin it as him claiming the Kurds are superior to the Turks.

Chernoslavia wrote:
Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right? :roll:


Imagine being so desperate that you continue to flat out lie about what I'm saying even after being proven wrong multiple times already. Quit your bullshit.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25898
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:31 am

Gormwood wrote:

Oh look, you conveniently omit an important sentence to spin it as her* claiming the Kurds are superior to the Turks.

Chernoslavia wrote:
Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right? :roll:


FTFY.

Chernoslavia wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Oh look, you conveniently omit an important sentence to spin it as him claiming the Kurds are superior to the Turks.



Imagine being so desperate that you continue to flat out lie about what I'm saying even after being proven wrong multiple times already. Quit your bullshit.


I mean, you can call people liars all you like, but your own post's words contradict the shit you're saying.
Last edited by Torrocca on Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8640
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:32 am

Torrocca wrote:quote="Gormwood";p="36316707"]

Oh look, you conveniently omit an important sentence to spin it as her* claiming the Kurds are superior to the Turks.

Chernoslavia wrote:
Yeah cuz it's not like the Kurds haven't been committing crimes against Turkish civies right? :roll:


FTFY.

Chernoslavia wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Oh look, you conveniently omit an important sentence to spin it as him claiming the Kurds are superior to the Turks.



Imagine being so desperate that you continue to flat out lie about what I'm saying even after being proven wrong multiple times already. Quit your bullshit.


I mean, you can call people liars all you like, but your own post's words contradict the shit you're saying.[/quote]

So do you concede that you're racist against ethnic Turks?
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Gormwood
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5372
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:36 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Oh look, you conveniently omit an important sentence to spin it as him claiming the Kurds are superior to the Turks.



Imagine being so desperate that you continue to flat out lie about what I'm saying even after being proven wrong multiple times already. Quit your bullshit.

Since you are apparently failing to register inconvenient parts...

This is what you're pretending to respond to:

Torrocca wrote:Because I don't want a genocide to happen, that obviously means that I think Kurds are naturally better than Turks.

And this is the crucial sentence that you block out and which changes the context of the strawman you claim was really there:

Torrocca wrote:What an absolute bullshit line of thinking.

You're the one reeking of desperation here. :^]
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25898
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:39 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
I mean, you can call people liars all you like, but your own post's words contradict the shit you're saying.


So do you concede that you're racist against ethnic Turks?


We both know that you don't actually think that my sarcastic response to your inane suggestion that I supposedly somehow think Kurds are superior to Turks was a racist jab against Turkish people. We both also know what you meant by blaming the crimes of the PKK in particular on the Kurds in general. Quit it with this bullshit.
Last edited by Torrocca on Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8640
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:45 am

Gormwood wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Imagine being so desperate that you continue to flat out lie about what I'm saying even after being proven wrong multiple times already. Quit your bullshit.

Since you are apparently failing to register inconvenient parts...

This is what you're pretending to respond to:

Torrocca wrote:Because I don't want a genocide to happen, that obviously means that I think Kurds are naturally better than Turks.

And this is the crucial sentence that you block out and which changes the context of the strawman you claim was really there:

Torrocca wrote:What an absolute bullshit line of thinking.

You're the one reeking of desperation here. :^]


I wasn't pretending, that's what I was responding to, but you decide to stick to your guns because you're mad that I proved you wrong. You're a liar and a bad one at that.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20764
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:47 am

Torrocca wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
So do you concede that you're racist against ethnic Turks?


We both know that you don't actually think that my sarcastic response to your inane suggestion that I supposedly somehow think Kurds are superior to Turks was a racist jab against Turkish people. We both also know what you meant by blaming the crimes of the PKK in particular on the Kurds in general. Quit it with this bullshit.

The YPG is the Syrian branch of the PKK, as many have already sourced in the first few pages of this thread, and has been confirmed in the past by the US State Department. Turkey has a legitimate grievance.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8640
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:48 am

Torrocca wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
So do you concede that you're racist against ethnic Turks?


We both know that you don't actually think that my sarcastic response to your inane suggestion that I supposedly somehow think Kurds are superior to Turks was a racist jab against Turkish people. We both also know what you meant by blaming the crimes of the PKK in particular on the Kurds in general. Quit it with this bullshit.


Oh now you were just being sarcastic :roll: My accusation is what was sarcastic, I was trying to use your own dog shit logic against you so that you'd see how insane your claims that I said genocide against the Kurds is okay.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8640
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:50 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
We both know that you don't actually think that my sarcastic response to your inane suggestion that I supposedly somehow think Kurds are superior to Turks was a racist jab against Turkish people. We both also know what you meant by blaming the crimes of the PKK in particular on the Kurds in general. Quit it with this bullshit.

The YPG is the Syrian branch of the PKK, as many have already sourced in the first few pages of this thread, and has been confirmed in the past by the US State Department. Turkey has a legitimate grievance.


Oh watch out! Disagreeing with Torrocca means you think the Kurdish people deserve genocide.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25898
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:52 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
We both know that you don't actually think that my sarcastic response to your inane suggestion that I supposedly somehow think Kurds are superior to Turks was a racist jab against Turkish people. We both also know what you meant by blaming the crimes of the PKK in particular on the Kurds in general. Quit it with this bullshit.

The YPG is the Syrian branch of the PKK, as many have already sourced in the first few pages of this thread, and has been confirmed in the past by the US State Department. Turkey has a legitimate grievance.


The YPG is the military arm of the PYD and only has some connections to the PKK; it isn't a branch of the PKK.

Furthermore, I don't really give much of a shit how the US State Department decides to designate a revolutionary group. Besides that, the PKK and YPG alone still don't constitute the Kurds in general, even if they were actually the same organization and the YPG was equally responsible for the PKK's uprising and attacks in Turkey.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Gormwood
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5372
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:53 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Since you are apparently failing to register inconvenient parts...

This is what you're pretending to respond to:


And this is the crucial sentence that you block out and which changes the context of the strawman you claim was really there:


You're the one reeking of desperation here. :^]


I wasn't pretending, that's what I was responding to, but you decide to stick to your guns because you're mad that I proved you wrong. You're a liar and a bad one at that.

You're seriously deluding yourself into believing you actually refuted the point I was making. But you do you. I should have seen it when your flag is some Internet Tom Green rip off who got a show cancelled by [adult swim] before it even started.
Last edited by Gormwood on Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25898
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:56 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
We both know that you don't actually think that my sarcastic response to your inane suggestion that I supposedly somehow think Kurds are superior to Turks was a racist jab against Turkish people. We both also know what you meant by blaming the crimes of the PKK in particular on the Kurds in general. Quit it with this bullshit.


Oh now you were just being sarcastic :roll:


Nah, I was being sarcastic from the beginning when I responded to your bullshit like so:

Torrocca wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
To Torrocca so long as they're Socialist, they're automatically better than the Turks, never mind the atrocities they committed themselves.


Because I don't want a genocide to happen, that obviously means that I think Kurds are naturally better than Turks. What an absolute bullshit line of thinking. Not that I'd expect anything better, considering you're more concerned with bitching about "virtue signaling" than this atrocious invasion of Northern Syria at the hands of Erdogan's regime.


Do take note how I was calling your ludicrous bullshit suggestion - that I somehow think that the Kurds were naturally better than the Turks - bullshit.

But, by all means, please keep falsely insinuating that I'm the racist one here after you decided to blame the entire Kurdish ethnicity for the PKK's attacks on civilians in Turkey as a justification for Turkey's invasion of Northern Syria.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20764
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:57 am

Torrocca wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The YPG is the Syrian branch of the PKK, as many have already sourced in the first few pages of this thread, and has been confirmed in the past by the US State Department. Turkey has a legitimate grievance.


1) The YPG is the military arm of the PYD and only has some connections to the PKK; it isn't a branch of the PKK.

Furthermore, I don't really give much of a shit how the US State Department decides to designate a revolutionary group. 2) Besides that, the PKK and YPG alone still don't constitute the Kurds in general, even if they were actually the same organization and the YPG was equally responsible for the PKK's uprising and attacks in Turkey.

1) Every expert on the matter and even the YPG's own fighters disagree. In fact, about half of its forces are Turkish Kurds

2) Perhaps not, but the Turkish state certainly should be worried about a state propping up on its southern border that is linked to a group trying to start a civil war in its territory.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25898
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:00 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
1) The YPG is the military arm of the PYD and only has some connections to the PKK; it isn't a branch of the PKK.

Furthermore, I don't really give much of a shit how the US State Department decides to designate a revolutionary group. 2) Besides that, the PKK and YPG alone still don't constitute the Kurds in general, even if they were actually the same organization and the YPG was equally responsible for the PKK's uprising and attacks in Turkey.

1) Every expert on the matter and even the YPG's own fighters disagree. In fact, about half of its forces are Turkish Kurds


I'd like a source on the YPG's own fighters saying they're part of the PKK. As it is, all I've seen from sources is the USA and Turkey saying the YPG's a terrorist organization, and those two states calling other groups terrorists has about as much weight to it as the vacuum of space.

2) Perhaps not, but the Turkish state certainly should be worried about a state propping up on its southern border that is linked to a group trying to start a civil war in its territory.


I don't really give a fuck about the Turkish state's concerns about an oppressed minority group trying to start a revolution either, tbqh. I do give a fuck about the fact that the PKK's been attacking civilians, though, and would certainly hope whatever future actions they take happen to avoid unnecessary bloodshed.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia, Ethel mermania, Fartsniffage, Google [Bot], Gormwood, Lord Dominator, Luminesa, Miami Shores, MSN [Bot], Nekonami, Salandriagado, The Blaatschapen, The Lone Alliance, Thepeopl, Vassenor, Zurkerx

Advertisement

Remove ads